Yet another discussion on Pedicularis! ABAUG2017/12

[Ashwini Bhatia]

The long-tube pedicularis species, which is very common here above 3000m, has confused me. I have followed the excellent discussion between Dr Singh, Tabish ji and other senior members and have at times concluded that the plants here are P. siphonantha but another doubt nags me and I start looking at the characteristics again.

Looking at the sketch uploaded by Tabish ji here, I would say that flowers of our plants are closer to P. punctata than P. siphonantha (tube length and its ratio with the calyx). I have included a photo of our flower (without calyx) on a ruler for comparison below. Accounting for the absence of calyx in the photograph, the tube length matches with figure A and so does the shape of the galea.

However, the lower lip on our flower is narrow (about 7-8mm) while P. punctata should have a broader, 15mm, lower lip.

The number of lobes on the lower leaves is higher than 6 (see photo). The petiole is long and not winged. This would suggest not P. punctata again.

Dr Singh had suggested P. hookeriana which was described briefly by Kletter and Kriechbaum here in their 2001 discussion of P. punctata but it was concluded that since the drawing in the 2009 paper shows shorter tube length, P. hookeriana was not a possibility. But the tube length of P. siphonantha in the drawing does not match our sample either.

Most of the images of P. siphonantha available online show a higher ratio of tube-length to calyx than our flowers here.

Our plant is gregarious at 3200m with many clumps of flowers. I have tried to include photos to show that.

I would request my seniors to look at this species again and advise. I am at a loss as to which source takes precedence. I apologise for requesting to open this discussion yet again and hope that you will find merit in doing so.

Thanks and regards,

Ashwini

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Ashwini ji. 

I think one of the most confusing genus. 

[J.M. Garg]

Forwarding again for any assistance in the matter please.

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- around 2800 members & 2,65,000 messages on 31.3.17) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 12,000 species & 2,50,000 images).

The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

[J.M. Garg]

Going by the hairiness of corolla & upto 6 number of pinnae pairs of basal leaves as per the keys and details at Critical Taxonomic Appraisal of Some Taxa of Pedicularis from Indian Himalayas Belonging to Section Siphonanthae by Arti Garg (2009) (pdf), I feel it may be more closer to Pedicularis punctata Decne.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Ashwini Bhatia <ash...@ashwinibhatia.com>
Date: 7 August 2017 at 10:18
Subject: Yet another discussion on Pedicularis! ABAUG2017/12
To: "indian...@googlegroups.com" <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: Gurcharan Singh <sing...@gmail.com>, Tabish <tab...@gmail.com>, Dinesh Valke <dinesh...@gmail.com>, "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- more than 2975 members & 3,00,000 messages on 25.7.18) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 12,000 species & 3,00,000 images of which 1,00,000 are directly displayed).

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks a lot, Arti ji.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Arti Garg
Date: 24 September 2018 at 13:24
Subject: Re: Fwd: Yet another discussion on Pedicularis! ABAUG2017/12
To: "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>

If you have dissected the flower and compared characters then you might be right in your conclusion as Pedicularis flowers are often deceptive in identification merely by photographs.

Arti Garg,

Botanical Survey of India

Central Regional Centre,

10 Chattham Lines

Allahabad 211002

[Ashwini Bhatia]

Thank you Mr Garg for pulling these Pedicularis species out for renewed discussion. Please convey my thanks to Arti ji for her expert comments. I will revisit my files and attempt a better understanding.

With best regards,

Ashwini

[mcleodwild]

I have again been looking at this species. Going through Yamazaki (A Revision of the Genus Pedicularis in Nepal, 1988), Pennel (The Scrophulariaceae of the Western Himalayas, 1944) and Arti Garg (Critical Taxonomic Appraisal of Some Taxa of Pedicularis from Indian Himalayas Belonging to Section Siphonanthae , 2009) I have reached the conclusion that the plant here is Pedicularis hookeriana.

Here is why:

1. The corolla-tube is roughly three times the length of the calyx (Pennell: 'distinguished from P. siphonantha Don by the corolla-tube being hardly three, instead of four times the length of the calyx'). I am attaching a new photo to show that.
2. Lower leaves long with more than 6 lobes (Yamazaki: leaves 1.5-7cm for hookeriana vs. 1-4cm for P. siphonantha; Pennell: Pinnae of leaf blades 6-12 pairs). The earlier photo of me holding a basal leaf shows the size and number of pinnae corresponding clearly to hookeriana)

3. Toothed galea (Pennell: 'anterior lobe acutely triangular-toothed on the anterior margins). See the attached photo.

Also the filaments are hairy on one pair of stamens on the upper parts only (Arti Garg: 'anterior pair hairy, hairs confined to upper half, posterior pair glabrous').

Apart from this, the size of the lower lip (with three lobes), presence of hair on the tube, lower lip and on the galea (upper lip) all point to P. hookeriana. The geographical distribution is also correct with the altitude (our plants are found around 3100m and slightly above).

Some studies have shown that both P. hookeriana and P. punctata belong to the P. siphonantha clade and experts may not consider these two as separate species in the future. But till then I am filing this under P. hookeriana.

My earlier email under Pedicularis sp. ABSEP2016/21 is also the same.

Thanks.

Ashwini

[J.M. Garg]

--
With regards,
J. M. Garg

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Ashwini Bhatia <ash...@ashwinibhatia.com>
Date: Mon 7 Aug, 2017, 10:18 AM
Subject: Yet another discussion on Pedicularis! ABAUG2017/12
To: indian...@googlegroups.com <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: Gurcharan Singh <sing...@gmail.com>, Tabish <tab...@gmail.com>, Dinesh Valke <dinesh...@gmail.com>, J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Ashwini ji.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to indiantreepi...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/e87d2d4f-b0e9-46a1-9c0a-bb161ab04cfc%40googlegroups.com.

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- more than 3,000 members & 3,00,000 messages on 23.8.18) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 13,000 species & 3,00,000 images of which more than 1,70,000 images are directly displayed).

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Ashwini ji, for id as P. hookeriana

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Ashwini Bhatia <ash...@ashwinibhatia.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2017 at 10:18
Subject: Yet another discussion on Pedicularis! ABAUG2017/12
To: indian...@googlegroups.com <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: Gurcharan Singh <sing...@gmail.com>, Tabish <tab...@gmail.com>, Dinesh Valke <dinesh...@gmail.com>, J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Ashwini ji, I agree with your id as P. hookeriana

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: mcleodwild <mcleo...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 at 13:26

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to indiantreepi...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/e87d2d4f-b0e9-46a1-9c0a-bb161ab04cfc%40googlegroups.com.

[Ashwini Bhatia]

Thank you very much Mr. Garg. I started on an email on P. pectinata a couple of weeks ago but while writing it had doubts again. I am still working on it and hoping to understand it soon.

Regards,

Ashwini