Re: [go-nuts] Re: now that the election is over can we please remove the political ad for golang.org
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Axel Wagner
Mar 17, 2021, 6:10:09 AM3/17/21
to golang-nuts
The banner is not related to the (US presidential) election. It is also not partisan - it is purely issue-oriented and not associated to a particular party (of any country).
As such, nothing has really changed since the topic last came up.
On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 10:59 AM mortdeus <mort...@gmail.com> wrote:
ugh i really need to hire an editor.--On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 4:57:16 AM UTC-5 mortdeus wrote:First of all full disclosure, I just want to apologize ahead of time to anybody who finds what I am about to say offensive. I understand politics are really important to a lot of people (especially right now) so I understand how just my suggestion of this might offend people who care a lot about the issue. And for that I sincerely do apologize to anybody here who might find what I am about to say offensive.
But with that being said, I full heartedly believe that what I am about to say is extremely important towards trying to maintain the healthy culture we've all been working to build for the last 10 years.
Leave your politics at home where they belong.
This ad should have never been put up to begin with because frankly this community is far more important (and far larger) than America's general incapability to get along with one another.
When I type golang.org into my browser and click send, I view this as my escape hatch from the absolutely and obnoxiously too loud world were constantly forced to listen to, because frankly social media decided to give everybody megaphones and started rewarding people with fame for being smart enough (and more concerning physically attractive enough) to promote a message that can be heard through all the noise pollution.
So honestly, while I didn't say anything about it, but honestly when I saw the ad a few weeks before the election it seriously broke my heart. It didn't piss me off, it made me literally want to cry, not because I don't believe we shouldn't do more to help fight poverty (because the reality is that while we might have a racism problem in America, we definitely have a poverty problem and the later is far easier to quantify and effectively address) but because I literally thought we all understood, in our community the only thing we could care less about than how you'd all band together to vote politically, is how you'd all band together to vote for "quality of life" additions to the language that would probably ruin it.
As a registered Republican (but not really a Trump supporter) I am going to say that Black Lives Matter, but not more than this community being impartial to the radical notion that we have to be willing to accept even white supremacists into our ranks, if they like to code in the best programming language on the planet. Because frankly it is through a united, loving and deliberately NON-PARTISANLY inclusive community structure that ultimately allows us to defeat them at their own game.
All I am saying is we need to take down the "conservatives not welcome here" sign.
And if me saying that offends you, then like I said I am sorry, but imagine if that tag said "have you been to church lately?" and asked you to donate to Chris Pratt's church because that is align with the political campaign strategy that aimed to keep Trump in office, when all you want to do is think about creative ways to move bits around.
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Jan Mercl
Mar 17, 2021, 6:27:12 AM3/17/21
to mortdeus, golang-nuts
On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 10:57 AM mortdeus <mort...@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm probably giving up any hopes to work for Google in the future by
writing this: +1. I find the banner deeply offensive, divisive and
excluding for people with dissenting views, regardless of the
omnipresent inclusiveness narrative. I cannot stand it, so I need
Adblock to use the site.
Alea iacta est.
I'm probably giving up any hopes to work for Google in the future by
writing this: +1. I find the banner deeply offensive, divisive and
excluding for people with dissenting views, regardless of the
omnipresent inclusiveness narrative. I cannot stand it, so I need
Adblock to use the site.
Alea iacta est.
Wojciech S. Czarnecki
Mar 17, 2021, 7:21:36 AM3/17/21
to golan...@googlegroups.com
Dnia 2021-03-17, o godz. 02:57:15
mortdeus <mort...@gmail.com> napisał(a):
> This ad should have never been put up to begin with
Every time I go to sites with this banner I am being reminded of what have
happened to this once democratic country. And not to this country alone.
> this community is far more important (and far larger) than America's general
> incapability to get along with one another.
Not "general incapability", but incapability of some 40% deluded by the Big Lie¹.
