Mosaic of Non-flat surface

[Michael Jackson]

Hello,

My name is Michael.  I'm a photographer using (or should I say, "trying to use") Hugin software. I'm using the 2013 version of Hugin and I have no idea where Mosaic mode is. I just keep reading that it might exist!  :-)

In any case, I'm trying to figure out how to use Hugin to create a mosaic that is NOT flat.

Let's say I want to shoot a row of books in a library.  Or perhaps a row of shelves in a grocery store. I want to be able to scroll left/right and up/down and see the details on each shelf (read the book titles, see the package labels, etc).

I have a few problems.

1. The surface is not flat.  Every time I move the camera, even if I remain perfectly flat to the shelves (X,Y,Z) I will still have parallax errors.  

2.  I have to shoot multiple shots, from multiple locations and stitch them together.  Even if I shoot multiple panos and try stitching them together, I still have the parallax problem.

3.  Since the rows are tall, I have to shoot the top, middle, and bottom of each row.  Now I have to stitch vertical as well as horizontal.  Even more parallax.

I can't imagine a much tougher task for my first try with Hugin.  I guess it would be more difficult if I had to mask out people walking in the pictures.

In any case, I have tried to find someone who might be able to point me in the right direction.  Is what I'm trying to do even possible?

If so, where do I start?

I have sample images, that I'm trying to stitch, that I can show you if that would help.

Thanks for any help!


Michael

[Terry Duell]

Hello Michael,

On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 07:01:47 +1100, Michael Jackson <chil...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hello,
>
> My name is Michael. I'm a photographer using (or should I say, "trying
> to use") Hugin software. I'm using the 2013 version of Hugin and I have
> no idea where Mosaic mode is. I just keep reading that it might exist!
> :-)
>
> In any case, I'm trying to figure out how to use Hugin to create a
> mosaic that is NOT flat.
>

[snip]

>
> If so, where do I start?
>

Have you had a look at the mosaic mode tutorial at
<http://hugin.sourceforge.net/tutorials/Mosaic-mode/en.shtml> ?

I haven't tried stitching images from a non flat surface in mosaic mode,
so I'm guessing a bit.
I think the trick is to select control points that would represent a flat
surface, if that's possible.

> I have sample images, that I'm trying to stitch, that I can show you if
> that would help.

Can you provide a few (say 3 or 4) for me to download and work with...on
Dropbox or similar?


Cheers,
--
Regards,
Terry Duell

[Terry Duell]

Just a little addition...

On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 09:32:15 +1100, Terry Duell <tdu...@iinet.net.au>
wrote:

>
> Have you had a look at the mosaic mode tutorial at
> <http://hugin.sourceforge.net/tutorials/Mosaic-mode/en.shtml> ?
>

At the end of this tutorial is a link (
<http://panospace.wordpress.com/2010/09/19/linear-panoramas-mosaic-tutorial/>)
to another on the subject by Yuval Levy, which specifically addresses the
'non flat' surface issue.

[Michael Jackson]

Hi Terry!

Thanks for responding.

I have seen both of those tutorials. I have to admit that the one with the building is a bit daunting. I'm brand new to Hugin and I'm using the 2013 version. So I am having trouble following along. For example, I can't even find Mosaic mode. And the more I read, the more I think I'm not setting up control points properly. I need a tutorial on how to use the control point editor. I've just been guessing. The program is HUGE.

In any case, the biggest difference between those examples and what I need to do is distance from camera to subject. I only have about 4 feet between me and the shelves that I am shooting. So the parallax is enormous. I will send samples of what I am trying to stitch. If you need me to take more shot, closer together, and with more overlap, no problem. I'm up for trying anything!

I will upload the files to Dropbox and send you an invite. What email address should I use for Dropbox?

Thanks for the help!

Michael

[Michael Jackson]

One more thing,

I said that the project couldn't get any tougher for my first Hugin project...I was wrong.

The second wall that I have to shoot has mirrors on it!!

We can worry about that little problem after we find a solution to the parallax issue and just stitching the thing together! :-)

Michael

[dgjoh...@accesscomm.ca]

A judicious use of masking might be something to check into. Use the overlaps to align all the images then mask out most of the overlap at left and right of each image so only the central, least distorted, part of each image ends up in the final panoramic. Might require more images with heavy overlapping.

Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless handheld

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[Terry Duell]

Hello Michael,

On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 21:26:24 +1100, Michael Jackson <chil...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi Terry!
>
> Thanks for responding.
>
> I have seen both of those tutorials. I have to admit that the one with
> the building is a bit daunting. I'm brand new to Hugin and I'm using
> the 2013 version. So I am having trouble following along. For example,
> I can't even find Mosaic mode.

Mosaic mode is really method of shooting, and then the optimising using
the translation parameters.

> And the more I read, the more I think I'm not setting up control points
> properly. I need a tutorial on how to use the control point editor.
> I've just been guessing. The program is HUGE.
>
> In any case, the biggest difference between those examples and what I
> need to do is distance from camera to subject. I only have about 4 feet
> between me and the shelves that I am shooting. So the parallax is
> enormous.

OK, the short distance may cause problems.

> I will send samples of what I am trying to stitch. If you need me to
> take more shot, closer together, and with more overlap, no problem. I'm
> up for trying anything!
>

Let's see what you are working with first.

> I will upload the files to Dropbox and send you an invite. What email
> address should I use for Dropbox?

Just send the Dropbox link to my personal email. If you are comfortable
for that link to be public, then post it here as others on the list may
wish to contribute as well.

[Carl von Einem]

Michael Jackson schrieb am 24.11.13 11:26:

>
> I'm brand new to Hugin and I'm using the 2013 version. So I am
> having trouble following along. For example, I can't even find
> Mosaic mode.

Are you using the Simple (=basic) mode? You switch between modes in Menu
-> Interface. Try Expert for stitching Mosaics.

OTOH I'm not sure if it's clever to start with Mosaic mode. You should
try to understand the basic principles and workflows first, and later
catch on with such specialised features.

You ask us to help us with how Hugin works but from what I read first of
all you still seem to struggle how to get the shots properly.

> And the more I read, the more I think I'm not setting up control
> points properly. I need a tutorial on how to use the control
> point editor. I've just been guessing. The program is HUGE.

Yes, indeed. And I think you overestimated your project, right?

Carl

[Michael Jackson]

Hi Terry,

Sorry I dropped off for a bit.  Got sick.  In any case, I think I'm going to take more pictures before posting them to Dropbox.  My initial feeling is that, even though there is overlap, they are taken on too wide of a lens.  I think that I need to shoot A LOT more pictures of smaller areas with even more overlap.

As soon as I feel well I will shoot them and post to Dropbox.

Michael

[Michael Jackson]

Carl,

I think you are correct.  I am going to try a simple flat surface so that I can get accustomed to the program.  Then I'll try the actual project as I posted here.

You are also right that I overestimated the project.  I had NO idea that it would be so difficult.  However, by the time I actually complete this project I should definitely have a good understand of Hugin and whatever other software and/or shooting techniques I need to use.  I'll let you guys know how it goes as I progress.

Michael

[Terry Duell]

Hello Michael,

On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 15:19:50 +1100, Michael Jackson <chil...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi Terry,
>
> Sorry I dropped off for a bit. Got sick. In any case, I think I'm going
> to take more pictures before posting them to Dropbox. My initial feeling
> is that, even though there is overlap, they are taken on too wide of a
> lens. I think that I need to shoot A LOT more pictures of smaller areas
> with even more overlap.

Not knowing much detail of your project, that might be OK.
I have seen Enblend get a bit upset with a lot of overlap, but I'm not
sure just how much is too much.
I suspect that you will have to experiment a bit with this project, and
not just to come to grips with Hugin.
Hope you are OK soon.

[Carl von Einem]

Hi Michael,

maybe these links are interesting for you:

The panotools wiki is always a good starting point...
<http://wiki.panotools.org/Stitching_a_photo-mosaic>

<https://dinosaurpalaeo.wordpress.com/2013/01/20/using-hugin-part-4-mosaic-images/>

<http://jamie3d.com/stitching-murals-in-hugin-and-removing-obstructions>

Carl

Michael Jackson schrieb am 26.11.13 05:23: