Shurb/Small tree from Arunachal Pradesh for ID

[Mithilesh K. Pathak]

Shrub, 2.5 - 3m tall. In Primary Forests. Alt. 2500m.
regards
M.K.Pathak

--
Dr. M.K. Pathak
Botanical Survey of India
P.O.: Botanic Garden
Howrah - 711 103
W.B. INDIA

[Mithilesh K. Pathak]

Dear Sir,
I wonder if my request for identification was circulated.
With regards
M.K.Pathak

[Satish Phadke]

Mithilesh ji
Your post was very much there in the inbox. I think very few members are conversant with the flora of Arunachal Pradesh. Probably that is the reason. I am sure you must have searched in local floras also.
Anyway we are also eager to the ID. It is good that members are posting images from different parts of the country.
Regards

--
Dr Satish Phadke

[Prashant Awale]

Dear Mithilesh ji,

I fully agree with Satish ji. In fact i am also eager to know the ID of this plant posted by you. I had star marked your post to make sure that i do not miss it.

Thanks for posting this interesting plant. Lets hope that ID get resolved.....

Regards
Prashant

[J.M. Garg]

Forwarding again for Id assistance please.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Mithilesh K. Pathak <mithi...@gmail.com>
Date: 13 February 2012 12:17
Subject: [efloraofindia:107935] Shurb/Small tree from Arunachal Pradesh for ID
To: Eflora of India <indian...@googlegroups.com>

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1

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Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'. 

[J.M. Garg]

A reply:

"It at first reminded me of Alniphyllum, but the inflorescence is wrong." from Nick Macer ji.

[J.M. Garg]

Forwarding again for Id assistance please.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Mithilesh K. Pathak <mithi...@gmail.com>
Date: 13 February 2012 12:17
Subject: [efloraofindia:107935] Shurb/Small tree from Arunachal Pradesh for ID
To: Eflora of India <indian...@googlegroups.com>

[Gurcharan Singh]

Forwarding again for ID

Distributed as Unidentified  Shurb/Small tree from Arunachal Pradesh 

Group discussion at

  Shurb/Small tree from Arunachal Pradesh for ID (google.com)  

[Gurcharan Singh]

Forwarding again for ID

Distributed as Unidentified  Shurb/Small tree from Arunachal Pradesh 

Group discussion at

  Shurb/Small tree from Arunachal Pradesh for ID (google.com)  

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Dr. M. K. Pathak <mithi...@gmail.com>
Date: Monday, February 13, 2012 at 12:17:24 PM UTC+5:30
Subject: Shurb/Small tree from Arunachal Pradesh for ID
To: Eflora of India <indian...@googlegroups.com>

[Saroj Kasaju]

Floral images are not clear for ID !

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

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[J.M. Garg]

Any idea about the family or genus?

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Mithilesh K. Pathak <mithi...@gmail.com>

Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 at 12:17
Subject: [efloraofindia:107935] Shurb/Small tree from Arunachal Pradesh for ID
To: Eflora of India <indian...@googlegroups.com>

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

[J.M. Garg]

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

[J.M. Garg]

Any idea about the family or genus? 

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Mithilesh K. Pathak <mithi...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 at 12:17
Subject: [efloraofindia:107935] Shurb/Small tree from Arunachal Pradesh for ID
To: Eflora of India <indian...@googlegroups.com>

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

[surajit koley]

Sir,

First, please let me state clearly that - please do not waste much of your time trying to find a satisfying result based upon my random guess!

My guess is, it may be a Rhynchotechum species of Generiaceae family.

Thank you.

With regards,

Surajit Koley

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[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Surajit ji.

I do not feel so as per Rhynchotechum

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

[surajit koley]

I did tell you SIr, it was my random guess, based on the inflorescence character!

Thank you.

With regards,

Surajit Koley

[surajit koley]

It maybe a member of Ericaceae, like Diplycosia or Gaultheria.

Thank you.

Best regards,

Surajit Koley

[J.M. Garg]

Forwarding again for Id assistance please.

Some earlier relevant feedback:

It maybe a member of Ericaceae, like Diplycosia or Gaultheria. Thank you. Best regards, Surajit Koley

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Mithilesh K. Pathak <mithi...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 at 12:17
Subject: [efloraofindia:107935] Shurb/Small tree from Arunachal Pradesh for ID
To: Eflora of India <indian...@googlegroups.com>

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

[Saroj Kasaju]

Leaf veins does not seem fit to match any sp. as suggested. However , doubtful about 

Gaultheria akaensis S.Panda & Sanjappa ?? Not sure. And flowers also look different!

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

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[surajit koley]

Agreed, SIr, no entry in the "FLora of British India", based on my suggestion, matches with the submitted photographs.

Thank you.

Best regards,

Surajit Koley

[surajit koley]

Please, do not waste your time by searching based on my id suggestions.

I spent a lot of time, all in vain, didn't even reach a remotely possible id. Even, I am not sure what I am looking at - flowers/buds or fruits?!

Thank you.

Best regards,

Surajit Koley

[surajit koley]

Finally, I think what I see in these pictures are not flowers (or buds) but early stage of samara hanging from annotinous (!!!) shoots, as can be seen in Ulmus.

But as per FBI, Ulmus have serrate to crenulate leaf margin.

For this species, please check any probability of Holoptelea integrifolia (Roxb.) Planch. I know the id would not tally with eFI uploads. I have only two things for my favour (1) KEW herbarium where leaf venation looks similar and (2) leaves coriaceous, glabrous or pubescent beneath (FBI).

If you don't agree it's okay with me. But I am done with it!

