Tsai Ing-wen thesis had no external examiner
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Michael Richardson
Apr 30, 2021, 7:18:07 PM4/30/21
to Michael Richardson
Greetings!
A stunning development in the Tsai Ing-wen thesis story, no external examination of thesis.
Michael Richardson
Luby Liao
Apr 30, 2021, 10:47:22 PM4/30/21
to Michael Richardson, i_love_taiwan, Forum NATPA
I did not have an external examiner either. When I got my degree from Washington University, St. Louis, MO, all three members of my thesis committee were from the Math Department of Washington University. According to Michael's logic, I too was suspicious of academic fraud. Tsai and I could not have the ability to pull off such academic fraud by ourselves. If there was academic fraud, it was universities' doing!
Please be logical! Please sue LSE and Washington University for academic fraud. After LSE and Washington University are found guilty, the secret of how Tsai Ing-Wen and Luby Liao pulled off this stunt should be disclosed. Cheers, Luby
Frank S T Hsiao
Apr 30, 2021, 11:39:12 PM4/30/21
to Luby Liao, Michael Richardson, i_love_taiwan, Forum NATPA
Sorry to jump in.
Yes, it is unusual if there is no external examiner (not “examination”), usually, there should be one out of five, in our university. But it can be one out of three, or none. Each university has its own rules and tradition, and so far as the graduate school says ok, than that is it.
What does Michael mean “no external examination of thesis”? What “external” are you talking about? External of what. And What kind of “external examination” are you talking about?
And why is it a “stunning development?” Apparently, Michael does not know anything about the “external examination.”
In any case, even if there is no “external examination” it is not a “stunning development” at all. That is a sensationalism. And even if it is a “stunning development,” that is none of Michael’s business. So far as LSE or any degree granting university is willing to confer the doctoral degree to anybody, you have no say with the university. That is the traditional academic independece.
After so much ado for nothing, if the LSE does not withdraw her degree or her thesis from the library, we can safely accept the decision of the LSE. This should put the nonsense to rest.
Frank Hsiao
Remember, Nash received his degree from Princeton by writing two pages of Nash Equilibrium, and Debreu received his degree from Berkeley by writing 28 pages of set theoretic general equilibrium theory. If you question why, either you read their thesis (if you can), or just ask the university why. Very simple. You even do not need to write thesis as such. Just present some published papers, you can receive the degree without “external examination.” Nothing is “stunning development.”
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jkea...@ms67.hinet.net
May 1, 2021, 2:00:18 AM5/1/21
to frank...@colorado.edu, Luby Liao, Michael Richardson, i_love_taiwan, Forum NATPA
LOL, I guess that, I will have to add my name to the list of those whose doctoral degree never had an external examiner; and in my experience of all the doctoral friends that I have known, they never had one; and of all the doctoral and also masters thesis committees that I have been on, there never was one.
Frank, as you say, each university has their own rules; you know that and many involved with universities also know it; but I don't think that Michael knows it. He is a writer and not that experienced on the different ways that universities work. Either that or the title has a little bit of the click bait aspect to it.
Interestingly enough, the BATA people are eating it up like they had discovered the Ark of the Covenant.
LOL That's for those that know BATA.
At the end of the day as Frank says, LSE is the gatekeeper, and it is still standing by its degree.
I am not holding my breath in that I expect any change.
Jerome
Frank, as you say, each university has their own rules; you know that and many involved with universities also know it; but I don't think that Michael knows it. He is a writer and not that experienced on the different ways that universities work. Either that or the title has a little bit of the click bait aspect to it.
Interestingly enough, the BATA people are eating it up like they had discovered the Ark of the Covenant.
LOL That's for those that know BATA. At the end of the day as Frank says, LSE is the gatekeeper, and it is still standing by its degree.
I am not holding my breath in that I expect any change.
Jerome
--- 本郵件來自HiNet WebMail ---
>>>>> Original Message <<<<<
From: frank...@colorado.edu
Sent Date: Sat,01 May 2021 11:39:07 Asia/Taipei
Subject: [iLoveTW] RE: [NATPA Forum] Tsai Ing-wen thesis had no external examiner
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Michael Richardson
May 1, 2021, 10:35:47 AM5/1/21
to Luby Liao, i_love_taiwan, Forum NATPA
Who is Tsai Ing-wen's "gatekeeper"? Some, like Jerome, insist it is LSE and anything they say goes. Yet, Tsai's degree is not from LSE but the University of London. Would the University not be the gatekeeper? LSE couldn't even award doctoral degrees in 1984, how can they be the gatekeeper?
As for the University of London, which can't decide if its Senate House Library ever got the thesis (first they said they never received it then they claimed it was lost during "restructuring" along with the acquisition data) it currently requires an external examiner for a viva examination. (see attached scan of UL regs for this school year).
I have been unable to locate the 1984 UL regs on viva examinations. Perhaps some of the academics on the list that seem to know so much more than me can help out.
A survey of other UK universities shows external examiners are indeed a standard practice.
Luby and Frank may not be stunned by the composition of Tsai's viva panel but I am.
-Michael
Susie S. Hsieh
May 1, 2021, 4:43:30 PM5/1/21
to richards...@gmail.com, Luby Liao, i_love_taiwan, Forum NATPA
Dear All, Aloha!
Yes, the European college system is quite different with that of the US in some ways.
When I was teaching at the National University of Lesotho in southern Africa, I was invited to serve as an external examiner for a German student from a German university. They needed only 3 examiners while for my own degree, I had 5 in the States.
Mahalo and take care! Susie (Sgu Yuan Hsieh)
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jkea...@ms67.hinet.net
May 2, 2021, 6:24:42 AM5/2/21
to Susie S. Hsieh, richards...@gmail.com, Luby Liao, i_love_taiwan, Forum NATPA
Susie,
1) I am sure they are different, and even a cursory glance at the different UK universities provided shows that the ones provided have different requirements and even different definitions of what makes an external examiner with some allowing for people within the university given the inability to find someone that fits the original bill. etc. etc.
2) That said, we then face the reality that while these may be the regs for external examiners in the present day, they have also been changing over the years and I doubt few could provide what were the "regs" back in 1984 when Tsai's thesis was presented. Could anyone produce the "regs" for their own university at that time?
3) Then there is the added factor of different nomenclature. Just as Europeans use the term CV (curriculum vitae) for what we call a resume, so here also we find differences, i.e. in the US we call the doctoral paper a dissertation while we reserve the word thesis for Masters level. In the UK they seem to do the opposite.
We also use the term dissertation committee and avoid any external/internal nomenclature.
4) You then also get to the different regs for the various universities; if I had to name who the 5 (and if I remember there were 5 on my committee, including the Director of my Dissertation) I could not. Whether the university has a record of all that, I would wonder, of course, mine goes back into the 1970s but the 1980s is closer to that than the present day and age. We had one strange regulation that one of the examiners had to be from a department totally outside of the Humanities, so we had a person from the Math Department who asked a series of irrelevant questions and made near irrelevant comments so that I do remember the other 4 were annoyed at him. But I guess that he did fit the bill of being external to the Humanities.
5) Then you have the problem that while the dissertaiton committee usually passes the dissertation but makes recommendations on changes that must be made, but I have rarely known anyone to go back and see if those changes were made in the final draft. Most presume it is done on an honor system between the student and the dissertation director. If the changes were later found to be not made, would the university revoke the degree?
6) This finally brings us to the question of who is the gatekeeper here, is it the LSE where the "thesis" was written or the UofL who at that time took responsibility for giving the degree since the LSE had not yet jumped through all the hoops required to make it an official gatekeeper? And of course we are talking about something that happened in 1984 when many of the present staff of each were probably not around.
I can easily see each trying to pass the buck, one saying well you i.e. (UofL) are technically the one that officially granted the degree so you explain any deficiencies, and the other saying that you i.e. (LSE) are the one responsible for keeping all these notes etc. and making sure that i's are dotted and t's crossed before passing it on to us.
Given all of the above, I would not be surprised if things could periodically fall through the cracks esp. in the case of LSE/UofL.
Michael is stunned. I am not. I have expressed this to him. And I would be willing to bet if someone went back through other dissertations/thesis of LSE at this period they would find other discrepancies.
And then we have the fact that the BATA people eat this up and are "shocked" but the NATPA people who are more experienced on the ins and outs of universities are not. As for ILT, I am not sure where all their backgrounds lay, but I suspect they also differ from BATA.
What Michael may need to note is that the rhetoric that works with BATA, does not quite fly with NATPA etc. That has been my observation.
I still see this as more a tempest in a teapot where the universities involved really don't want to go back and see if something did or did not fall through the cracks and if so, then which of them has to make any of the necessary adjustments or such if needed.
And there is no apparent quid pro quo as that which raised suspicions in the Ghadaffi case. On that, I didn't follow up, did the university go back and rescind the degree or not? I think it was left in accusations.
Ahh well, 1984, didn't Orwell write a novel on something like that?? LOL.
Jerome
1) I am sure they are different, and even a cursory glance at the different UK universities provided shows that the ones provided have different requirements and even different definitions of what makes an external examiner with some allowing for people within the university given the inability to find someone that fits the original bill. etc. etc.
2) That said, we then face the reality that while these may be the regs for external examiners in the present day, they have also been changing over the years and I doubt few could provide what were the "regs" back in 1984 when Tsai's thesis was presented. Could anyone produce the "regs" for their own university at that time?
3) Then there is the added factor of different nomenclature. Just as Europeans use the term CV (curriculum vitae) for what we call a resume, so here also we find differences, i.e. in the US we call the doctoral paper a dissertation while we reserve the word thesis for Masters level. In the UK they seem to do the opposite.
We also use the term dissertation committee and avoid any external/internal nomenclature.
4) You then also get to the different regs for the various universities; if I had to name who the 5 (and if I remember there were 5 on my committee, including the Director of my Dissertation) I could not. Whether the university has a record of all that, I would wonder, of course, mine goes back into the 1970s but the 1980s is closer to that than the present day and age. We had one strange regulation that one of the examiners had to be from a department totally outside of the Humanities, so we had a person from the Math Department who asked a series of irrelevant questions and made near irrelevant comments so that I do remember the other 4 were annoyed at him. But I guess that he did fit the bill of being external to the Humanities.
5) Then you have the problem that while the dissertaiton committee usually passes the dissertation but makes recommendations on changes that must be made, but I have rarely known anyone to go back and see if those changes were made in the final draft. Most presume it is done on an honor system between the student and the dissertation director. If the changes were later found to be not made, would the university revoke the degree?
6) This finally brings us to the question of who is the gatekeeper here, is it the LSE where the "thesis" was written or the UofL who at that time took responsibility for giving the degree since the LSE had not yet jumped through all the hoops required to make it an official gatekeeper? And of course we are talking about something that happened in 1984 when many of the present staff of each were probably not around.
I can easily see each trying to pass the buck, one saying well you i.e. (UofL) are technically the one that officially granted the degree so you explain any deficiencies, and the other saying that you i.e. (LSE) are the one responsible for keeping all these notes etc. and making sure that i's are dotted and t's crossed before passing it on to us.
Given all of the above, I would not be surprised if things could periodically fall through the cracks esp. in the case of LSE/UofL.
Michael is stunned. I am not. I have expressed this to him. And I would be willing to bet if someone went back through other dissertations/thesis of LSE at this period they would find other discrepancies.
And then we have the fact that the BATA people eat this up and are "shocked" but the NATPA people who are more experienced on the ins and outs of universities are not. As for ILT, I am not sure where all their backgrounds lay, but I suspect they also differ from BATA.
What Michael may need to note is that the rhetoric that works with BATA, does not quite fly with NATPA etc. That has been my observation.
I still see this as more a tempest in a teapot where the universities involved really don't want to go back and see if something did or did not fall through the cracks and if so, then which of them has to make any of the necessary adjustments or such if needed.
And there is no apparent quid pro quo as that which raised suspicions in the Ghadaffi case. On that, I didn't follow up, did the university go back and rescind the degree or not? I think it was left in accusations.
Ahh well, 1984, didn't Orwell write a novel on something like that?? LOL.
Jerome
--- 本郵件來自HiNet WebMail ---
>>>>> Original Message <<<<<
From: Susie S. Hsieh
Sent Date: Sun,02 May 2021 04:43:16 Asia/Taipei
Subject: [NATPA Forum] Re: [iLoveTW] Re: Tsai Ing-wen thesis had no external examiner
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jkea...@ms67.hinet.net
May 2, 2021, 9:21:49 PM5/2/21
to Taitzer Wang, ""Hsieh Susie S. 謝淑媛"", Richardson,Michael, Liao,luby, I Love Taiwan, NATPA-forum
Sorry Taitzer,
I do not have 2.5 hours to waste on a public hearing led by a KMT.
The easiest way to solve a problem is not to deny it, but to take it direct to the gatekeeper, and ask,
Did you or did you not give a degreee without a thesis? If not, then why is the degree listed on the records?
If you did give a degree without a thesis, then why? i.e. what is the quid pro quo?
OR, (drum roll here) did you grant a degree and for some reason something fell through the cracks in getting all recorded.
Michael is at least trying to do that.
Until that is done, everything else is just conspiracy theories.
From all that I see, the LSE and/or U of L, are still standing by the degree.
In the meantime, we have a lot of people running around like Chicken Little saying, "The sky is falling, the sky is falling."
And crying "Why doesn't someone do something?" Of course, all that they themselves do is talk. LOL
My answer, Go back to the gate keeper. When you get the gate keeper's answer, we will listen.
Jerome
I do not have 2.5 hours to waste on a public hearing led by a KMT.
The easiest way to solve a problem is not to deny it, but to take it direct to the gatekeeper, and ask,
Did you or did you not give a degreee without a thesis? If not, then why is the degree listed on the records?
If you did give a degree without a thesis, then why? i.e. what is the quid pro quo?
OR, (drum roll here) did you grant a degree and for some reason something fell through the cracks in getting all recorded.
Michael is at least trying to do that.
Until that is done, everything else is just conspiracy theories.
From all that I see, the LSE and/or U of L, are still standing by the degree.
In the meantime, we have a lot of people running around like Chicken Little saying, "The sky is falling, the sky is falling."
And crying "Why doesn't someone do something?" Of course, all that they themselves do is talk. LOL
My answer, Go back to the gate keeper. When you get the gate keeper's answer, we will listen.
Jerome
--- 本郵件來自HiNet WebMail ---
>>>>> Original Message <<<<<
From: Taitzer Wang
Sent Date: Mon,03 May 2021 03:14:22 Asia/Taipei
Subject: Re: Re: [NATPA Forum] [iLoveTW] Re: Tsai Ing-wen thesis had no external examiner
Hi All,
Two years ago, I heard a command on NATPA forum “Questioning Tsai’s Ph.D. thesis should stop here「就此打住」" with an arrogant authoritative tone. Today, these words still linger in my ears. Therefore, I am particularly sensitive to Asimov's words that I read today. He said, “The easiest way to solve a problem is to deny it exists.” — Issac Asimov (1920-1992)
These last couple of days, I was “stunned” by how some of my NATPA colleagues are still willing to write to explain things away about Tsai Ing-wen’s thesis problem (known as Thesis-gate) by creating unsubstantiated answers to self proclaimed questions. They’ve written hundreds of words wanting to tell “Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus”. They therefore have reasons to believe that “Nobody sees Santa Claus, but that is no sign that there is no Santa Claus. The most real things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see.” They all elect to ignore Andersen’s “The Emperor’s New Clothes” of 184 years ago. None of them wants to know there is also a kid in the story who knows to say “the Emperor has no clothes on."
At the same time, they all avoid the simple key question that all should ask: “Has anybody — including Tsai herself — ever seen Tsai Ing-wen’s legitimate Ph.D. thesis?” The answer is definitely “NO”. So, why not keep asking Tsai the same question?
I was also disappointed after having spent two and a half hours yesterday to watch on youtube video a public hearing on Tsai’s Thesis-gate but did not hear the emphasis of the key question: “Why hasn’t anybody seen Tsai Ing-wen's legitimate Ph.D. thesis — including herself?"
Here is the said public hearing for you to know what is currently going on in Taiwan concerning TIW’s Thesis-gate. The hearing took place on (Taiwan time) Friday, 4/30, presided by a KMT Legislator.
【全程影音】國民黨召開公聽會瞄準小英論文爭議 彭文正、賀德芬等人出席｜2021.04.30
There are quite a few scholars who spoke at the hearing, as well as government officials representing National Library, Ministries of Education, the Interior, and Transportation and Communication, who were there to answer questions.
The segment from ~28:30 to 37:00 is pertinent to the views of Drs. Luby Liao, Frank Hsiao, and Jerome Keating, who responded to the latest Richardson Report entitled “Tsai Ing-wen thesis had no external examiner” https://richardsonreports.wordpress.com/2021/04/30/indicted-newsman-dennis-peng-forces-discovery-from-prosecutor-of-president-tsai-ing-wens-secret-that-there-was-no-external-phd-thesis-examination/.
Taitzer 5/2
Taitzer Wang
May 2, 2021, 10:38:55 PM5/2/21
to Jerome Keating Ph.D., "Hsieh Susie S. 謝淑媛", Richardson, Michael, Liao, luby, I Love Taiwan, NATPA-forum
Hi All,
Two years ago, I heard a command on NATPA forum “Questioning Tsai’s Ph.D. thesis should stop here「就此打住」" with an arrogant authoritative tone. Today, these words still linger in my ears. Therefore, I am particularly sensitive to Asimov's words that I read today. He said, “The easiest way to solve a problem is to deny it exists.” — Issac Asimov (1920-1992)
These last couple of days, I was “stunned” by how some of my NATPA colleagues are still willing to write to explain things away about Tsai Ing-wen’s thesis problem (known as Thesis-gate) by creating unsubstantiated answers to self proclaimed questions. They’ve written hundreds of words wanting to tell “Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus”. They therefore have reasons to believe that “Nobody sees Santa Claus, but that is no sign that there is no Santa Claus. The most real things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see.” They all elect to ignore Andersen’s “The Emperor’s New Clothes” of 184 years ago. None of them wants to know there is also a kid in the story who knows to say “the Emperor has no clothes on."
At the same time, they all avoid the simple key question that all should ask: “Has anybody — including Tsai herself — ever seen Tsai Ing-wen’s legitimate Ph.D. thesis?” The answer is definitely “NO”. So, why not keep asking Tsai the same question?
I was also disappointed after having spent two and a half hours yesterday to watch on youtube video a public hearing on Tsai’s Thesis-gate but did not hear the emphasis of the key question: “Why hasn’t anybody seen Tsai Ing-wen's legitimate Ph.D. thesis — including herself?"
Here is the said public hearing for you to know what is currently going on in Taiwan concerning TIW’s Thesis-gate. The hearing took place on (Taiwan time) Friday, 4/30, presided by a KMT Legislator.
【全程影音】國民黨召開公聽會瞄準小英論文爭議 彭文正、賀德芬等人出席｜2021.04.30
There are quite a few scholars who spoke at the hearing, as well as government officials representing National Library, Ministries of Education, the Interior, and Transportation and Communication, who were there to answer questions.
The segment from ~28:30 to 37:00 is pertinent to the views of Drs. Luby Liao, Frank Hsiao, and Jerome Keating, who responded to the latest Richardson Report entitled “Tsai Ing-wen thesis had no external examiner” https://richardsonreports.wordpress.com/2021/04/30/indicted-newsman-dennis-peng-forces-discovery-from-prosecutor-of-president-tsai-ing-wens-secret-that-there-was-no-external-phd-thesis-examination/.
Taitzer 5/2
Taitzer Wang
May 3, 2021, 9:08:26 AM5/3/21
to Jerome Keating Ph.D., "Hsieh Susie S. 謝淑媛", Richardson, Michael, Liao, luby, I Love Taiwan, NATPA-forum
Hi Jerome,
You might not know, but all TIW’s numerous problems have been created by her own self, no doubt. As outsiders, let’s minimize her problems to a single one: "where is the beef”?
A lie is a lie. What does it have to do with whoever is leading a public hearing about inquiry of President TIW’s committing lies? What's wrong with it for me to spend my own 2.5 hours on such an important hearing to find out what other people are saying? Why is it a waste of time? Do you rather for me to tell you all the same nonsensical guessing that you et al. have been telling others? I guess not.
And, I’m afraid that I have to say — eat your own words — the following two statements of yours are for sure what others should like to say to people like you. LOL:
“. . . . And crying "Why doesn't someone do something?" Of course, all that they themselves do is talk.” and "My answer, Go back to the gate keeper. When you get the gate keeper's answer, we will listen.”
Since you yourself have never "taken it to ‘gatekeeper' and ask” as you would like others to do, your continuous pretentious talk about “gatekeeper” does not hold water, however you try to justify it.
And what do you mean by "From all that I see, the LSE and/or U of L, are still standing by the degree”? The fact is that you don’t even know who have officially said what; otherwise, you would have long rushed to tell and convince people who are engaged in Thesis-gate investigation. Tell me when you do. I'm eager to listen.
Taitzer
jkea...@ms67.hinet.net
May 3, 2021, 11:22:10 AM5/3/21
to Taitzer Wang, ""Hsieh Susie S. 謝淑媛"", Richardson,Michael, Liao,luby, I Love Taiwan, NATPA-forum
Yes Virginia there is a gate keeper, the gate keeper is the one who gives the degrees and makes all judgments on whether they pass or not. I know that some people can't get it into their heads but that is reality. Of course, wannabe gatekeepers would rather take their conspiracy theories to the world than ask the real gatekeeper.
So for some two years now we have had to listen to this crap over and over again.
That is why I don't want to waste my time on it and that is what I said. If anyone else wants to waste their time on it, be my guest.
My answer is simple; if you convince the gatekeeper, you convince me.
If you can't convince the gatekeeper or are afraid to even confront the gatekeeper, don't bother me and try to drag me into your conspiracy theories.
As I recall some people went to the UK and tried to get a "revealing, tell it all" press conference and the press had little time of the day for them. So they come back and try to dump their stuff on us.
A lie is a lie? The only lie I see here is that the LSE thru Uof L said it gave a valid Ph.D. degree, and yet some deny it.
Some wannabe gatekeepers say it is fake, because they have a conspiracy theory that contradicts that. Tell me another one.
I repeat, Convince the gatekeeper, you convince me.
If you can't convince the gatekeeper, don't bother me.
I am sure that there are many on the forum that feel the same way.
Two years is an awful long time to have to listen to this crap.
Jerome
So for some two years now we have had to listen to this crap over and over again.
That is why I don't want to waste my time on it and that is what I said. If anyone else wants to waste their time on it, be my guest.
My answer is simple; if you convince the gatekeeper, you convince me.
If you can't convince the gatekeeper or are afraid to even confront the gatekeeper, don't bother me and try to drag me into your conspiracy theories.
As I recall some people went to the UK and tried to get a "revealing, tell it all" press conference and the press had little time of the day for them. So they come back and try to dump their stuff on us.
A lie is a lie? The only lie I see here is that the LSE thru Uof L said it gave a valid Ph.D. degree, and yet some deny it.
Some wannabe gatekeepers say it is fake, because they have a conspiracy theory that contradicts that. Tell me another one.
I repeat, Convince the gatekeeper, you convince me.
If you can't convince the gatekeeper, don't bother me.
I am sure that there are many on the forum that feel the same way.
Two years is an awful long time to have to listen to this crap.
Jerome
Sent Date: Mon,03 May 2021 12:16:59 Asia/Taipei
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] [iLoveTW] Re: Tsai Ing-wen thesis had no external examiner
Luby Liao
May 3, 2021, 2:04:43 PM5/3/21
to Taitzer Wang, Jerome Keating Ph.D., Hsieh Susie S. 謝淑媛, Richardson, Michael, I Love Taiwan, NATPA-forum
Taitzer wrote:
For us who are not involved in legal inquiry of the Thesis-case we should not say more than we know.
What I know is that nobody has ever seen TIW’s legitimate Ph.D. thesis...
Some questions for Taitzer:
- Who decides whether her thesis is legitimate? Clearly not LSE, or UofL, or even the courts.
Is it you and your cohort? - It is logically impossible for anyone to know that nobody has ever seen TIW’s Ph.D. thesis.
Please explain how you know as you claimed.
Cheers, Luby
Taitzer Wang
May 4, 2021, 9:16:45 AM5/4/21
to Liao, luby, Jerome Keating Ph.D., "Hsieh Susie S. 謝淑媛", Richardson, Michael, I Love Taiwan, NATPA-forum
Long time no talk. Nice to hear from you.
A couple of weeks ago I found out that to this date after more than a year you are still not forwarding my mails to your forum I-Love-Taiwan to ILT readers because of my position against TIW’s deceptive handling of her Thesis-gate problems. What a hidden suspension policy you have! That’s OK as it’s your personal forum.
Thank you for your questions this time just the same.
My answer: Tsai IW (seriously) and Jerome (jokingly) are the two persons you are willing to trust the answers to your questions. Ask them.
Taitzer 5/4
Taitzer Wang
May 4, 2021, 5:31:07 PM5/4/21
to Jerome Keating Ph.D., "Hsieh Susie S. 謝淑媛", Richardson, Michael, Liao, luby, I Love Taiwan, NATPA-forum
Hi Jerome,
You say you don’t want to be bothered on the forum(s). For one of the few who recently communicated with you, I wanted to set things straight for readers’ understanding — your forum letters actually bothered me first, not the other way around.
Let me clarify: I responded to your group mails including several e-addresses, the time order of which is: Michael Richardson —> Luby Liao —> Frank Hsiao (I don’t know why this name is missing from this thread of mails now) —> Jerome Keating —> Susie Hsieh —> Jerome Keating —> Taitzer Wang . . . . .
So here you see, not only you, but forum members as well (including silent majorities) had already been “bothered" one way or another by five writers before I participated in the discussion.
I take personal and forum mails differently: If I do not want to hear the objections of any forum members, I would elect not to write to the forum to arouse their objections; rather, I would write personal letters to my forum friends that will always make me feel concurred (Haven’t you noticed that forum good friends are not discussants. They are flatterers. And they always know the use of cliche “I can’t agree with you more.")
On the other hand, once I write on the forums, I always welcome responses from readers. I always have a chance to respond to their objections or simply ignore them by choice. I wouldn’t feel bothered as you do. Forums are in the public domain; if I don’t want to be bothered, I know to stay away from them.
Let me repeat the two points I’ve said recently I am interested in:
(1) To me, your “gatekeeper" talk did not hold water, when you first talked about it nearly two years ago, it does not now, and it never will — as long as it’s only your "talk the talk”, but not your "walk the walk".
(2) When you have identified the name of the UL officer who awarded the Tsai IW PhD in 1984, please let me know. I have always wanted to hear this news, and I believe that other curious forum readers also want to know.
All in all, forums are in the public domain; those that don’t want to be bothered by different opinions should stay away from them.
Taitzer 5/4
Luby Liao
May 4, 2021, 11:29:45 PM5/4/21
to Taitzer Wang, Jerome Keating Ph.D., Hsieh Susie S. 謝淑媛, Richardson, Michael, I Love Taiwan, NATPA-forum, ctjh...@fas.harvard.edu
Unlike Taitzer, I have never been bothered by Jerome's posts. On the contrary, I enjoy and learn from them.
Incidentally, Jim's post showed how strongly he had been bothered by your posts.
Other people appreciate Jerome's contributions as well. For example,
From: Huang, C.-T. James <ctjh...@fas.harvard.edu>
Date: Mon, May 3, 2021 at 11:53 AM
Subject: Tsai Ing-wen thesis had no external examiner
To: jkea...@ms67.hinet.net <jkea...@ms67.hinet.net>, Taitzer Wang <tai...@gmail.com>
Cc: ""Hsieh Susie S. 謝淑媛"" <susieh...@gmail.com>, Richardson,Michael <richards...@gmail.com>, Liao,luby <luby...@gmail.com>, I Love Taiwan <i_love...@googlegroups.com>, NATPA-forum <natpa...@googlegroups.com>
Can’t agree more on what Jerome said: “Two years is an awful long time to have to listen to this crap.” The balance between reading useful discussion and hearing time-wasting crap will determine when one should continue with the subscription.
Jim
He is not alone, as this post from our friend Pinto shows.
On Fri, Apr 2, 2021 at 4:47 AM 'Ping' via NATPA Forum <natpa...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Go away, Taitzer! Enough of this nonsense already!
Ping Hou
-----Original Message-----
From: Taitzer Wang <tai...@gmail.com>
Sent: Fri, Apr 2, 2021 5:30 am
Subject: [NATPA Forum] 死馬當活馬醫 Treating a dead horse as if it were still alive
--
Click to read story and view He - Lin press conference
Cheers, Luby
Frank S T Hsiao
May 4, 2021, 11:54:16 PM5/4/21
to Luby Liao, Taitzer Wang, Jerome Keating Ph.D., Hsieh Susie S. 謝淑媛, Richardson, Michael, I Love Taiwan, NATPA-forum, ctjh...@fas.harvard.edu
Dear all:
Count me in. I always appreciate Jerome’s insightful and apt comments and essays.
Frank Hsiao
Well, somebody could not smell and see where is beef. As Jerome said, it is just in front of you.
From: natpa...@googlegroups.com <natpa...@googlegroups.com>
On Behalf Of Luby Liao
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