Leaf veins are important for id in closer species

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J.M. Garg

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Oct 14, 2019, 11:44:12 PM10/14/19
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Dear members,
Now that we have plenty of photographs in efi site, I find that leaf veins play an important role in id not only for general posts, but also for species which otherwise may look similar and confusing.
I generally try to check this aspect when I am not getting sure of the id otherwise.
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With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- more than 3,000 members & 3,00,000 messages on 23.8.18) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 13,000 species & 3,00,000 images of which more than 2,00,000 images are directly displayed on 30.8.19).

The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

J.M. Garg

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Oct 14, 2019, 11:46:45 PM10/14/19
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Also once we narrow down to a genus, it is quite possible to get species id even with only leaves, by matching the leaf veins.

J.M. Garg

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Oct 15, 2019, 2:37:54 AM10/15/19
to efloraofindia, Dr. Pankaj Kumar
Yes, Pankaj ji

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Pankaj Kumar <sahani...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2019 at 09:31
Subject: Re: [itpmods:13309] Fwd: Leaf veins are important for id in closer species
To: itpmods <itp...@googlegroups.com>


Not just leaf veins but leaf shape, apex, leaf stomata, they all play important role in identification of a plant species. How the tertiary veins end in a vein islet is are also important. But now a days people are in too much of hurry :). People talk about genes without even knowing their plants properly. Some big scientists advocate that we should start giving code names to the plants based on the difference in their DNA because there are not enough scientists in the world to identify plants.


On Tue, 15 Oct 2019 at 11:44, J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:
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**********************************************************************************************************************
Pankaj Kumar, Ph.D.
IUCN-SSC Orchid Specialist Group Asia

Office:
Orchid Conservation Section
Flora Conservation Department
Kadoorie Farm and Botanic Garden (KFBG) Corporation
Lam Kam Road, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong S.A.R., China
email: pku...@kfbg.org; sahani...@gmail.com
Phone: +852 2483 7128 (office - 8:30am to 5:00pm); +852 9436 6251 (mobile); Fax: +852 2483 7194

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J.M. Garg

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Oct 15, 2019, 2:38:31 AM10/15/19
to efloraofindia, Santhan P
Thanks, Santhan ji.

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Ponnutheerthagiri Santhan <ponsa...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2019 at 09:35
Subject: Re: [itpmods:13308] Fwd: Leaf veins are important for id in closer species
To: <itp...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>


That is true Garg ji, French institute Pondicherry used document that data, They will put a white paper over the leaf and do a pencil tracing to record actual vein pattern.
Thanks &regards
Dr. Santhan P
Industrial R&D expert, Plant taxonomist
Author of the Book "Trees of our Life" Botany, Chemistry, Medicine
9444813474/9620389349







On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 9:16 AM J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2019 at 09:16
Subject: Re: Leaf veins are important for id in closer species
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>


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J.M. Garg

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Oct 15, 2019, 2:39:27 AM10/15/19
to efloraofindia, Saroj Kasaju
Thanks, Saroj ji.

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2019 at 10:36
Subject: Re: [itpmods:13311] Fwd: Leaf veins are important for id in closer species
To: itpmods <itp...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>


Yes indeed Mr. Garg !

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju


On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 10:11 AM Pankaj Kumar <sahani...@gmail.com> wrote:
Here is one of my first articles I had worked on 2001 but published in 2003. Not an extraordinary article but gives an idea about how flair morphology can be used in plant identification.
I had just given my masters exam and was sitting ideal for 2 months, so please dont judge me with this article.
Thanks and regards
Pankaj

On Tue, 15 Oct 2019 at 12:05, Ponnutheerthagiri Santhan <ponsa...@gmail.com> wrote:
That is true Garg ji, French institute Pondicherry used document that data, They will put a white paper over the leaf and do a pencil tracing to record actual vein pattern.
Thanks &regards
Dr. Santhan P
Industrial R&D expert, Plant taxonomist
Author of the Book "Trees of our Life" Botany, Chemistry, Medicine
9444813474/9620389349







On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 9:16 AM J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2019 at 09:16
Subject: Re: Leaf veins are important for id in closer species
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>


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**********************************************************************************************************************
Pankaj Kumar, Ph.D.
IUCN-SSC Orchid Specialist Group Asia

Office:
Orchid Conservation Section
Flora Conservation Department
Kadoorie Farm and Botanic Garden (KFBG) Corporation
Lam Kam Road, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong S.A.R., China
email: pku...@kfbg.org; sahani...@gmail.com
Phone: +852 2483 7128 (office - 8:30am to 5:00pm); +852 9436 6251 (mobile); Fax: +852 2483 7194

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J.M. Garg

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Oct 15, 2019, 4:45:02 AM10/15/19
to efloraofindia
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: ushadi <micromi...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2019 at 13:16
Subject: Re: [itpmods:13317] Fwd: Leaf veins are important for id in closer species
To: itpmods <itp...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: Pankaj Kumar <sahani...@gmail.com>


Pankaj
So p foetida has the most stomata
I wonder why?

good use of Idle time ... I would say ideal ( pun intended) ha ha


Regards
Ushadi


On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 12:10 PM J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks, Pankaj ji.

On Tue, 15 Oct 2019 at 09:56, Pankaj Kumar <sahani...@gmail.com> wrote:
Here is one of my first articles I had worked on 2001 but published in 2003. Not an extraordinary article but gives an idea about how flair morphology can be used in plant identification.
I had just given my masters exam and was sitting ideal for 2 months, so please dont judge me with this article.
Thanks and regards
Pankaj

On Tue, 15 Oct 2019 at 12:05, Ponnutheerthagiri Santhan <ponsa...@gmail.com> wrote:
That is true Garg ji, French institute Pondicherry used document that data, They will put a white paper over the leaf and do a pencil tracing to record actual vein pattern.
Thanks &regards
Dr. Santhan P
Industrial R&D expert, Plant taxonomist
Author of the Book "Trees of our Life" Botany, Chemistry, Medicine
9444813474/9620389349






On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 9:16 AM J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2019 at 09:16
Subject: Re: Leaf veins are important for id in closer species
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>


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**********************************************************************************************************************
Pankaj Kumar, Ph.D.
IUCN-SSC Orchid Specialist Group Asia

Office:
Orchid Conservation Section
Flora Conservation Department
Kadoorie Farm and Botanic Garden (KFBG) Corporation
Lam Kam Road, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong S.A.R., China
email: pku...@kfbg.org; sahani...@gmail.com
Phone: +852 2483 7128 (office - 8:30am to 5:00pm); +852 9436 6251 (mobile); Fax: +852 2483 7194

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- more than 3,000 members & 3,00,000 messages on 23.8.18) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 13,000 species & 3,00,000 images of which more than 2,00,000 images are directly displayed on 30.8.19).

The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

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J.M. Garg

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Oct 15, 2019, 4:45:16 AM10/15/19
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---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Pankaj Kumar <sahani...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2019 at 13:25
Subject: Re: [itpmods:13318] Fwd: Leaf veins are important for id in closer species
To: ushadi <micromi...@gmail.com>
Cc: itpmods <itp...@googlegroups.com>


sorry "idle" :(

Thanks, Pankaj ji.

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**********************************************************************************************************************
Pankaj Kumar, Ph.D.
IUCN-SSC Orchid Specialist Group Asia

Office:
Orchid Conservation Section
Flora Conservation Department
Kadoorie Farm and Botanic Garden (KFBG) Corporation
Lam Kam Road, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong S.A.R., China
email: pku...@kfbg.org; sahani...@gmail.com
Phone: +852 2483 7128 (office - 8:30am to 5:00pm); +852 9436 6251 (mobile); Fax: +852 2483 7194

--
With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- more than 3,000 members & 3,00,000 messages on 23.8.18) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 13,000 species & 3,00,000 images of which more than 2,00,000 images are directly displayed on 30.8.19).

The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

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**********************************************************************************************************************
Pankaj Kumar, Ph.D.
IUCN-SSC Orchid Specialist Group Asia

Office:
Orchid Conservation Section
Flora Conservation Department
Kadoorie Farm and Botanic Garden (KFBG) Corporation
Lam Kam Road, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong S.A.R., China
email: pku...@kfbg.org; sahani...@gmail.com
Phone: +852 2483 7128 (office - 8:30am to 5:00pm); +852 9436 6251 (mobile); Fax: +852 2483 7194

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J.M. Garg

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Oct 15, 2019, 4:45:23 AM10/15/19
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---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Pankaj Kumar <sahani...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2019 at 13:41
Subject: Re: [itpmods:13319] Fwd: Leaf veins are important for id in closer species
To: ushadi <micromi...@gmail.com>
Cc: itpmods <itp...@googlegroups.com>


Respected Mam,
I am thinking about your question, which I didnt think during that IDLE time 18 years ago for obvious reasons....
Why will a plant need more stomata?
The basic answer should be to breathe more. 
Why this plant has to breathe more?
So that it can take more CO2.
Why a plant need to take more CO2?
So that it can release more water.
Why does this plant have to release more water?
Because the plant has glands all over the body which needs to be active and that can happen only by regular supply of water. Plant is herbaceous and hence during blooming time in summer it needs more water intake.
Was just thinking sitting at my office desk, in not so IDLE time.... :)
Dont mind please...

sorry "idle" :(

Thanks, Pankaj ji.

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**********************************************************************************************************************
Pankaj Kumar, Ph.D.
IUCN-SSC Orchid Specialist Group Asia

Office:
Orchid Conservation Section
Flora Conservation Department
Kadoorie Farm and Botanic Garden (KFBG) Corporation
Lam Kam Road, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong S.A.R., China
email: pku...@kfbg.org; sahani...@gmail.com
Phone: +852 2483 7128 (office - 8:30am to 5:00pm); +852 9436 6251 (mobile); Fax: +852 2483 7194

--
With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- more than 3,000 members & 3,00,000 messages on 23.8.18) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 13,000 species & 3,00,000 images of which more than 2,00,000 images are directly displayed on 30.8.19).

The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

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J.M. Garg

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Oct 15, 2019, 4:45:45 AM10/15/19
to efloraofindia
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Pankaj Kumar <sahani...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2019 at 13:42
Subject: Re: [itpmods:13320] Fwd: Leaf veins are important for id in closer species
To: ushadi <micromi...@gmail.com>
Cc: itpmods <itp...@googlegroups.com>


Sorry my english never improves sitting with so many chinese speakers around :( my fault anyways.

sorry "idle" :(

Thanks, Pankaj ji.

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**********************************************************************************************************************
Pankaj Kumar, Ph.D.
IUCN-SSC Orchid Specialist Group Asia

Office:
Orchid Conservation Section
Flora Conservation Department
Kadoorie Farm and Botanic Garden (KFBG) Corporation
Lam Kam Road, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong S.A.R., China
email: pku...@kfbg.org; sahani...@gmail.com
Phone: +852 2483 7128 (office - 8:30am to 5:00pm); +852 9436 6251 (mobile); Fax: +852 2483 7194

--
With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- more than 3,000 members & 3,00,000 messages on 23.8.18) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 13,000 species & 3,00,000 images of which more than 2,00,000 images are directly displayed on 30.8.19).

The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

--

J.M. Garg

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Oct 15, 2019, 4:45:55 AM10/15/19
to efloraofindia
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: ushadi <micromi...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2019 at 13:56
Subject: Re: [itpmods:13321] Fwd: Leaf veins are important for id in closer species
To: itpmods <itp...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: Pankaj Kumar <sahani...@gmail.com>



here are some very detailed papers on some families by botanists for current  plants



but most that I found very useful as a start was from Paleobiology department at the Smithsonian institution
Title   Manual of Leaf Architecture
its a manual  ISBN   0-9677554-0-9
one can easily download it
I thought I had saved the URL but cant find it in this pdf file
its very useful
I like these as a starting point
leaf area classification for leaf vein paleobotany.png
and
Leaf size compare ready figures for Paleobotany.png

and for leaf venation nomenclature
see next note.... continued
regards
Usha di

Thanks, Pankaj ji.

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--
**********************************************************************************************************************
Pankaj Kumar, Ph.D.
IUCN-SSC Orchid Specialist Group Asia

Office:
Orchid Conservation Section
Flora Conservation Department
Kadoorie Farm and Botanic Garden (KFBG) Corporation
Lam Kam Road, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong S.A.R., China
email: pku...@kfbg.org; sahani...@gmail.com
Phone: +852 2483 7128 (office - 8:30am to 5:00pm); +852 9436 6251 (mobile); Fax: +852 2483 7194

--
With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- more than 3,000 members & 3,00,000 messages on 23.8.18) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 13,000 species & 3,00,000 images of which more than 2,00,000 images are directly displayed on 30.8.19).

The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

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Oct 15, 2019, 4:46:10 AM10/15/19
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---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: ushadi <micromi...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2019 at 14:05
Subject: Re: [itpmods:13322] Fwd: Leaf veins are important for id in closer species
To: itpmods <itp...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: Pankaj Kumar <sahani...@gmail.com>


Leaf venation continued

for nomenclature of leaf veins  I find the Arctic Paleo group called Arctic Plant fossils page the most useful

Leaf venation nomenclature for paleo 2 regular leaves.png
and


Leaf venation nomenclature for paleo 1 round leaf.png=
==

and there is a fantastic page for tooth types of leaves


I find this very useful
regards
Usha di


Thanks, Pankaj ji.

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**********************************************************************************************************************
Pankaj Kumar, Ph.D.
IUCN-SSC Orchid Specialist Group Asia

Office:
Orchid Conservation Section
Flora Conservation Department
Kadoorie Farm and Botanic Garden (KFBG) Corporation
Lam Kam Road, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong S.A.R., China
email: pku...@kfbg.org; sahani...@gmail.com
Phone: +852 2483 7128 (office - 8:30am to 5:00pm); +852 9436 6251 (mobile); Fax: +852 2483 7194

--
With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- more than 3,000 members & 3,00,000 messages on 23.8.18) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 13,000 species & 3,00,000 images of which more than 2,00,000 images are directly displayed on 30.8.19).

The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

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J.M. Garg

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Oct 15, 2019, 4:46:19 AM10/15/19
to efloraofindia
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: ushadi <micromi...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2019 at 14:08
Subject: Re: [itpmods:13323] Fwd: Leaf veins are important for id in closer species
To: itpmods <itp...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: Pankaj Kumar <sahani...@gmail.com>


I found the URL for the Smithsonian Manual

Regards
Ushadi


Thanks, Pankaj ji.

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--
**********************************************************************************************************************
Pankaj Kumar, Ph.D.
IUCN-SSC Orchid Specialist Group Asia

Office:
Orchid Conservation Section
Flora Conservation Department
Kadoorie Farm and Botanic Garden (KFBG) Corporation
Lam Kam Road, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong S.A.R., China
email: pku...@kfbg.org; sahani...@gmail.com
Phone: +852 2483 7128 (office - 8:30am to 5:00pm); +852 9436 6251 (mobile); Fax: +852 2483 7194

--
With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- more than 3,000 members & 3,00,000 messages on 23.8.18) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 13,000 species & 3,00,000 images of which more than 2,00,000 images are directly displayed on 30.8.19).

The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

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J.M. Garg

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Oct 15, 2019, 7:28:47 AM10/15/19
to efloraofindia
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: ushadi <micromi...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2019 at 16:55
Subject: Re: [itpmods:13326] Fwd: Leaf veins are important for id in closer species
To: Pankaj Kumar <sahani...@gmail.com>
Cc: itpmods <itp...@googlegroups.com>


another one I like is this one

shows importance of good analysis of leaves
they look different in diff species

A revision of Spondias L. (Anacardiaceae)

in the Neotropics


its  a paper from NY BOTANICAL GARDEN RESEARCHERS that I admire a lot



Regards
Ushadi


On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 2:28 PM ushadi <micromi...@gmail.com> wrote:
Pankaj
don't be sorry
its fun in otherwise dull post puja humdrum hours
( not me though
 I am busy with an aunt who has dementia,
yet she comes up with some doozy stories and puns that her brain short circuits to,
and often gets lost in her own garden, that's worrisome, and takes up a lot of my time)

STill real world (not her imaginary one)  genuine  puns are always welcome


and how easy or difficult was it to peel the epidermis of a leaf?

I worried  about you during those uncertain days when news here shows the worst and keep it on a continuous loop

but why foetida esp among the three
why does it need more co2?
 is it because to be fetid it need to synthesize more oils to carry the odor?


BE WELL and BE HAPPY

Regards
Ushadi


On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 1:25 PM Pankaj Kumar <sahani...@gmail.com> wrote:
sorry "idle" :(

Thanks, Pankaj ji.

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--
**********************************************************************************************************************
Pankaj Kumar, Ph.D.
IUCN-SSC Orchid Specialist Group Asia

Office:
Orchid Conservation Section
Flora Conservation Department
Kadoorie Farm and Botanic Garden (KFBG) Corporation
Lam Kam Road, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong S.A.R., China
email: pku...@kfbg.org; sahani...@gmail.com
Phone: +852 2483 7128 (office - 8:30am to 5:00pm); +852 9436 6251 (mobile); Fax: +852 2483 7194

--
With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- more than 3,000 members & 3,00,000 messages on 23.8.18) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 13,000 species & 3,00,000 images of which more than 2,00,000 images are directly displayed on 30.8.19).

The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

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--
**********************************************************************************************************************
Pankaj Kumar, Ph.D.
IUCN-SSC Orchid Specialist Group Asia

Office:
Orchid Conservation Section
Flora Conservation Department
Kadoorie Farm and Botanic Garden (KFBG) Corporation
Lam Kam Road, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong S.A.R., China
email: pku...@kfbg.org; sahani...@gmail.com
Phone: +852 2483 7128 (office - 8:30am to 5:00pm); +852 9436 6251 (mobile); Fax: +852 2483 7194

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J.M. Garg

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Oct 15, 2019, 11:13:47 PM10/15/19
to efloraofindia, D.S Rawat
Yes, Rawat ji

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: D.S Rawat <drdsrawat...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2019 at 20:22
Subject: Re: [itpmods:13328] Fwd: Leaf veins are important for id in closer species
To: <itp...@googlegroups.com>


Garg Ji
Even trichomes (often incorrectly written as hair) can be of diagnostic value.
Attaching here a recent paper based on the work of one of my M.Sc. student.
I also endorse the statement by Dr Pankaj that number of morphological taxonomists is reducing which is a serious problem world over. However, efloraofindia is an attempt towards encouraging young minds towards morphological taxonomy, I believe.  

DSRawat Pantnagar
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr D.S. Rawat
Department of Biological Sciences, G.B. Pant University of Agriculture & Technology Pantnagar-263 145 Uttarakhand, INDIA
eflorapantnagar displaying wild flora of Pantnagar


On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 9:14 AM J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2019 at 09:13
Subject: Leaf veins are important for id in closer species
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>


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Saxifraga trichomes.pdf

J.M. Garg

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Oct 15, 2019, 11:14:34 PM10/15/19
to efloraofindia, Lalithamba Avadhanam
Thanks, Lalithamba ji.

