MI9

[mmaxi]

Hello,

I have a dual frequency MI9, indeed the double frequency does nothing more than a normal GPS, even when I am in fix, the precision is only 1 m or 2 m but as soon as I go hiking, the accuracy degrades and comparing two tracks, one from my MI9 and another from a Garmin Gpsmap64s, the 64s looks better, as the MI9 gives a larger cumulative climb because it spikes in the altitudes, peaks which increase the cumulative difference in height. I think these peaks come from the computation of the dataset of the four satellite systems as well as the dual frequencies. Then the tracking is not better, there are imperfections on the tracking on the road.
Garmin has just released two multiband and dual frequency GPS, I will be curious to see what that gives in terms of accuracy and cumulative climb.

Maxime

[Lodro Gyamtso]

Hi Maxime,

1.
have you ever heard "what you pay is what you get" ? i will explain

the smartphone is a multifunction device, but PND is dedicated for one job (function) device. On both device you have said, the cost is at very similar prices. As i know, the 90% of the price of a product is for the main device, 5% is for the software and the rest for various things.

For the smartphone, from the 90% we have 70-80% for : SoC (snapdragon), 4-6 camera modules, screen, ram, rom, outside materials, battery, just for a few thinks. But what about gnss receiver ? Oh, it's inside the SoC, as a gift !!!
But for the garmin PND, this 90% goes to : the cheap plastic body, and the 50-60%  for the expensive antenna - ceramic patch or quad helix and of cource the special and high price GNSS receiver. The rest of the money goes for other various things.

When we are on static measurements, the accuracy is very similar 2-4 meters on both solutions. But when we are moving - YES this is the navigation - the accuracy results has very big differences.

Why billions of smartphones users don't have complains ? Because they don't care about recording accuracy results. If they manage to go from point A to point B with google maps, they are happy. That's exactly happens to me. I know the issue, but i can navigate just fine.

what i have in my mind for the next buying ? my next smartphone navigation device wil be rugged, like a samsung xcover series, with the add of one hand-made bluetooth of ublox gnss receiver

2.
about the new multi band garmin pnd comparison see this

https://i.imgur.com/jWM2Ufg.jpg
see the better moving accuracy ? it's between high and narrow rocks here

https://www.google.gr/maps/@47.46341,11.122846,3a,75y,225.17h,66.52t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipN2znfNgFf_hXpWbgpbY06PFDDhKTEMGsD88g0!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipN2znfNgFf_hXpWbgpbY06PFDDhKTEMGsD88g0%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi0-ya314.66318-ro-0-fo100!7i5760!8i2880

[andras.l...@gmail.com]

here is a link, MI8 (backpocket) and a Garmin device (outfront mount) with "special and high price GNSS receiver" :)   ridden the same route 3times, 30mins between the rounds 

https://ibb.co/PQV1sDV

[andras.l...@gmail.com]

regarding GPSMAP 66ST (singleband) and 66SR (dualband), here is a comparison at a reference point as a static survey,

66ST is showing 4m as oem GPS accuracy, the real (error) accuracy is 3.004meter

66SR is showing 1.8m as oem GPS accuracy, the real (error) accuracy is 2.389meter

https://gpsradler.de/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Garmin-GPSmap-66sr-66st-Referenzpunkt.webp

https://s3.amazonaws.com/gs-waymarking-images/a1f0490a-ecae-46eb-8dd2-5d0604407c46.jpg

the visual comparison: https://ibb.co/Wt3jWJv  

the real position is this one: N 49.43093010°  E 10.94170046° (~1mm accuracy )

it is very far from a professional device or even from a MI8's accuracy (i could reach subdecimeter accuracy (both H/V) with MI8 with postprocessing), the MI9's GPS part (the 855 inbuilt one) is a huge stepback comparing to MI8's additional Broadcom chip, probably You will have a slightly better track when You are moving but wont be accurate (in my eyes). 

BTW, does somebody know which dualband chip is builted in the 66SR? the new Sony dualband chip or any other , i didnt find info about it (if it is the new dual Sony, then it doesnt worth a penny :)) 

[Lodro Gyamtso]

Hi Andreas,

reading your post, i can found "MI8 (backpocket) and a Garmin device (outfront mount) with "special and high price GNSS receiver" :) "

you obviously disagree with my point of view. this is not a problem. Here we have one more test from a well know review site.
https://i.imgur.com/5YPhSc2.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/psjJT9O.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/5smWMpC.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/sx0fOC0.jpg

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Xiaomi-Mi-8-Smartphone-Review.413848.0.html

I think i will better to let the readers/ users to decide what is better for their needs. Personal i am using over 8 years, android navigation devices. Βut I have all the necessary proof of the superiority of the receiver in garmin devices.

[mmaxi]

Hello,

In fact we have nothing to do with 3m vs 1m, for us hikers, the precision has nothing to do, we do not see any difference when we record a track, provided it is on the path or a few meters close, it does not matter.
I have a friend who has the multiband 66sr and his track is not much better than on my GPS + Glonass 64s.

If I bought a Xiaomi MI9 it is because I needed a smartphone, and that I chose this one rather than another at the same price I took the MI9.

Maxime

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[andras.l...@gmail.com]

Hallo Lordo ,

ahh , these notebookcheck guys, they are calling an Edge 500 and 520 as  "professional navigation devices" in the comparisons  :D  , i wrote them a few email about it and what is a real "professional navigation device" , they are very stupid for GPS testing, they can test camera features and any other mobile features well but so unqualified for GPS surveying...

I made (and still making  ) tons of such a comparisons in the past 10years, it is my  "job",  i'm using my MI8 everyday for tracking since a year so i know what is the MI8's  capability and what is the weakness of the Garmin units (i have 4 different now and sold a few).

here it is my latest static survey (~3mins)  with MI8 (with post processing), i think You can interpret the result:

https://ibb.co/Vw2n2BR

[Lodro Gyamtso]

why you are interesting for the gnss model chip inside the new dual band PND from garmin  ? You will buy one and make your personal device ?
As we can see, they are working better compared with dual band android devices. Who cares ?

in the past, garmin was using stmicroelectronics. latest years is using mediatek. last 3 months ... i don't know !!!!

[Lodro Gyamtso]

Ha ha ha, i have the same opinion you about  "professional navigation device"

[andras.l...@gmail.com]

because i'm using the Garmin device as primary tracking device (with cycling powermeter, heart rate sensor, etc, i'm a semi-pro cyclist...) and the MI8 is just backup but i often replace the GPS datapoints in the Garmin's log files from the MI8 GPX file when i upload my activity to the cycling analyst webpage (i dont like the wobby inaccurate gps tracks...)  and if the new dualband Sony chip (because the Garmin choose the Sony as GPS supplier for the next years) is so inaccurate than the newer Garmin cycling units will be similar than the actual models and nothing will change...

The Garmin is using Sony singleband GPS chipset since 1.5-2 years apprx in their devices, before it they used Mediatek for 5-6years apprx , and the best was the SirfStar chips prior ~2012... (Edge 705 model as cycling head unit ). i just asked it because still nobody made a 66SR teardown , thats all.

Back to the notebookcheck review, they used a bad gps tracker and/or tried it with the very first ROMs and that is the reason, since 1.5years the MI8 with a good tracker app works perfectly ... 

[andras.l...@gmail.com]

honestly i'm waiting for a portable bluetooth dual band tracker with u-blox (btw they will announce something tomorrow!)  chip (like the Garmin GLO 2 or similar just more accurate...) and with good antenne and own battery . 

[Lodro Gyamtso]

UBlox F9 series is found into devices with 2000$. It will be forbidden from ublox to allow someone to make cheap devices.

about new sony CXD5610G, we will find it in the IoT and Wearable Devices. I find it impossible to use into mountain PND devices. That is what i believe.

[andras.l...@gmail.com]

i think this marketing strategy will change soon (this "market protecting"), the competitors are growing quickly and if they (u-blox for example but the others also) dont change their strategy they wont sell as many chips as they sold in the past, the things are changed and lots of companies are still living in the past and selling their product at unbeliavable expensive price (not only in GPS survey business)

maybe i should wrote this: " i'm waiting for a portable bluetooth dual band tracker with u-blox OR SIMILAR (btw they will announce something tomorrow!)  chip (like the Garmin GLO 2 or similar just more accurate...) and with good antenne and own battery .  " 

the cycling head units are also "wearable devices" , these GPSMAP series are also the similar, so i dont think these are using different chipset in 2020 than the other product lines at the Garmin... but i'm trying to ask my contact at Garmin directly now ;)

[Lodro Gyamtso]

about new sony CXD5610G, we will find it in the IoT and Wearable Devices

into my previous post, the model name after copy+paste, lost at the end the letter F
sony CXD5610GF

[Lodro Gyamtso]

after some months, i had the luck to found the first "all in one" module with the gnss chip from sony the CXD5610
the info came from the well known site https://www.gpsworld.com/telit-offers-first-l1l5-module-under-collaboration-with-sony/

when we visit the telit web page https://www.telit.com/m2m-iot-products/positioning-timing-modules/gnss-se868sy-d/
we can found the pdf manual with ...
- GPS L1 and L5, Galileo E1 and E5, Glonass L1, BeiDou B1 and B2, and IRNSS L5
- SBAS EGNOS, WAAS, GAGAN and MSAS
- Up to 25 Hz update rate
- Horizontal positional accuracy : L1+L5 - CEP 50% < 1 m (this mean submeter)