Proposal: Change proposal requirements

[Luis Montes]

30 days is way too long to get a proposal through.

Change these two lines:

"Proposals must be submitted at least 30 days before an HYH meeting to be eligible for voting."

"Proposals are automatically considered at the HYH meeting if they have been discussed for 30 days."

to:

"Proposals must be submitted at least 9 days before an HYH meeting to be eligible for voting."

"Proposals are automatically considered at the HYH meeting if they have been discussed for 9 days."

The board made these changes to the bylaws without consulting the rest of the members.  My proposal is a compromise. I went with 9 days so that the results of one HYH can lead to changes at the next one.  It gives the person some time after an HYH to write up a new proposal.

I'd love some input on this, but I really think it needs to be well under 2 weeks.


-Luis

[Chris McLaughlin]

The only problem I see with your timeframe, is that any changes to proposals are locked one week prior to HYH when the agenda is made. That gives everyone one week to see the proposal in it's final voting form. Your timeline would only give 2 days for discussion/edits.

[Luis Montes]

Maybe we also shouldn't require that the wording for the proposal be locked in with a week to go.  I don't see the benefit of keeping discussions from altering the wording right up until HYH.

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[Luis Montes]

rewording of this proposals

Change these two lines:

"Proposals must be submitted at least 30 days before an HYH meeting to be eligible for voting."

"Proposals are automatically considered at the HYH meeting if they have been discussed for 30 days."

to:

"Proposals must be submitted at least 9 days before an HYH meeting to be eligible for voting."

"Proposals are automatically considered at the HYH meeting if they have been discussed for 9 days."

and strike this completely:  "No further changes may be made within one week of the HYH meeting."

and strike this completely as it is somewhat redundant (we already mention posting to this google group): "The final version of the proposal must be clearly posted and locked in the Google Group at least one week before the meeting." 

[Eric Ose]

For reference in the past final changes were to be made at least 24 hours before HYH.

Also worth noting that sometimes there are 20 days between HYH. So you may have to wait whichever designated delay minimum+ 20 days.

Eric Ose
Robot Ambassador

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[Jeff Sittler]

Eric,

Please give me a scenario where a proposal would have to wait the minimum + 20 days.

Thanks!

[Rick Blake]

Between July 24th and August 24th there is a 5th Thursday. Total days between would be 21 days between HYH meetings then. And this happens twice a year, minimum, I believe.

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[Jeff Sittler]

From my math, that still would not equate to the minimum + 20.  

Please provide me with a concrete example, so I can be educated, of when a proposal would have to wait the minimum days + 20.

Thanks!

[Rick Blake]

Apparently I don't understand the proposal. But my example shows that there's an extra week between hyh meetings between July and August. That's seven more days. If you're not careful and you don't actually submit your proposal within a day or two of the last hyh, and I suspect it's the one day after hyh, then it has to wait another cycle. Perhaps I need to see the math done out for me so I can agree. But I did it in my head, and it seems like that's how it would work.

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[Eric Ose]

Here are some HYH that are 21 days apart. If you must submit a proposal x days in advance, but are also a day late to make it to the Column A HYH then you have can be forced to wait 20 days plus the delay requirement.

Column A and Column B

05/22/25 & 06/12/25

07/24/25 & 08/14/25
10/23/25 & 11/13/25

Concrete example: If you wanted to make a proposal now, but didn't write it until 04/23 then you will have to wait until the 6/12/25 HYH because you must have 30 days in advance of HYH and you will miss the 5/22/25 HYH.

I did post this on the Slack and nobody has yet corrected my assumptions about this scenario. I look forward to being corrected.

Eric Ose

Robot Ambassador

Sometimes cool things just happen, but usually you have to plan them.

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[Jeff Sittler]

Thank you Eric for the clarification.

Yes I can see in that particular scenario it would add up, but I feel that is an edge case not the norm.

[Linda Krecker]

I read most of these ideas, And I think that you'all are wanting more time to discuss and refine any proposal, which is a grand idea. But given that HYH is every two weeks, what about using a 4 week timeline for proposals. So, each proposal could be listed on week 1, then discussed, and two HYHs later, brought to vote. 

On Mon, Apr 21, 2025 at 12:11 PM Luis Montes <mont...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Ryan Mcdermott]

What is the benefit of making it harder to pass proposals?

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[Francisco Ruiz]

Agreed! This just makes an extra hoop to jump through and doesn’t really help our decreasing attendance and membership engagement.

Thank you,

Francisco Ruiz

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[Eric Ose]

I had asked multiple times for clarification on what benefit the board sought by delaying proposals. Here is the answer that I was given by Jeff.

> What is the goal of 30 day proposal lead times?
The 30 days was put in to allow more time for the community to discuss a proposal, rather than "rush" to get it in and it not having that proper discussion.  You yourself have said at an HYH "I need to go rush to create a proposal tonight so it can be added to the next HYH". With 30 days, there is no longer a need to go "rush" to get a proposal in.

This was in the Slack Bylaws committee channel; https://heatsynclabs.slack.com/archives/C08KRHRMH8Q/p1742924918082209

As far as I'm concerned having to post the proposals even earlier doesn't improve the need to rush to submit them. I find it hard to see this as working that way.

Eric Ose

Robot Ambassador

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[Rick Blake]

Sadly, I feel a rush to get one submitted before I have to wait and wait and wait.

Also, 30 days is more than 2 HYH cycles except for 5th Thursday months... But check my math, I'm not very confident in that.

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[Michael Mathers]

The explanation of purpose for the change does not make sense to me.  The "rush" is typically to be sure the proposal is written and posted asap so that it doesn't have to wait unnecessarily long to get voted on at HYH.  The increased lead time exacerbates the issue, not improves that. 

Admittedly, I haven't been here long, but in every instance where I saw that discussion was continuing on a proposal it was simply postponed to the next HYH as needed.  I can't recall a complaint about needing more discussion or a refusal to postpone it because more discussion was requested.  Extending the lead time only makes sense if there issue was with proposals not being seen soon enough or requests for further discussion were not being honored.  Neither of those seemed like problems to me but I will leave that to others to conclude.

Michael

[Luis Montes]

this got missed during the board meeting and should be voted on this thursday by members

On Mon, Apr 21, 2025 at 12:11 PM Luis Montes <mont...@gmail.com> wrote: