Ranunculaceae Week: Thalictrum reniforme (?)_RKC_04_020511

[Ritesh Kumar Choudhary]

Dear all,

I had posted this plant long back on eFlora and it was identified as Thalictrum neurocarpum. Apologies for posting bad quality of photographs.

A/C to Tropicos, the accepted name is T. reniforme which is distributed in China, Bhutan and Nepal. I would be happy if the identity and its distribution in India is confirmed.

Name: Thalictrum reniforme Wall. (?)

Family: Ranunculaceae

Loc.: Churdhar Wildlife sanctuary, Himachal Pradesh (ca 1500m)

Date: August, 2010

Regards,
Ritesh.

[J.M. Garg]

Forwarding again for Id confirmation or otherwise please.

Some earlier relevant feedback (from earlier thread: https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix/browse_thread/thread/eb5ffdab199fd7ab?hl=en):

“Seems to be Thalictrum neurocarpum

--
Dr. Gurcharan Singh" 
                

Link from The Plant List:

http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/tro-27100525

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg (jmg...@gmail.com)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'
The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise): http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg. You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group: http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix (more than 1680 members & 75,000 messages on 31/7/11) or Efloraofindia website: https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/ (with a species database of more than 5000 species)

[J.M. Garg]

Forwarding again for Id confirmation or otherwise please.Some earlier relevant feedback (from earlier thread: https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix/browse_thread/thread/eb5ffdab199fd7ab?hl=en):“Seems to be Thalictrum neurocarpum

--
Dr. Gurcharan Singh"
                
Link from The Plant List:
http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/tro-27100525

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Ritesh Kumar Choudhary <rites...@gmail.com>
Date: 2 May 2011 08:13
Subject: [efloraofindia:68596] Ranunculaceae Week: Thalictrum reniforme (?)_RKC_04_020511
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg (jmg...@gmail.com)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'
The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise): http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg. You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group: http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix (more than 1740 members & 90,000 messages on 31/10/11) or Efloraofindia website: https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/ (with a species database of more than 6000 species).

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'. 

[Gurcharan Singh]

Resurfacing again for ID confirmation

Some earlier feedback

Ritesh ji  ....................................I had posted this plant long back on eFlora and it was identified as Thalictrum neurocarpum. Apologies for posting bad quality of photographs.A/C to Tropicos, the accepted name is T. reniforme which is distributed in China, Bhutan and Nepal. I would be happy if the identity and its distribution in India is confirmed.Name: Thalictrum reniforme Wall. (?)Family: RanunculaceaeLoc.: Churdhar Wildlife sanctuary, Himachal Pradesh (ca 1500m), Date: August, 2010

Me..................................................Some earlier relevant feedback (from earlier thread: https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix/browse_thread/thread/eb5ffdab199fd7ab?hl=en):“Seems to be Thalictrum neurocarpum 

                 
Link from The Plant List:
http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/tro-27100525

After further critical look it appears that plant may either be T. chelidonii or T. reniforme, and needs to be rechecked again. Unfortunately there seems to be lot of contradiction between FBI and eFl of China, former reporting greenish white flowers in reniforme; according to FBI flowers are larger in T. chelidonii (25 mm diam.; only 8-12 mm in T. reniforme), but according to eFl of China sepals are 9-13 x 6-10 mm in T. reniforme and 5-8 x 2.5-4 mm in T. chelidonii. Again eFl China reports achene stipe as 0.6 mm long (achene 4 mm) in T. chelidonii and 1.5 mm (achene 6 mm) in reniforme. FBI reports stipe as long as achene in both. The illustration of eFl. of China, however, shows much smaller achene with stipe almost as long in T. reniform, and much larger achene and very short stipe in T. chelidonii

http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=39879&flora_id=2

Also Fl. China reports 6-8 carpels in T. chelidonii and 15-20 in T. reniforme. FBI reports achenes numerous in T. chelidonii and only 6-8 in T. reniforme.

    But the two consistent characters which need to be verified are plants, leaves, pedicels glabrous in T. chelidonii and glandular-pubescent in T. reniforme. Also there are axillary buds in T. chelidonii but absent in T. reniforme 

T. chelidonii                                                                     T. reniforme

1. Plants Glabrous                                                              Plants glandular pubescent

2. Cauline leaves with axillary buds                                       Cauline leaves without axilary buds

3. Leaflets glabrous                                                             Leaflets glandular-pubescent beneath

4. Pedicel 4-10 mm long, glabrous                                        Pedicel 8-25 mm long, glandular pubescent

5. Sepals lilac or purple (FBI), pinkish (eFl China)                   Sepals greenish-white (FBI), reddish pink (eFl )

6. Flowers 25 mm dia (FBI), sepals 5-8 x 2.5-4 mm (eFl)         Flowers 8-12 mm dia (FBI), 9-13 x 6-10 mm (eFl)

7. Carpels 6-8, style shorter than ovary                                  Carpels 15-20, style slightly longer than ovary

8. Achenes numerous, stalk as long (FBI)                              Achenes 6-8 , stalk as long (FBI)

8. Achene 4 mm with 0.6 mm long stipe                                 Achene 6 mm long with 1.5 mm long stipe

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[J.M. Garg]

Hi, Ashutosh ji,

T. chelidonii or T. reniforme ?

May I request you to pl. have a look.

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

[J.M. Garg]

Hi, Ashutosh ji,

T. chelidonii or T. reniforme ?

May I request you to pl. have a look.

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Ritesh Kumar Choudhary <rites...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 at 08:13
Subject: [efloraofindia:68596] Ranunculaceae Week: Thalictrum reniforme (?)_RKC_04_020511
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

[Saroj Kasaju]

Elevation 1500m. is correct ?

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

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[Ashutosh Sharma]

Respected Garg ji,

I don't think this sp. to be T.reniforme nor T.chelidonii...

The plant here size looks quite smaller which should be much taller about 1meters in both species moreover sepal is not ovate in this sp. which should be otherwise atleast 3-5mm wide in both these sp. whereas its quite narrow in this case moreover stamens are having quite long filaments in this sp....

I checked for all 13 spp. of Thalictrum mentioned in Flora of HP but still is not able to find any proper match...

Best regards

Ashutosh Sharma

[JM Garg]

I find these close to images at Thalictrum foliolosum DC.

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Ritesh Kumar Choudhary <rites...@gmail.com>
Date: Monday, May 2, 2011 at 8:13:19 AM UTC+5:30
Subject: Ranunculaceae Week: Thalictrum reniforme (?)_RKC_04_020511
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>