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Lalithamba Avadhanam <alali...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2019 at 20:53
Subject: Re: [itpmods:13329] Fwd: Leaf veins are important for id in closer species
To: <itp...@googlegroups.com>


If we closely read FPM Gamble, he describes venation for almost all species; even venation in floral leaves is diverse if we observe closely; and as Rawat ji had pointed out indumentum is one more important character in identification; the sad thing is many of the students are not giving importance to morphology; it is a basic necessity for taxonomy, I wonder without  morphological knowledge how could they study taxonomy, in this digital camera age they prefer to compare the images to learn taxonomy, they thought it is a dead subject. 
thank you
regards
A.Lalithamba

On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 8:22 PM D.S Rawat <drdsrawat...@gmail.com> wrote:
Garg Ji
Even trichomes (often incorrectly written as hair) can be of diagnostic value.
Attaching here a recent paper based on the work of one of my M.Sc. student.
I also endorse the statement by Dr Pankaj that number of morphological taxonomists is reducing which is a serious problem world over. However, efloraofindia is an attempt towards encouraging young minds towards morphological taxonomy, I believe.  

DSRawat Pantnagar
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr D.S. Rawat
Department of Biological Sciences, G.B. Pant University of Agriculture & Technology Pantnagar-263 145 Uttarakhand, INDIA
eflorapantnagar displaying wild flora of Pantnagar


On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 9:14 AM J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2019 at 09:13
Subject: Leaf veins are important for id in closer species
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>


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Jayanta Kumar Jena

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Oct 16, 2019, 3:04:03 AM10/16/19
to indian...@googlegroups.com
Sir, as said by Sj. Garg Sir, leaf veins play vital role in id as in case of Ficus religiosa,Ficus arnotianna,Ficus rhumpii, with regards, jayanta k. jena

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ushadi

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Oct 16, 2019, 3:19:37 AM10/16/19
to efloraofindia, D.S Rawat, itpmods
Dr Rawat
Thanks
what a coincidence
one of the papers I like is also Saxifraga study

my question: why is saxifrage studied?   is it just coincidence
or is it a model of some sort of in Taxonomy and Morphological studies in Botany

My question may sound ignorant because I am not a botanist  by academic studies or by trade


Regards
Ushadi


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dr.rakesh Singh

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Oct 16, 2019, 10:42:07 AM10/16/19
to efloraofindia, D.S Rawat, itpmods
My  two bits ! 
Commonly a plant or tree has by numbers leaf on top flowers second  and fruits third ! 
Leaves leave behind a visual impression on sub-conscious , an over-all image which we store 
but do not care to describe ! 
Even from far , shape , size , gloss , hairs , undulation in wind , thickness ,petiole , petiole insertion , color ,venation , surface , tip.......
and 
close inspection will reveal intricate venation , types of hairs , glands on lamina , petiole , rachis , hairs on veins .......so many characters ! 
What is important is , we store many of these information subconsciously , based on it we tell one species apart from other ......we notice 
differences without exactly knowing what is different ! 
To me this is an important process !
 Right lobe first , left lobe later !!! 

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J.M. Garg

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Oct 16, 2019, 11:43:24 PM10/16/19
to efloraofindia, dr.rakesh Singh
Thanks, Rakesh ji 

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Pankaj Kumar

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Oct 16, 2019, 11:45:46 PM10/16/19
to itpmods, efloraofindia, D.S Rawat
There is a much simpler was to look at this.
Lets say there are two cars, same brand, same model, same colour.
The number is different - easiest way.
When number is same? oh, the seat colour is different.
When seat colour is same? One seat is leather and one seat is false leather.
When both seats are leather?  .......

So basically saying, sometimes, it becomes harder to make out the differences. So we go for details on minor scale. both seats are same but one is shiny leather and other is suede.

For example, we cant make out the difference easily between Tinospora cordifolia and T. sinensis, we say one has hairy petiole other has not.
It may not work for all other species, like Spiranthes sinensis comes in both hairy and glabrous form. So we look for other options like dna, may be stomata, may be structure of these hairs. Sometimes it is helpful, sometimes it is not so we keep exploring more and more options.


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ushadi

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Oct 17, 2019, 3:12:31 AM10/17/19
to itpmods, efloraofindia, D.S Rawat
pankaj
a very good way to look at

also most diagnostic algorithms // are inverted trees  work exactly as you described

thanks for explaining it in regular English

Regards
Ushadi


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