Control points editor / Line detection / Projection of a single image

[Abrimaal]

Build 2016:

The line find routine detects horizontal lines in the images, but they are listed as vertical. It causes problems with straightening of panoramas.

Panorama editor window:

When I want to move a control point, in about 30% cases a new point is added instead. Is there any difference in the mouse click between moving existing points and adding new ones? I guess the behaviour depends on lucky clicking a single pixel on the screen, what is not easy. Proximity area was introduced in computer games in the 90s, to set the difficulty level of shooting enemies and being shot by them. This could be considered when moving and adding control points in the panorama editor.

Unexpected auto-zooming when moving (adjusting) points. I could understand if the window was auto-zoomed every time or never, but it happens unexpectedly. The window could be resized by the mouse wheel or keys +/-

The same refers to displaying the fine zoom small square. Sometimes it is displayed, sometimes not.

To change projection of a single image and save it as "panorama".

Detecting horizontal lines or adding them manually, as well as vertical ones could create a perfect equirectangular grid, independently of the lens and projection, at least in the desired area of the image.

This can be used for adjustment of the projection and perspective of single images (eg. previously stitched panoramas in other programs, that did not save editable project files). It works with two images, but it doesn't work with a single image - the button Create panorama is inactive.

[David W. Jones]

On 04/18/2016 05:39 PM, Abrimaal wrote:
> *Build 2016: *

>
> The line find routine detects horizontal lines in the images, but they
> are listed as vertical. It causes problems with straightening of panoramas.

I have the same issue. Throws my workflow off because now I have to go
to the list of control points, sort them by type, then delete the
horizontal lines that show large errors. And when I look at them in the
images, some of them are clearly horizontal lines, not vertical lines at
all. Also, it will sometimes find extremely short vertical lines, like
lines only a few pixels long.

2015 build didn't have these problems.

Now, I am one of the people who has always wondered why the process that
finds vertical lines couldn't also be adapted to somehow find horizontal
lines. (Conceptually, just rotate the image in memory, run the
'vertical' line find; mark those found lines as 'horizontal' lines, then
rotate image back if needed for continued processing.) Is the new
linefind also searching for horizontal lines? If so, it's not nmaking
the horizontal lines it finds into horizontal lines.

--
David W. Jones
gnome...@gmail.com
wandering the landscape of god
http://dancingtreefrog.com

[Bruno Postle]

On 19 April 2016 08:53:33 BST, "David W. Jones" wrote:
>
> Now, I am one of the people who has
> always wondered why the process
> that finds vertical lines couldn't also be
> adapted to somehow find horizontal
> lines.

It can, and the same code in the lens correct GUI tool finds lines in all directions.

But in Hugin, horizontal lines are rarely very useful. For a normal panorama, the only line that will ever be horizontal is the horizon at sea. Whereas there are often lots of objects that are exactly vertical and parallel.

--
Bruno

[David W. Jones]

Lots of my panoramas include the horizon at sea. It was certainly be
faster to have linefind generate horizontal links compared to me having
to go through at add them manually.

But the present situation where it finds what are clearly horizontal
lines yet labels them as vertical lines makes it pretty useless. It used
to do a great job finding vertical lines. Now it finds lots of
horizontal lines, labels them as vertical lines, then optimization
proceeds to generate a lovely panorama rotated 90 degrees so it runs
vertically rather than horizontally.

[Carlos Eduardo G. Carvalho (Cartola)]

Once I thought that a good function would be to select what kind of CP we wish when using the Edit CP functionality at the Fast Panorama Preview window. If we could specify if we wish regular CPs, horiz lines, vert lines or just lines it would be great. For lines we might have to select the desired image too. BTW, I already thought that it could create points only on visible images.

My 5 cents of suggestions.

Carlos E G Carvalho (Cartola)
http://cartola.org/360
http://www.panoforum.com.br/

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[Bruno Postle]

This sounds like you have a bug to report.

--
Bruno

[T. Modes]

Am Dienstag, 19. April 2016 05:39:01 UTC+2 schrieb Abrimaal:

Build 2016:

The line find routine detects horizontal lines in the images, but they are listed as vertical. It causes problems with straightening of panoramas.

linefind searches only for vertical line. Either the orientation of your images does not match (wrong rotation information) or you rotated the images in Hugin.
If you don't provide more information, it is impossible to fix it.

To change projection of a single image and save it as "panorama".

Detecting horizontal lines or adding them manually, as well as vertical ones could create a perfect equirectangular grid, independently of the lens and projection, at least in the desired area of the image.

Using horizontal and vertical lines to rectify an image works only for rectilinear projection. In all other projections this make more trouble than it helps, so it is not independently form the projection.
 

This can be used for adjustment of the projection and perspective of single images (eg. previously stitched panoramas in other programs, that did not save editable project files). It works with two images, but it doesn't work with a single image - the button Create panorama is inactive.

This is possible, but not on the assistant tab. Use the stitcher tab.
 

[David W. Jones]

On 04/25/2016 04:08 AM, T. Modes wrote:

> Am Dienstag, 19. April 2016 05:39:01 UTC+2 schrieb Abrimaal:
>

> *Build 2016: *

>
> The line find routine detects horizontal lines in the images, but
> they are listed as vertical. It causes problems with straightening
> of panoramas.
>
> linefind searches only for vertical line. Either the orientation of your
> images does not match (wrong rotation information) or you rotated the
> images in Hugin.
> If you don't provide more information, it is impossible to fix it.

I (David) will see about putting together a ZIP file of raw images,
images converted using RawTherapee, and the resulting PTO after Hugin's
linefind finds horizontal lines and identifies them as vertical lines.

I have never rotated an image in Hugin. I do that when developing raw
files (if needed).

I think I have a batch from this past Sunday where all were shot in
portrait orientation and all displayed properly as portrait in
RawTherapee AND in Hugin. Yet Hugin's linefind found a number of what it
called vertical lines (usually with large error values when I look at
the control point list) that are actually horizontal lines when I look
at them in the control points windows.

FWIW, I'm using the Hugin from Debian Testing, which they list as
version 2016.0.0~rc2+dfsg2. About Hugin reports 2016.0.0.3b4e2790cb90.

Note: I am not the original poster who mentioned this problem. I first
noticed it when I shot a single-row panorama, all images in landscape
mode, and Hugin rotated the entire panorama 90-deg counter clockwise
into a vertical panorama. In the course of sorting that out, I noticed
the "vertical" (as set by linefind) lines that were actually horizontal
lines in the unrotated images.

I do want it fixed, because dealing with it in Hugin 2016 adds extra
steps to my workflow that Hugin 2015 didn't. All linefind needs to do is
correctly mark detected horizontal lines as horizontal lines, rather
than vertical lines with large errors.

[Abrimaal]

This version can be good for panoramas of single buildings, streets taken in perspective, railways etc. I left it on the disk installed in a separate folder.
When the final image is rotated, it can be fixed in the Move/Roll tab.

[David W. Jones]

On 04/25/2016 04:08 AM, T. Modes wrote:

> Am Dienstag, 19. April 2016 05:39:01 UTC+2 schrieb Abrimaal:
>

> *Build 2016: *

>
> The line find routine detects horizontal lines in the images, but
> they are listed as vertical. It causes problems with straightening
> of panoramas.
>
>
> linefind searches only for vertical line. Either the orientation of your
> images does not match (wrong rotation information) or you rotated the
> images in Hugin.
> If you don't provide more information, it is impossible to fix it.

Sorry for the delay.

Here's a link to a zipped up PTO, raw images and converted TIFF images
(converted using RawTherapee), plus the RawTherapee settings files:

http://clanjones.org/linefind-finds-horizontal-lines-test.zip

Running linefind on these two images (while using the workflow I've
always used with Hugin) resulted in 10 vertical lines, 5 of which are
actually horizontal lines.

Note: The images are not rotated in camera or any other software, these
are landscape orientation from start to finish.

Steps I used to produce it using Expert interface:

1. On Photos tab, add the images.
2. Run CPFind.
3. Run linefind.
4. Click Show Control Points button.
6. Sort list by Alignment so vert. Line is at top. Note 10 "vert.
Lines". Five have distances between 0.59 and 1.08. Five others have
distances between 37.26 and 44.93.
7. Click on any vertical line with small distances. Note that each is
visibly a vertical line.
8. Click on any verical line with large distances. Note that each is
visibly a HORIZONTAL line.

That process produced linefind-finds-horizontal-lines-test1.pto

Continuing on from there using the rest of my usual workflow (optimize
for position, clean control points, optimize everything) produced
linefind-finds-horizontal-lines-test2.pto.

So, linefind is finding horizontal lines but marking them as vertical lines.

In this particular small panorama, Hugin didn't end up rotating the
entire panorama 90 degrees. Doing my usual workflow steps on a panorama
using 11 frames gave me 55 vertical lines, 25 of which were visibly
horizontal lines, not vertical.

On the larger panorama, I tried changing the large-distance vertical
lines to horizontal lines; that changed distances from 60-120 to 0-10
distances. Optimizing for position in with those reported errors of 300.
Following that with optimize everything without translation gave error
of 949. Cleaning control points, removing 37 and reoptimizing reduced
error to 18. That eventually produced a panorama with a tilt toward the
right on the right hand side. Running the Straighten tool on it produced
a panorama with vertical alignments on the right side that tilted a bit
toward the right.

Executive summary:

With Hugin 2016.0.0.3b4e2790cb90 (newest one in Debian Testing), do this
extra step that wasn't needed in Hugin 2015: Sort control points by type
and delete all "vertical lines" that are actually horizontal lines. They
usually have large distances. Changing them to horizontal lines and
deleting any new horizontal lines that still had larger distances,
didn't help much. Best to delete the vertical lines found by linefind
that are actually horizontal lines.

[T. Modes]

Am Mittwoch, 11. Mai 2016 10:53:11 UTC+2 schrieb GnomeNomad:

Running linefind on these two images (while using the workflow I've
always used with Hugin) resulted in 10 vertical lines, 5 of which are
actually horizontal lines.

Fixed in repository.

[David W. Jones]

Thanks!

[Jan Dubiec]

If somebody wants to test this, there is Win32's build of the latest
snapshot of the "default" branch:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hplvk0kspc9cx8r/HuginSetup_2016.1.0-hg_912ab8ae8e70_32bit.exe?dl=1.

/J.D.

[David W. Jones]

On 05/12/2016 08:03 AM, T. Modes wrote:

How can I get a 64-bit Debian Linux version with this fix? Thanks.

[Stefan Peter]

Hi David

On 16.05.2016 07:10, David W. Jones wrote:
> On 05/12/2016 08:03 AM, T. Modes wrote:
>
>> Am Mittwoch, 11. Mai 2016 10:53:11 UTC+2 schrieb GnomeNomad:
>>
>> Running linefind on these two images (while using the workflow I've
>> always used with Hugin) resulted in 10 vertical lines, 5 of which are
>> actually horizontal lines.
>>
>> Fixed in repository.
>
> How can I get a 64-bit Debian Linux version with this fix? Thanks.

You can try the Hugin nightly builds for Ubuntu at
https://launchpad.net/~hugin/+archive/ubuntu/nightly


With kind regards

Stefan Peter


--
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A: Top-posting.
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[Hans Bull]

Thank you Stefan! I did not know the nighlty repository was still alive! Saves me much time.

Cheers,

HB

[Stefan Peter]

Dear Hans

On 17.05.2016 16:56, Hans Bull wrote:
> Thank you Stefan! I did not know the nighlty repository was still alive!
> Saves me much time.

You are welcome. But remember, this repository can be risky. Living on
the edge of technology and all that jazz...

On the other hand, you actively can participate in the development of
Hugin by sharing your experience and any problems you encounter with the
nightly builds on this mailing list. Thank your for downloading!!

With kind regards

Stefan Peter


--

[Frederic Da Vitoria]

Thanks for preparing this, Jan. I have an issue with it, although unrelated with the current issue: I can't drop images on the Hugin window.

--

Frederic Da Vitoria
(davitof)

Membre de l'April - « promouvoir et défendre le logiciel libre » - http://www.april.org

[Frederic Da Vitoria]

2016-05-17 23:29 GMT+02:00 Frederic Da Vitoria <davi...@gmail.com>:

2016-05-15 1:35 GMT+02:00 Jan Dubiec <j...@onet.pl>:

On 2016-05-12 20:03, T. Modes wrote:
>
> Am Mittwoch, 11. Mai 2016 10:53:11 UTC+2 schrieb GnomeNomad:
>
>     Running linefind on these two images (while using the workflow I've
>     always used with Hugin) resulted in 10 vertical lines, 5 of which are
>     actually horizontal lines.
>
> Fixed in repository.
If somebody wants to test this, there is Win32's build of the latest
snapshot of the "default" branch:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hplvk0kspc9cx8r/HuginSetup_2016.1.0-hg_912ab8ae8e70_32bit.exe?dl=1.

Thanks for preparing this, Jan. I have an issue with it, although unrelated with the current issue: I can't drop images on the Hugin window.

The issue disappeared after rebooting my Windows. BTW, I am using Windows 10 64 bite.

[Frederic Da Vitoria]

2016-05-17 23:48 GMT+02:00 Frederic Da Vitoria <davi...@gmail.com>:

2016-05-17 23:29 GMT+02:00 Frederic Da Vitoria <davi...@gmail.com>:

2016-05-15 1:35 GMT+02:00 Jan Dubiec <j...@onet.pl>:

On 2016-05-12 20:03, T. Modes wrote:
>
> Am Mittwoch, 11. Mai 2016 10:53:11 UTC+2 schrieb GnomeNomad:
>
>     Running linefind on these two images (while using the workflow I've
>     always used with Hugin) resulted in 10 vertical lines, 5 of which are
>     actually horizontal lines.
>
> Fixed in repository.
If somebody wants to test this, there is Win32's build of the latest
snapshot of the "default" branch:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hplvk0kspc9cx8r/HuginSetup_2016.1.0-hg_912ab8ae8e70_32bit.exe?dl=1.

Thanks for preparing this, Jan. I have an issue with it, although unrelated with the current issue: I can't drop images on the Hugin window.

The issue disappeared after rebooting my Windows. BTW, I am using Windows 10 64 bite.

I have a new problem with the beta version Jan compiled: when I use "No exposure correction, low dynamic range", the images are not correctly aligned in Gimp. This worked perfectly until I installed the beta version. I am almost sure I did not ask to reset the parameters, and the interface is still set to "Expert", which maybe means that indeed I did not reset them. Another problem is that I can't find where is this setting now. I haven't used it for years since it was set as I wanted it. I think it used to be in the parameters, but I can't find it any more. Can someone please help me?

[T. Modes]

Am Montag, 23. Mai 2016 01:51:12 UTC+2 schrieb Frederic Da Vitoria:

I have a new problem with the beta version Jan compiled: when I use "No exposure correction, low dynamic range", the images are not correctly aligned in Gimp. This worked perfectly until I installed the beta version. I am almost sure I did not ask to reset the parameters, and the interface is still set to "Expert", which maybe means that indeed I did not reset them. Another problem is that I can't find where is this setting now. I haven't used it for years since it was set as I wanted it. I think it used to be in the parameters, but I can't find it any more. Can someone please help me?

Maybe related to https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/hugin-ptx/BQt_1x5RobM

Otherwise you have to give more details. If you only talk from "this setting" it is impossible to help you.

[Frederic Da Vitoria]

2016-05-23 17:43 UTC+02:00, T. Modes <Thomas...@gmx.de>:

>
> Am Montag, 23. Mai 2016 01:51:12 UTC+2 schrieb Frederic Da Vitoria:
>>
>>
>> I have a new problem with the beta version Jan compiled: when I use "No
>> exposure correction, low dynamic range", the images are not correctly
>> aligned in Gimp. This worked perfectly until I installed the beta version.
>>
>> I am almost sure I did not ask to reset the parameters, and the interface
>>
>> is still set to "Expert", which maybe means that indeed I did not reset
>> them. Another problem is that I can't find where is this setting now. I
>> haven't used it for years since it was set as I wanted it. I think it used
>>
>> to be in the parameters, but I can't find it any more. Can someone please
>>
>> help me?
>>
>
> Maybe related to
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/hugin-ptx/BQt_1x5RobM

No, it does not look like it.

> Otherwise you have to give more details. If you only talk from "this
> setting" it is impossible to help you.

Yes, sorry, I should know how frustrating it is when users give vague
explanations. OTOH, since I can't find the parameter in question, it
is difficult for me to give you it's exact name. So I'll try to
explain.

