ICANN 63 ME Space: call for topics

[Tijani BEN JEMAA]

Dear all,

As we did for ICANN 60 and ICANN 61, we are planning to organize a ME Space at ICANN 63.

Can you please provide your preferred topic to be addressed by the ME Space in Barcelona? I think we have several choices since we are now commenting on the preliminary report of the new gTLD subsequent procedures PDP working group (open round or consecutive rounds, Universal acceptance, Application fees, Applicant support, Community applications, etc…). We have also the Geographic names.

Also, we have the EPDP working now and we may decide to provide our opinion as a region on several parts to the EPDP (data collection, processing, transfer, retention, and access to non public data). So we have a very large range of topics that we can choose to address.

Please give your preference by Monday 10 September 23:59 UTC.

This the timeline:

04 - 10 September: Call for topics

11 September:        Announcement of the selected Topic

11 - 15 September: Call for drafting team members

16 September:        Announcement of the drafting team and starting of drafting the statement

26 September         1st draft of the statement published & Opening of the comment period

03 October:             Closing of the comment period

04 - 08 October:      Drafting of the final version

09 October:             Final draft published     

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Tijani BEN JEMAA

Executive Director

Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (FMAI)

Phone: +216 98 330 114

            +216 52 385 114

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[Tijani BEN JEMAA]

Dear all,

I’m so surprised to see no reaction to my call for topics for the ME Space at ICANN 63. Please respond and give your opinion even if it is « we should get ride of the ME Space ».

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Tijani BEN JEMAA

Executive Director

Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (FMAI)

Phone: +216 98 330 114

            +216 52 385 114

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[farzaneh badii]

Hi Tijani 

I think we should either pick several issues that we care about and do a statement or we should just pick one policy report  to comment on. 

For example, what issues directly relate  to our region and is a priority in geo names and epdp? 

Or we comment on one poilcy group (the sub pro for example). 

I like the former better since epdp is still under discussion. So we can just pick the topics across policy issues. I will during the weekend use your email and some issues from epdp and suggest an approach. 

If we see that there are too many issues of concern that we want to comment on and we wont have the time then we can prioritize and just comment on one policy topic. 

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Farzaneh

[Zied BOUZIRI]

Dear Tijani

Thank you for your initiative

I vote for "new gTLD subsequent procedures PDP" 

Best regards

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[Tijani BEN JEMAA]

Thank you Zied for your proposal.

The aim of the ME Space is to address topics under discussion at ICANN and provide the opinion of the region thereupon to the ICANN Board and the other concerned parties to make the voice of our region heard by the decision makers.

The initial report of the new gTLD subsequent procedures PDP WG WT 1 to 4 is now under public comment. So, it’s a perfect choice for us to address it. But this report include several very important topics such as Application fees, Community application, Applicant support, consecutive rounds vs open round, etc. If we address them all, we will not be able to go deeply in each of them and our statement will be superficial. I propose to choose only one topic that is the most important for our region. I propose the Applicant support since for the 2012 round very few applications from our region were submitted, and the applicant support program had very tough eligibility criteria that led to zero applicant supported while we had money to support up to 14 applicants.

So, I think we can have the applicant support as the topic for ICANN 63 ME Space.

What do you think?

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Tijani BEN JEMAA

Executive Director

Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (FMAI)

Phone: +216 98 330 114

            +216 52 385 114

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[Walid AL-SAQAF]

Dear Tijani and all,

I think that application support could indeed a relevant topic for the ME Space especially as it arises from an obvious need in the region.

Walid

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[farzaneh badii]

I agree 

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Farzaneh

[Nadira Alaraj]

Good choice Walid,

I support handling it for the ME Space. 

Nadira

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[farzaneh badii]

I agree with Tijani. Application criteria can be directly related to the region.

Farzaneh

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[Zied BOUZIRI]

Yes, I agree.  +1

[Rafik Dammak]

Hi,

no objection to the topic as it something we worked on at the Joint Applicant Support WG and still relevant. but is it possible to elaborate more about the approach here as this will happen few weeks after the end of the public comment on the initial report?

Best,

Rafik

www.bouziri.tn

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[Hadia El Miniawi]

Thank you Zeid and Tijani,

Indeed this is a relevant topic and I support it. Universal Acceptance is also a good topic however the applicant support program will have a more tangible outcome at the moment.

