Choir that does not damp

[Rod Lloyd]

I recently joined a new handbell choir in our new town and they will likely recruit me to become conductor sooner or later.  

None of the ringers damp hardly ever presumable because they have not been trained how and when to damp.    The sound is similar to a bell tree [no disrespect].

The question is, how does one transition into damping without freaking everyone out.  Some ringers have been playing many years, so a hard habit to change.

Rod

[THOMAS SIMPSON]

Uh. Ring a lot of LV only music? 

🤔

Thomas 

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On Feb 14, 2020, at 4:27 PM, Rod Lloyd <rll...@clear-lake.com> wrote:



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[Michele Sharik - TGD]

Hi Rod!

I admit I'm jealous because I'd much rather have a choir that damps less than a choir that damps too much! 

Are you a pianist? I invite you to consider teaching them to damp as you would as a pianist. (How often do you play piano without using the pedal? Even if it's not marked...) 

Remember also that handbells can damp more flexibly than a piano because we can control every note individually and a piano can't. Make use of that ability too. 

If you'll be at National Seminar this year, please consider taking my "50 Shades of Damping" class in which we explore the vast area between LV and strict note-value damping.

-Michèle Sharik

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On Feb 14, 2020, at 16:27, Rod Lloyd <rll...@clear-lake.com> wrote:



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[Michele Sharik - TGD]

Dale Wood's pieces are gorgeous! I'm using them with my church choir now to get them to focus more on ringing than damping. 

-Mè 

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On Feb 14, 2020, at 16:30, 'THOMAS SIMPSON' via Handbell-l <handb...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Uh. Ring a lot of LV only music? 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/handbell-l/4977999B-782E-4FE7-A4FD-6A84325295B7%40aol.com.

[Brian Seemann]

I'm with Michèle, most bell ensembles damp too much!!  I joke that my general rule is LVUSB -  "Let Vibrate Until it Sounds Bad"  If you have a lot of quick harmonic changes (chord changes) or a lot of accidentals, you'll want to be more judicious about damping, but other than that I agree with Michele to damp like you would pedal on the piano.  I would also focus the damping efforts on the mid range and bass bells where the sustain is much longer.  The 6s and 7s, have such a short sustain you could get away with them almost never damping.

On Friday, February 14, 2020 at 7:32:49 PM UTC-5, Michele Sharik wrote:

Hi Rod!

I admit I'm jealous because I'd much rather have a choir that damps less than a choir that damps too much! 

Are you a pianist? I invite you to consider teaching them to damp as you would as a pianist. (How often do you play piano without using the pedal? Even if it's not marked...) 

Remember also that handbells can damp more flexibly than a piano because we can control every note individually and a piano can't. Make use of that ability too. 

If you'll be at National Seminar this year, please consider taking my "50 Shades of Damping" class in which we explore the vast area between LV and strict note-value damping.

-Michèle Sharik

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 14, 2020, at 16:27, Rod Lloyd <rll...@clear-lake.com> wrote:



I recently joined a new handbell choir in our new town and they will likely recruit me to become conductor sooner or later.  

None of the ringers damp hardly ever presumable because they have not been trained how and when to damp.    The sound is similar to a bell tree [no disrespect].

The question is, how does one transition into damping without freaking everyone out.  Some ringers have been playing many years, so a hard habit to change.

Rod

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[Karen Carlisle]

I agree there is so much over damping. I have had people you could hear the damp. It can make a song sound choppy

[Mary Clark]

I ring the huge tower bells at Washington National Cathedral. No one ever suggested we run upstairs and damp a 3600-pound bell. 

In my humble opinion, bells are meant to reverberate — to die in the wind.

Yes, sometimes handbells need to be damped. But they also need to express themselves.

I say LET THEM RING!! (But use your ear to damp only where it’s absolutely necessary.)

Mary Clark

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Mary Clark

Director of Instrumental Music

Fourth Presbyterian Church

301-320-3600 x203

[Dawn Beckwell]

Some choirs damp too much, some not enough, and it really should vary by piece, depending on what the music needs. Every ringer should learn many ways. My default is 'legato damping' unless marked otherwise  But - to address your question - the first step may be to have each ringer damp on beat one of a measure unless they play a note on beat one.  It would be an easy way to introduce the notion and motion to the entire choir. Start simple, move on from there.

DawnB

[Herb Geisler]

To me it seems that handbell damping should be heard the same way as with piano or Indonesian gamelan; that is, the beauty of the decay in each case should be valued where and as long as it can be appreciated, but in both of those cases the usual density of piano and gamelan music would become seriously muddied and unpleasant if undamped.

On the other hand, as in piano and gamelan performance, handbell ensembles that damp prematurely are indeed disturbing the beauty of the bell “decay” that draws so many people to the instrument.

I really can’t remember having difficulty teaching even the youngest and most elementary ringers to damp precisely as a general principle.  It’s such a basic technique and expressive device.  All pianists learn very early and rather quickly to release notes just in time for the next one to be struck, or to hold notes down when they should be sustained.  At a more advanced level they learn to use sostenuto pedals when “damping” is to be avoided.  A first principle for gamelan players is the somewhat more challenging maneuver of damping each bar or pot immediately after it is played while simultaneously striking the next pitch.

So I say it’s worth the relatively minor effort to learn precise damping as one of the fundamental tools of handbell musicianship.  This is the “legato damping” principle that Dawn Beckwell referred to: it’s a gorgeous sound when handbell ensembles master this, just like fine piano and gamelan playing–for any style of music except change ringing, tower bell, some unison parts or special expressive effects.