First, I realize I missed an important part: I am using the "Remapped
images". In the default mode, Hugin generates cropped remapped images
in such a way that Gimp lods them completely superposed and that I
have to shift them to create the panorama. I believe this is actually
a Gimp issue, but I know that Hugin has a workaround. This involves
creating images which have the size of the final panorama and placing
them at the correct place so that when they are opened in Gimp, they
are already in the correct position. There used to be a parameter to
set this. IIRC, this was set in the parameters, you couldn't change it
in the Hugin main window. I hope I made more sense this time.

... I found the setting: "Create cropped images by default". And I
found the check box in the Nona Options dialog.

Once again, I believe there is at least a small install bug here: I am
almost sure I did not ask Hugin to reset parameters. Indeed, the
interface is in Expert mode, which seems to indicate that no reset was
performed.

If I have a little time in the following days, I'll do a test:
uninstall Hugin, install 2016.0.0, uncheck the crop checkbox, install
the beta and check. I'll report back.

[Jan Dubiec]

On 2016-05-23 20:37, Frederic Da Vitoria wrote:
[...]

> If I have a little time in the following days, I'll do a test:
> uninstall Hugin, install 2016.0.0, uncheck the crop checkbox, install
> the beta and check. I'll report back.

The latest version is here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5f4zasmblsr5136/HuginSetup_2016.1.0-hg_0acef4fb962d_32bit.exe?dl=0

/J.D.

[Frederic Da Vitoria]

Thank you, Jan

[Frederic Da Vitoria]

2016-05-23 21:48 GMT+02:00 Frederic Da Vitoria <davi...@gmail.com>:

2016-05-23 21:41 GMT+02:00 Jan Dubiec <j...@onet.pl>:

On 2016-05-23 20:37, Frederic Da Vitoria wrote:
[...]
> If I have a little time in the following days, I'll do a test:
> uninstall Hugin, install 2016.0.0, uncheck the crop checkbox, install
> the beta and check. I'll report back.
The latest version is here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5f4zasmblsr5136/HuginSetup_2016.1.0-hg_0acef4fb962d_32bit.exe?dl=0

/J.D.

Thank you, Jan

I just checked the version linked above without any issue. I first uninstalled Hugin, installed 2016.0.0, checked that it correctly "uncropped" the resulting images for Gimp, installed the beta version above, and checked by creating 2 different panos that the resulting images were "uncropped" too. I don't know what happened before, but I must say that the most plausible explanation is that I checked the "clear parameters" check box during install, although this does not seem very likely since it is unchecked by default. In case this was indeed a mistake of mine, sorry for the noise.

[Abrimaal]

Now I have a lot of single photos to straighten. Every time I load a new image, the projection is changed to Equirectangular, when I need Rectilinear. Repeating it too many times is uncomfortable.
Can I save the settings, that are not included in the Preferences to .ini file?
or start Hugin from a .bat file with desired parameters: rectilinear projection, control point detector set to vertical lines etc. ?

[bugbear]

Are your single photos that need straightening all taken in the same way way ?

If so, this could help:

http://hugin.sourceforge.net/docs/manual/Panorama_scripting_in_a_nutshell.html#Simple_command-line_stitching

BugBear

[Abrimaal]

No, taken with various cameras, in different years, seasons, various objects (mainly architecture)
I am not familiar to any of script languages, but it would look like this

define folder variable: path
for each to last file
set projection: rectilinear
run detect vertical lines
run optimize y,p,r,v,b
run calculate size
run autocrop
save .pto file as original-s.pto
save as original-s.jpg (all images are .jpg)
next

Some files will require manual adjustment, but at least half will be done correctly :)

[bugbear]

Abrimaal wrote:
> No, taken with various cameras, in different years, seasons, various objects (mainly architecture)

How many photographs do you have?

This would affect the degree to which automation is worth
the time (and trouble) to implement.

BugBear

[Abrimaal]

How many? Hundreds in every folder and hundreds of folders :)

[bugbear]

In that case I recommend a script.

BugBear

Abrimaal wrote:
> How many? Hundreds in every folder and hundreds of folders :)
>
> On Wednesday, December 7, 2016 at 9:52:18 AM UTC+1, bugbear wrote:
>
> Abrimaal wrote:

> > No, taken with various cameras, in differe nt years, seasons, various objects (mainly architecture)

>
> How many photographs do you have?
>
> This would affect the degree to which automation is worth
> the time (and trouble) to implement.
>
> BugBear
>

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[Abrimaal]

I'd like to see an example how to prepare such script.