Kind Regards

Hadia  

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[Tijani BEN JEMAA]

Dear all,

The topic that got almost unanime support id « Applicant Support for the new gTLD subsequent procedure ».

Thank you for all who participated in the selection process.

We need now volunteers for a drafting team; please sent your intention to be on this team no later than 15 September. 

Have a nice day

 

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Tijani BEN JEMAA

Executive Director

Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (FMAI)

Phone: +216 98 330 114

            +216 52 385 114

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[Tijani BEN JEMAA]

Dear all,

Since none volunteered for the drafting team, I put my name and hope others will do the same before the deadline (Tomorrow).

 

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Tijani BEN JEMAA

Executive Director

Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (FMAI)

Phone: +216 98 330 114

            +216 52 385 114

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[Nadira Alaraj]

Hi Tijani,

Thank you for offering to be a pen holder as well,

I also volunteer even if my schedule at ICANN 63 is not organised yet.

Best wishes 

Nadira 

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[Tijani BEN JEMAA]

Thank you so much Nadira. We are now 2.

 

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Tijani BEN JEMAA

Executive Director

Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (FMAI)

Phone: +216 98 330 114

            +216 52 385 114

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[Zakir Syed]

Dear Tijani,

Even though, I wouldn't be attending ICANN 63 in person, but if I can be of any assistance remotely, please let me know and I would definitely work with you and Nadira, as part of the drafting team. Also, apologies for replying on this thread after the deadline has already passed, for the deadline fall over the weekend for me. Thanks.

Best,

Zakir

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[Tijani BEN JEMAA]

Dear all,

Now, the drafting team is composed of Nadira Alaraj and my self.

We will provide you with the statement first draft by 26 September.

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Tijani BEN JEMAA

Executive Director

Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (FMAI)

Phone: +216 98 330 114

            +216 52 385 114

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[Tijani BEN JEMAA]

Dear all,

Please find attached the first draft of the ME Statement for ICANN 63 that was developed by Nadira and myself.

Please provide your comments before 3 October 2018 at 23:59 UTC

[Zakir Syed]

Thank you Tijani,

Do we have a google doc version? Actually it would be easy to comment and provide feedback there and thn to organize.

Best,

Zakir

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[Nadira Alaraj]

Thank you Zakir,

In the following link you can find the statement and  all are welcome to comment either on this thread or in the document itself. 

If you are providing comments in the Google Doc, please start it with your name. 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hz_brkSh8YdQmlXJkFbgtYYxZ4QkjMurwslwyu7hPY0/edit?usp=sharing

Best,

Nadira

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[khatib hanan]

Dear Tijani,

Thanks to you and Nadira and to all who contributed  bring this document out.  however I have some questions : 

 what do you mean by this statement  : 

"We are aware of the failure of the Applicant Support Program (ASP) for the 2012 round that wasn’t efficient and didn’t permit to support any applicant. We also understand that it failed because the too tough eligibility criteria developed by the community were too tough under the pressure of those who always frighten us that the program will be gamed if we put flexible criteria."

1. who is the committee that put the tough eligibility criteria? and why?
   
2. who is us and who frighten us (you) ? why the program will be gamed? and who will put the criteria.
   
3. Should it be mention in this document if so, I think we need to clarity it ?

I am Confused! I hope you can clarify for me...

Thank very much

Best Regards

Hanan Khatib

IT Consultant 

 

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[Tijani BEN JEMAA]

Thank you Hanan for your questions.

1. who is the committee that put the tough eligibility criteria? and why?
2. who is us and who frighten us (you) ? why the program will be gamed? and who will put the criteria.
3. Should it be mention in this document if so, I think we need to clarity it?

For the 2012 round, a large part of the community were continuously complaining about the amount of the application fees ($185 000), and argued that the new gTLD program won’t be accessible to underserved regions and disadvantaged communities. After several months of loud complaint, the ICANN Board decided that the community form a working group to address a support program to help applicants who need assistance for applying for and operating a new gTLD. This WG (Joint Applicant Support « JAS ») designed the whole Applicant Support Program ‘ASP) including the tough criteria we spoke about in the statement. I was member of this WG.

The WG put such criteria because some members were always warning us that the ASP will be gamed by those who are not in need of assistance who may have access to support if the criteria are flexible.

I hope I answered you questions.

[khatib hanan]

Many thanks Tjani,  then can we change the paragraph to be ? 

"We are aware of the failure of the Applicant Support Program (ASP) for the 2012 round that wasn’t efficient and didn’t permit to support any applicant. We also understand that it failed because the too tough eligibility criteria developed by the community through its working group -the Joint Applicant Support (JAS)- were too tough under the pressure of those who always frighten them us that the program will be gamed by applicants who are not in need of assistance if the JAS we put flexible criteria."

Hanan Khatib 

IT consultant 

On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 3:39 PM khatib hanan <hkhat...@yahoo.com> wrote:

should be  >? 

Dear Tijani,

Thanks to you and Nadira and all who worked on this draft,   however I have a questions : 

 what do you mean by this statement  : 

"We are aware of the failure of the Applicant Support Program (ASP) for the 2012 round that wasn’t efficient and didn’t permit to support any applicant. We also understand that it failed because the too tough eligibility criteria developed by the community were too tough under the pressure of those who always frighten us that the program will be gamed if we put flexible criteria."

1. what community that put the tough eligibility criteria? and why?
   
2. who us and who frighten us (you) ? why the program will be gamed? and who will put the criteria,
   
3. should mention it here ?

I am Confused! I hope you can clarify for me...

Thank very much

Hanan Khatib

Mob      : + 962 799032012

 

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[Tijani BEN JEMAA]

Hanan,

Ok, after some minor modification, I propose the following:

We are aware of the failure of the Applicant Support Program (ASP) for the 2012 round that wasn’t efficient and didn’t permit to support any applicant. 

We also understand that it failed because of the too tough eligibility criteria developed by the Joint Applicant Support (JAS) working group under the pressure of those who always frighten JAS members that the program will be gamed (by applicants who are not in need of assistance) if the criteria is too flexible.

Wat do you think?

[khatib hanan]

Dear Tijani, 

That is perfect,   Thank you very much for considering my suggestion,  wish all luck,

Hanan Khatib

IT Consultant

Business process consultant

 

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[Rafik Dammak]

Hi,

Thanks for the work on the draft.

As input, I am not comfortable with the statement related to the condition and eligibility criteria for applicant support program. Yes the WG discussed the risk of gaming and thought about safeguard and accountability.  

The JAS WG acknowledged that having applicant support, focusing on the fees is not enough and that is why there was a discussion about other forms of support (several organizations offered to provide in-kind support that remained unfortunately unused). One issue is that the new gTLD program is by design complex and complicated putting too many barriers for prospective applicants. Easing the conditions for support won’t help as they still have to respond to (new?) AGB conditions. What is proposed as recommendations in the draft looks fine for me and a good start to think how support should cover the whole process or lifecycle of new. gTLD application but also responsibilize the applicants and making them autonomous too (not creating dependency) and make their gTLDs economically sustainable.

I would like this part being dropped: “We also understand that it failed because the too tough eligibility criteria developed by the community were too tough under the pressure of those who always frighten us that the program will be gamed if we put flexible criteria”. 

Finally, I think that without proper outreach and having implementation earlier undermined the program and didn't really give it any serious chance to succeed. 

I hope we can leverage the DNS forum to build more awareness when the time comes for new rounds but more work needs to be done. 

Best,

Rafik

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[Tijani BEN JEMAA]

Thank you Rafik for your comments.

The ASP failed because of several things such as Lack of outreach and awareness raising in the concerned regions, the risk to be excluded from the whole application process if the applicant fails to meet the ASP criteria, and also because of the tough criteria. Among the 3 applicants for support, 2 of them were dropped because they didn’t meet the eligibility criteria.

Flexible criteria doesn’t mean easy ones. They must be reasonable and affordable for applicants. Too tough criteria leads to the program failure as well as too easy ones.

You are right that the text wasn’t accurate as it says that the reason of the failure was the criteria. I modified it in this way:

We also understand that one of the reasons of the failure was the too tough eligibility criteria developed by the Joint Applicant Support (JAS) working group under the pressure of those who continuously argue that the ASP will be gamed by applicants not in need of support if the criteria are more flexible 

Does this make sens?