Thank you

With regards

surajit koley

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Surajit ji, for your efforts.

I do not think so. 

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--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

[surajit koley]

You are right Sir ji, but there are very few genera where perianth limbs are so many, as in Ulmus - https://www.flickr.com/photos/helicongus/7558255778

Thank you

With regards

surajit koley

[J.M. Garg]

A reply from Kate Armstrong ji;
"This is Dipentodon sinicus (Dipentodontaceae). See the Flora of China account here:
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200012789
It has been reported from NE India by Bhattacharyya and Johri (Fl. Pl. Taxon. & Phylogeny, 75. 1998)."

Thanks a lot, Kate ji.

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Mithilesh K. Pathak <mithi...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 at 12:17
Subject: [efloraofindia:107935] Shurb/Small tree from Arunachal Pradesh for ID
To: Eflora of India <indian...@googlegroups.com>

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

[Saroj Kasaju]

A great relief !

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

[surajit koley]

Thanks Sir, no wonder I failed!

Regards

surajit koley

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks a lot, Kate ji

--
With regards,
J. M. Garg

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Armstrong, Kate <>
Date: Fri, 6 Aug, 2021, 7:37 pm
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:107935] Shurb/Small tree from Arunachal Pradesh for ID
To: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>

Dear Garg ji,

You're very welcome - I'm glad this was helpful! I misidentified one of my own collections of Perrotettia (also Dipentodontaceae) from northern Myanmar as a Gaultheria. So, when I saw these "Gaultheria"/Dipentodon photos from Arunachal Pradesh, the taxon was familiar. Dipentodontaceae is, apparently, quite rare in India. I had thought that your photo might represent a new record, but it appears as though the species had already been reported in 1998 paper Bhattacharyya & Johri. Nonetheless, it's a very interesting find!

All the best,

Kate

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From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, August 6, 2021 2:20 AM
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: surajitkoley <surajitno...@gmail.com>; Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
Subject: Fwd: [efloraofindia:107935] Shurb/Small tree from Arunachal Pradesh for ID

 

You don't often get email from jmg...@gmail.com. Learn why this is important

 

[External E-Mail: Verify source before clicking on any links or opening any attachments.]

[J.M. Garg]

Further feedback from Dr. M Sanjappa:
If you see the note in Flora of China under Dipentodon sinicus (Dipentodontaceae). Reported from NE India by Bhattacharyya and Johri (Fl. Pl. Taxon. & Phylogeny, 75. 1998 but no specimens from there have been seen by the authors. There is a need for collecting the specimens for confirming the identity by Kate Armstrong. From photographs the serrated leaf margin is not clear, floral parts and fruit would also help in confirming the identity. All photographers should provide place (including District, Taluka or subdivision Lat-Long and altitude as it is now possible on android mobile phones) and date of photography and other field information. Here altitude is given.

[J.M. Garg]

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Sanjappa ji,
You mean to say that it is not Dipentodon sinicus ?

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: M Sanjappa 
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2022 at 17:45
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:107935] Shurb/Small tree from Arunachal Pradesh for ID
To: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>

Image downloaded from POWO

M.Sanjappa

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks a lot, Sanjappa ji.

It was posted by Late Dr. M.K. Pathak.

On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 at 19:07, M Sanjappa wrote:

No, I am no very sure. If it is Dipentodonton It could be a new one?! Ask the the member who posted it provide precise locality so that I can request a BSI Scientist to collect it.The Type image is also posted in POWO

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks a lot, Kate ji

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Armstrong, Kate 
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2022 at 22:29
Subject: RE: [efloraofindia:107935] Shurb/Small tree from Arunachal Pradesh for ID
To: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>

Hello Dr. Garg,

 

Thanks for your message about the Dipentodon images. I am not an expert in this (monotypic) genus and have actually never collected it before. Nonetheless, the photos in the previous email do match the description and illustration of Dipentodon sinicus in the Flora of China, and I would identify it as this species. To check if it could be a new species, I agree that specimens are necessary. Bruce Bartholomew (at California Academy of Sciences) was the co-author on the FoC Dipentodontaceae treatment and could probably advise better on whether this could be a new species or not… but as you pointed out, he would likely ask to see specimens.

 

All the best,

Kate

 

-----------------------------------------

Kate Armstrong, Ph.D.

Assistant Curator

Myanmar Program Coordinator

Institute of Systematic Botany

New York Botanical Garden

2900 Southern Boulevard

Bronx, New York, 10458

718.817.8173

 

karms...@nybg.org

www.nybg.org

 

 

From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2022 7:58 AM
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Fwd: [efloraofindia:107935] Shurb/Small tree from Arunachal Pradesh for ID

 

 

[External E-Mail: Verify source before clicking on any links or opening any attachments.]

Further feedback from Dr. M Sanjappa:

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks a lot, Sanjappa ji

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: M Sanjappa 
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 at 08:55
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:107935] Shurb/Small tree from Arunachal Pradesh for ID
To: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>

Thank you Dr Garg for the feed back. Kate Amstrong was right it should been seen by family expert and in such cases very difficult to depend on images to confirm id. 

Incidentally, Late Dr M K Pathak was my Ph D student. 

Best wishes

M.Sanjappa, Ph.D., FNA, FASc, FNASc, FKSTA  

INSA Honorary Scientist

Former Director, BSI, CSIR Emeritus Scientist & INSA Senior Scientist 

Mahatma Gandhi Botanical Garden 

University of Agricultural Sciences 

GKVK, Bengaluru 560 065 

Phone: 080 2333 0153 Ext.302

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg