Kailash-Manasarovar Yatra::Strobilanthes atropurpureus NSJ-OCT 16/08

[Narendra Joshi]

Dear Members,

Strobilanthes atropurpureus for validation. Photo taken on the way to Gala from Sirkha (Uttarakhand) on Aug 14, 2016, height approx. 8000 feet.

--

With Regards,
Narendra Joshi

[J.M. Garg]

I do not think it matches with images at Strobilanthes atropurpureus Nees

Forwarding again for Id assistance please.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to indiantreepix+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to indian...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- around 2700 members & 2,40,000 messages on 31.3.16) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 11,000 species & 2,20,000 images).

The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Dr. Wood.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: John Wood
Date: 15 October 2016 at 22:40
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:253128] Kailash-Manasarovar Yatra::Strobilanthes atropurpureus NSJ-OCT 16/08
To: "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>

This is Strobilanthes bracteata (Nees) J.R.I.Wood and is the first photo I have seen of this species. It looks like Ipomoea pentstemonoides  (Not at all like S. atropurpurea) but differs in the pubescent corolla (easily visible), pubescent bracts (I can't really see the hairs but I think they are there) and the subequal leaves. I would be grateful for a more precise location if possible.

Regards

John Wood

---

From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Sent: 14 October 2016 12:22
To: efloraofindia
Cc: Narendra Joshi
Subject: Fwd: [efloraofindia:253128] Kailash-Manasarovar Yatra::Strobilanthes atropurpureus NSJ-OCT 16/08

 

[chrischa...@btinternet.com]

Most pleased that there is input from Dr Wood about Strobilanthes  - I have struggled with a number of these over the years!

But can he, as this species is not in 'The Plant List' as an accepted species nor in 'Enumeration of the Flowering Plants of Nepal' nor

'Flora of Bhutan' what the synonyms are and which spp. it was likely to have been thought to have been, until S.bracteata was recognised

and named?

Might he also tell us what the current thinking as to how to separate Pteracanthus from Strobilanthes - both genera are included in the 'Enumeration..

' above but only Stroblilanthes within 'Flora of Bhutan'?

[Narendra Joshi]

Many thanks Dr. Chris, Garg Ji, Dr. John Wood for your information.

Regards,

NS Joshi

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to indiantreepix+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to indian...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks a lot, Dr. Wood.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: John Wood
Date: 16 October 2016 at 21:31
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:253830] Re: Kailash-Manasarovar Yatra::Strobilanthes atropurpureus NSJ-OCT 16/08
To: "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>

Strobilanthes bracteata is the correct name for the plant treated as Strobilanthes quadrangularis in the Flora of British India. It was originally described as Goldfussia bracteata by Nees and is I think is treated under this name in the Enumeration of the Flowering Plants  of Nepal. This species does not occur in Bhutan or Sikkim but is restricted to western Nepal and neighbouring parts of Uttaranchel.

The genus Strobilanthes was divided into many segregate genera by Bremekamp and others but there is no morphological, palynological  or molecular support for these segregate genera. Certain groups can be discerned but they intergrade with others and the "key" character is often lost in obviously closely related species or occurs elsewhere. To give one example the genus Aechmanthera (A. gossypina = Strobilanthes tomentoa) is based partly on having an excurrent anther connective and partly on having 6-8-seeded capsules. There is nothing odd about its pollen. The excurrent anther connective is found in various other species - for example Strobilanthes echinata and its allies while 6-8-seeded capsules are found in various other species unrelated to those with the excurrent anther connective. None of the segregate genera, which include Pteracanthus, Sympagis, Aechmanthera, Goldfussia, Sericocalyx,  Aechmanthera and over 20  others, can be accepted. I regard these all as Strobilanthes as do others working on Strobilanthes such as Venu in India and Deng in China besides Terao (Japan) and my colleagues at Oxford.

I hope this is helpful.