When tower bells and carillons ring one tone at a time, fine—by all means don’t hurt your shoulders to damp them :(  but let everyone enjoy the breadth of “ring" that tower bells convey so well.  Even great carillons playing organ arrangements (loved the weekly carillon recitals at The University of Michigan!) have a special spatiality that is tantalizing in their settings.  But the densely-textured and often virtuosic handbell ensemble pieces we all play on stages and in churches sound sloppy at the least and cacophonous at the worst if completely or inconsistently undamped! 

Herb

Herbert G. Geisler, Ph.D.

    Emeritus Professor of Music and Director of Music Education and Handbells

Concordia University Irvine, California

[nbwa...@aol.com]

I quite agree with Herb!!  My choir learned legato damping pretty early on, because I couldn’t bear the sound of so many stopped sound techniques.  They have their place, but so does the L.V. style for many handbell pieces.  Much of what I have written for handbells is intended for legato style damping, and L.V. ringing.  Our instrument has such a beautiful sound when permitted to resonate as much as possible.

My two cents!

Nan Beth Walton

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Choir that does not damp

Herb Geisler <herb.g...@cui.edu>: Feb 16 07:21PM -0800

To me it seems that handbell damping should be heard the same way as with piano or Indonesian gamelan; that is, the beauty of the decay in each case should be valued where and as long as it can be appreciated, but in both of those cases the usual density of piano and gamelan music would become seriously muddied and unpleasant if undamped.   On the other hand, as in piano and gamelan performance, handbell ensembles that damp prematurely are indeed disturbing the beauty of the bell “decay” that draws so many people to the instrument.   I really can’t remember having difficulty teaching even the youngest and most elementary ringers to damp precisely as a general principle. It’s such a basic technique and expressive device. All pianists learn very early and rather quickly to release notes just in time for the next one to be struck, or to hold notes down when they should be sustained. At a more advanced level they learn to use sostenuto pedals when “damping” is to be avoided. A first principle for gamelan players is the somewhat more challenging maneuver of damping each bar or pot immediately after it is played while simultaneously striking the next pitch.   So I say it’s worth the relatively minor effort to learn precise damping as one of the fundamental tools of handbell musicianship. This is the “legato damping” principle that Dawn Beckwell referred to: it’s a gorgeous sound when handbell ensembles master this, just like fine piano and gamelan playing–for any style of music except change ringing, tower bell, some unison parts or special expressive effects.   When tower bells and carillons ring one tone at a time, fine—by all means don’t hurt your shoulders to damp them :( but let everyone enjoy the breadth of “ring" that tower bells convey so well. Even great carillons playing organ arrangements (loved the weekly carillon recitals at The University of Michigan!) have a special spatiality that is tantalizing in their settings. But the densely-textured and often virtuosic handbell ensemble pieces we all play on stages and in churches sound sloppy at the least and cacophonous at the worst if completely or inconsistently undamped!   Herb   Herbert G. Geisler, Ph.D. Emeritus Professor of Music and Director of Music Education and Handbells Concordia University Irvine, California

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[Jeannie]

My soap box for 2020 in both singing and ringing groups is "honor the rest!" The timely lack of sound enhances the notes played. Early damping is as annoying to the ear as inadequate damping. IMHO. The need to damp the 7's and how to damp bass bells with minimal whomp are important skills to be mindful of.

[Rod Lloyd]

I learned handbell ringing from an old Donald Allured video where says "there are three ways to damp a handbell, only one of which is correct".

When I hear a ringer play [the unintended] left hand and then right hand with no damp, the dissonance drives me nuts, especially in the melody.

I can accept a "musician" deciding to allow the bell to decay past its note value when it is pleasing. I can not accept negligent and constant lack of damping.

Ringers need to learn to play true note value first, then learn when musicians license is suitable and appropriate in a given circumstance.

Rod

[THOMAS SIMPSON]

But did you know there are 11 ways to 4-in-Hand? And 9 of them don’t work? 

Thomas 

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On Feb 19, 2020, at 9:19 PM, Rod Lloyd <rll...@clear-lake.com> wrote:



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[TimR]

I have the same problem with my crew.

I have decided to fight the battles I can win.  

I pick places where the lack of damping really stands out, have them mark them, and drill those measures.  The rest, I'm happy if we get the right note.   

Personally I probably tend to reflexively damp more than needed.  

[Rod Lloyd]

Tonight's rehearsal included a section with chimes.  No damping for a chime passage is nasty.

Rod

On Friday, February 14, 2020 at 6:27:08 PM UTC-6, Rod Lloyd wrote:

[Karin McDonough]

True, but damping early leaves holes.

Karin 

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[David Engle]

You really need to try to convince your ringers that damping is not a sin and it will only improve the overall presentation of your music ministry.  Try to get them to learn and use "dirty" damping on both the bells and chimes.  This is damping as the next note is rung so that there is not a noticeable space between notes and the previous note does not cover up or create a dissonance with the note being played.

Have you tried to record a rehearsal or presentation of your music and then had them listen to what they are doing?

David in Stafford, VA

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[Leah]

"Dirty damping." Maybe not sinful, but it does sound risque. This is the technique my choirs use, but we call it legato ringing and note-value damping. Probably not as titillating as "dirty damping,"but just as effective.

[David Engle]

Totally agree - but mine saves time in rehearsals : )