[Nadira Alaraj]

Thanks to Rafik for your sharp eye. I'm with keeping the statement after Tijani's edit it makes it clear that there are many other reasons for  the unsuccessful application support.   Keeping this sentence in the ME statement is important to  give the background.

I'm also happy Rafik for supporting my suggestion to have an awareness session on community support at the ME DNS forum. Your valuable insights is highly appreciated during ME DNS PC discussions.

[Zakir Syed]

Thank you Nadira,

Just had a few minor edits. Did that in the "suggestion" mode.

Dear all, the comments period per the time line shared by Tijani below, closes in a few hours from now.

Next steps are:

04 - 08 October:      Drafting of the final version

09 October:             Final draft published 

Best,

Zakir

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[Hadia El Miniawi]

Dear Nadira, Tijani and all,

I made a lot of edits to the google document (but i did not change the intended meaning), and put a couple of comments

I also suggest the following wording for the two paragraphs that raised concerns among some of the group

"We are aware of the failure of the Applicant Support Program (ASP) for the 2012 round that wasn’t efficient and resulted in no applicants being supported.

We also understand that one of the reasons of the failure was the tough eligibility criteria developed by the Joint Applicant Support (JAS) working group under the preconception that  a more flexible eligibility criteria will lead to the ASP being gamed by applicants not in need of support."

Thank you for developing this statement and waiting for your comments

Hadia

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[Nadira Alaraj]

Thank you Hadia for alll your edits and comments that we will work on responding, accepte or decline the edits.

Regarding the use of 'efficiency' that I tried to use earlier, Tijani did explain that it wasn't about the efficiency but about the tightness of requirements.

Also on the use of "preconceptions" because it wasn't the case, it was a matter of an enflunce on the JAS set criteria.

[Hadia El Miniawi]

Dear Nadira,

you mention "Regarding the use of 'efficiency' that I tried to use earlier, Tijani did explain that it wasn't about the efficiency but about the tightness of requirements."

I was not the one that added the word efficient (you can see my edits in green), it was there from before. I put "resulted in no applicants being supported" instead of "didn’t permit to support any applicant."

"Also on the use of "preconceptions" because it wasn't the case, it was a matter of an enflunce on the JAS set criteria."

you mention in the original statement "pressure of those who continuously argue that  a more flexible eligibility criteria will lead that the ASP will be gamed by applicants not in need of support" that means that there was a predetermined idea that the ASP could be captured, that is "preconception" was the case, whether this was through pressure or consensus, does it really matter?

I would also suggest proposing examples of a less tighter criteria as we argue that the tough selection criteria was one of the reasons of the failure of the program in the first round, what do you think? finally I would like to thank you, Tijani, Zakir and all the others for making this statement possible.

kindest Regards

Hadia

[Hadia El Miniawi]

[Nadira Alaraj]

Dear Hadia, Thank you for your comments they are noted.

This is a testing, 

Because I received 2 copies of Hadia's  same email which I think it must not be the case, because the MEAC-SWG list take care of the redundancy. @Hadia, did you get 2 copies of this as well?

Nadira

  

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[Hadia El Miniawi]

Thanks Nadira, apologies it seems that I sent the email twice

Hadia

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[Tijani BEN JEMAA]

Dear all,

The comment period for the ME Space statement closed on 3 October 23:59 UTC. I’m now working with Nadira to finalize the final draft to be discussed during the ME Space session due to take place in Barcelona on Monday 22 October 2018 10:30-11:45 in room number 116.

Nadira and myself, we would like to thank Hanan, Zakir, Rafik, Hadia and Manal who contributed in this drafting effort. 

When released, the statement will be sent to Fahd and Baher to be printed in as many copies as necessary for the attendees of the ME Space session.

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Tijani BEN JEMAA

Executive Director

Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (FMAI)

Phone: +216 98 330 114

            +216 52 385 114

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[Hadia El Miniawi]

Dear Tijani,

Thank you and Nadira for all the work, I can see the statement now in view only mode. I have made some comments yesterday some of which were taken into consideration however the most important ones were rejected. I find it unfair to the statement to reject the comments without any further discussion and would like to repose some of my suggestions for further discussion. Among the important parts that I think require reconsideration are the following

"• Applicants for support who do not meet the requirements of the ASP should be granted a sufficient period of time that does not unreasonably delay the program,  but allows them to pay the additional application fee and transfer to the normal application process. This is because many countries in the ME have in place international monetary transfer laws that control over the source of the money and how much and to whom to be transferred."

I have two comments with regard to the above statement. First if the applicants are able to transfer to the normal application program, why did they apply to the applicant support program in the first place, this looks like the manipulation that we are talking about later in the statement. Second, I don't understand the rest of the statement that speaks about the monetary laws, all countries have monetary laws and the source of the money is always required to be known and in all cases how does this relate to our statement.

With regard to the following part

"pre-application support, including longer lead times to create awareness, encouraging participation of insightful experts who understand relevant regional issues and potential ramifications on the related business plans, along with the tools and expertise on how to evaluate the business case, such as developing a market for a gTLD"

I believe that the above statement is totally unclear and needs further editing, which i tried doing earlier.

with regard to the following statement

"We also understand that one of the reasons of the failure was the tough eligibility criteria developed by the Joint Applicant Support (JAS) working group under the preconception of those who continuously argue that a more flexible eligibility criteria will lead to the ASP being gamed by applicants not in need of support."

who are " those who continuously argue " whom we are referring to? and why are we mentioning them (those unidentified people) in the statement?

Second if we are referring to tough eligibility criteria we need to either point out how the criteria was tough and thus resulted in very few applicants or mention the simpler criteria that we would like to see.

I have a few other comments, however I regard the above as the most important to be discussed.

thanks again

Kindest Regards

Hadia

 

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[Manal Ismail]

Dear Tijani ..

Allow me to start by thanking you and Nadira for the initiative and for choosing a topic that is relevant to the region .. and also thank everyone who has participated .. 

I do apologize for not being able to weigh in my views earlier.. I tried doing this in the google doc today and was not able to obviously because of the deadline .. So allow me to share my thoughts here and I do understand if you may not be able to accommodate this late feedback:

- regarding the bullet saying “the applied for gTLD must serve an underserved region and/or an underserved community wherever it is located.” I wonder what about an applicant from an underserved region wishing to apply for a gTLD targeting the global community not just a specific underserved region, why should we restrict this?

- on the bullet stating “Applicants for support who do not meet the requirements of the ASP should be granted a sufficient period of time that does not unreasonably delay the program, but allows them to pay the additional application fee and transfer to the normal application process.” I wonder why this should be allowed .. If applicants are able to pay the additional applicant fees why should they apply for the ASP at the first place? Isn’t this considered gaming the system?

- In case of string contention, I agree that the application that passed the support criteria and qualified for ASP may have the priority, but if both applications score equally, right? If yes, then I do suggest adding this explicit phrase ..

- also on the indicators, I agree that number of supported applications may be a factor to the success of outreach and awareness but we also need to add the number of successful gTLDs to be able to judge the success of the ASP ..

- I suggest adding “on the longer term” regarding a dedicated round exclusively for underserved region, and recommend it to be studied ..

- Finally, if you are flexible about time, I would suggest sharing a link or reference to the old strict criteria, for those who were not deeply involved in this program like myself to be able to provide further concrete input in addition to the excellent points you made on starting earlier and on other possible means of support such as technical or legal support that may be needed in addition to the financial support ..

Again, I thank you all, apologize for the late sending, and hope you may still find this useful ..

Kind Regards

-Manal 

Sent from my iPad

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[Tijani BEN JEMAA]

Thank you Hadia for your mail.

As soon as the topic was selected, a timeline was set up and we did everything in respect of this timeline. A call for volunteers for a drafting team, and none volunteered one day before the deadline. I then volunteered and Nadira volunteered too.

We worked on the statement before releasing it for comment (comment period: 26 September - 3 October)

We received comments and we interacted with all the comments before you commented at the very last moment of the comment period. Nadira and myself, we are now finalizing the statement now that the comment period is closed. The final draft will not be the final statement of the ME Space since it will be submitted to the Barcelona session of the ME Space for discussion, modification if any and adoption.

  

Tijani

[Tijani BEN JEMAA]

Thank you so much Manel, very smart as usual.

Nadira and myself will consider your comments below (even if they came after the comment period) while finalizing the statement.

For your information, here is the link to the eligibility criteria of the 2012 Applicant Support program: https://archive.icann.org/en/topics/new-gtlds/draft-applicant-support-criteria-10dec11-en.pdf 

Thank you for your efforts and your flexibility.

  

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Tijani BEN JEMAA

Executive Director

Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (FMAI)

Phone: +216 98 330 114

            +216 52 385 114

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[Hadia El Miniawi]

Dear Tijani,

First off I would like to reiterate that I do appreciate your work as well as Nadira's and all the others who participated in this. But with all due respect I did put my comments within the commenting period, that is not after the deadline and what was fair to the statement, is to have some sort of response to the comments, which did not happen. I mention in my earlier email that further discussion was expected and this is a mistake as no discussion what so ever happened. I only received an email from Nadira that she will look at the comments and accept or reject them as appropriate, however the comments are there to be discussed before accepting or rejecting them.

In all cases I thank you and Nadira again and reiterate my appreciation to your work and my agreement with most of it.

Kindest Regards

Hadia

[Chokri Ben Romdhane]

Congrats Nadira and Tijani for the great efforts, I'm sorry for missing the comment period, but globally I think that this the first statement that deal with a real need of the region.

friendly

Chokri

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[Nadira Alaraj]

Dear Hadia,

I would like to thank you again for your many valuable comments and edits that most of them included in the closed document in its beta version.

As Tijani wrote we are still working on the final draft.

As for opening the discussions after the closing period, it would be time consuming as we all busy with many other aspect even with other ICANN working groups.

The purpose the face to face ME space is to have an open discussions on the final draft and not to present it as the statement.  Those discussions by the community will come up with the statement that will be endorsed and submitted to the concerning party within ICANN. 

Personally, I see an interesting session if many discussion points are raised at ICANN ME space, because that will create a good atmosphere were more ideas could be generated and  we have a stronger statement. Adding such discussions will give better understanding of the statement itself by those attending the session.

I take this opportunity to encourage MEAC-SWG members who are planning to attend the meeting in person or remotely. To take note of their concerns when we release the final draft.

Best wishes,

Nadira 

[Hadia El Miniawi]

Dear Nadira,

Thank you and Tijani for all the hard work that you have put in this, I certainly appreciate the fact that you have both made this session possible and have given the space for such an important topic for the region to be discussed. I agree with your point with regard to the discussions and I am looking forward for the session itself in Barcelona.

Thank you and Tijani again

Kindest Regards

Hadia

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[Tijani BEN JEMAA]

Dear all,

Nadira Al Araj and myself, we tried to accommodate all the comments received and came up with the attached draft statement that will be discussed, modified if necessary and adopted in the ME Space session in Barcelona.

[Walid AL-SAQAF]

Dear Tijani and all,

This is fantastic work. I see that the statement is bold and comprehensive enough to serve its purpose. Apologies for not contributing but the flow of ideas was quite sufficient and rounded.

Sincerely,

Walid

On Tue, Oct 9, 2018 at 7:52 AM Tijani BEN JEMAA <tijani....@topnet.tn> wrote:

Dear all,

Nadira Al Araj and myself, we tried to accommodate all the comments received and came up with the attached draft statement that will be discussed, modified if necessary and adopted in the ME Space session in Barcelona.

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tijani BEN JEMAA

Executive Director

Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (FMAI)

Phone: +216 98 330 114

            +216 52 385 114

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[Hadia El Miniawi]

Dear Nadira & Tijani,

Thank you for the proposed statement.

Kindest Regards

Hadia 

 

On Tuesday, October 9, 2018, 7:53:01 AM GMT+2, Tijani BEN JEMAA <tijani....@topnet.tn> wrote:

Dear all,

Nadira Al Araj and myself, we tried to accommodate all the comments received and came up with the attached draft statement that will be discussed, modified if necessary and adopted in the ME Space session in Barcelona.

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[khatib hanan]

Dear All, 

It is great Job,   and I feel that the ideas is sequenced especially the  3rd paragraph. who ever worked on the document

you efforts is appreciated.

 

Hanan Khatib

IT Consultant

Business process consultant

 

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