Regards

John Wood

---

From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Sent: 16 October 2016 16:36
To: John Wood
Subject: Fwd: [efloraofindia:253830] Re: Kailash-Manasarovar Yatra::Strobilanthes atropurpureus NSJ-OCT 16/08

 

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to indiantreepix+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to indian...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- around 2700 members & 2,40,000 messages on 31.3.16) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 11,000 species & 2,20,000 images).

The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

[C CHADWELL]

Yes, this helps a great deal.

Just goes to show the complexities involved.  I imagine it is rather daunting for readers to appreciate that morphological

characteristics (even those examined at x10-20 magnification or higher) cannot always be found to attempt to distinguish

between species.

I am reminded of the numerous times during my involvement with attempting to identify plants in general and Himalayan ones

in particular (the latter over a period of 35 years) of encountering people who believe and have the expectation that plant identification

is a simple & easy process!

Also reminds us how invaluable it is to have those with familiarity and expertise in particular genera and families (who are willing to readily share it) - plus how much more study is required for Himalayan flora, sometimes for critical genera which need specialists to make sense of them.

And that for some species within some genera it is impossible to be sure which species a plant belongs to from a single, general image -

or even with the benefit of several close-ups.

But whether with a number of excellent close-up photos or a quality pressed specimens are available, some examples will be beyond us (at least

for the time being).

The more one learns the more one realises how much one does not know....   Exhibiting caution with identifying plants is invariable a wise approach.  Always mindful that the best one can say is "to the best of our current knowledge". 

Do not despair, challenges make life more interesting!   Or at those of us, like myself, weird enough to enjoy the challenge.  The world needs more eccentrics....

Best Wishes,

Chris Chadwell

81 Parlaunt Road 
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK

www.shpa.org.uk

---

From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>

To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: chrischa...@btinternet.com; Narendra Joshi <nare...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, 16 October 2016, 17:03

[Narendra Joshi]

Thanks Dr. Wood,

These Strobilanthes were located at several places between Sirkha (Altitude 8500 feet) to Gala (Altitude 7800 feet) On subsequent days of further trek at higher altitudes the flowers were not seen.  Only at a particular stretch these flowers were located. I will further send these details on a google map.

Thanks one again for ID.

With regards,

NS Joshi

[J.M. Garg]

It does not look like Strobilanthes bracteata (Nees) J.R.I. Wood as recently identified by Dr. Wood at link.

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Narendra Joshi <nare...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2016 at 22:25
Subject: [efloraofindia:253128] Kailash-Manasarovar Yatra::Strobilanthes atropurpureus NSJ-OCT 16/08
To: indiantreepix <indian...@googlegroups.com>

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to indiantreepi...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to indian...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks a lot, Dr. Wood.

--
With regards,
J. M. Garg

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: John Wood <>
Date: Tue, 19 Apr, 2022, 1:24 am
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:253128] Kailash-Manasarovar Yatra::Strobilanthes atropurpureus NSJ-OCT 16/08
To: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>

I think this is a more typical example of Strobilanthes bracteata - note the bracts. It is not S. atropupurea.

Please note that S. atropurpurea has a glabrous corolla, foliose bracteoles and calyx with distinct subequal linear calyx lobes - the corolla is usually distinctly ventricose.

Strobilanthes bracteata and S. pentstemenoides are closely related and have one calyx lobe longer than the others at least in fruit. S. pentstemenoides is strongly anisophyllous with glabrous corolla. S. bracteata is isophyllous with a pubescent corolla. The leaves of S bracteata are pubescent. S, pentememoides var dalhouseana also has hairy leaves whereas var pentstemenoides has glabrous leaves. The bracts of S. bracteata are less obviously scarious than those of S. pentstemenoides. 

Regards

John Wood

---

From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Sent: 18 April 2022 17:00
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: Narendra Joshi <nare...@gmail.com>
Subject: Fwd: [efloraofindia:253128] Kailash-Manasarovar Yatra::Strobilanthes atropurpureus NSJ-OCT 16/08