> Honestly when I saw the ad a few weeks before the election it seriously broke my heart.
If it pains, it works as intended.
> this community being impartial to the radical notion that we have to be
> willing to accept even white supremacists into our ranks, if they like to
> code in the best
What about liars, rapists, murderers? Are they ok just because they *like*
to code? No, never! Healthy community shuns off toxic elements.
> loving and deliberately NON-PARTISANLY inclusive community structure
Inclusiveness and tolerance may not, and happily in tech communities now
does not, extend to individuals set at destroying either or both.
> that ultimately allows us to defeat them at their own game.
Empowering evil with tech knowledge diminishes moral people chances to prevail.
> All I am saying is we need to take down the "conservatives not welcome here" sign.
Cult of amorality and "supremacy" is contrary to everything that "conservative" means.
This is not the only word stolen by nazis, but its theft pains me the most.
> And if me saying that offends you
It does not offend me, I really enjoyed it — it acknowledged that not all people sold
on "fake-right" propaganda feel right. What means that some fogged souls can yet
be saved. Mankind invented ostracism exactly for such purposes: to correct harmful
behaviors in a non-violent way.
EOT. This list is not meant for peddling "fake-right" propaganda.
"Evil not welcome here" sign is at the right place. Let it stay.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie
--
Wojciech S. Czarnecki
<< ^oo^ >> OHIR-RIPE
mortdeus <mort...@gmail.com> napisał(a):
> This ad should have never been put up to begin with
happened to this once democratic country. And not to this country alone.
> this community is far more important (and far larger) than America's general
> incapability to get along with one another.
> Honestly when I saw the ad a few weeks before the election it seriously broke my heart.
If it pains, it works as intended.
> this community being impartial to the radical notion that we have to be
> willing to accept even white supremacists into our ranks, if they like to
> code in the best
to code? No, never! Healthy community shuns off toxic elements.
> loving and deliberately NON-PARTISANLY inclusive community structure
does not, extend to individuals set at destroying either or both.
> that ultimately allows us to defeat them at their own game.
> All I am saying is we need to take down the "conservatives not welcome here" sign.
This is not the only word stolen by nazis, but its theft pains me the most.
> And if me saying that offends you
on "fake-right" propaganda feel right. What means that some fogged souls can yet
be saved. Mankind invented ostracism exactly for such purposes: to correct harmful
behaviors in a non-violent way.
EOT. This list is not meant for peddling "fake-right" propaganda.
"Evil not welcome here" sign is at the right place. Let it stay.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie
--
Wojciech S. Czarnecki
<< ^oo^ >> OHIR-RIPE
mortdeus
Mar 17, 2021, 8:22:03 AM3/17/21
to golang-nuts
The problem is that this inspires a political discussion that obviously should happen with your city council or your therapist. Not with gophers.
Put it this way, what if I said I hated black people (i don't) but I love Go. Is your theory that the best way to ensure you defeat racism is to discourage racists from participating in an inclusive community.
Because I assure you as somebody who grew up in the bay area, but was then forced to spend the last 10 years living in Oklahoma because the Government sucks at their job and can't keep the economy stable enough to protect middle class jobs... that the only reason why people are racist is because frankly they aren't participating in inclusive environments because frankly it's been made blatantly obvious they aren't welcome.
But let's be more honest.
Why do black lives matter more than Syrian lives? America stood idly by as 300,000 innocent people were killed in Syria over the last ten years. (and don't get me started on how many more Iraqi civilians were killed by and covered up America during the same period of time). Don't you see how blatantly outrageous it is to live in a country where it's racist to say "all lives matter" and decide that it's important that the rest of the world, who as a whole suffers way more than anybody fortunate enough to be born in this country, to be forced to realize that while America is annoying their suffering, were doing everything in our power to ensure that our most disadvantaged but overall blessed class gets all the attention.
Im just saying Go is international, and it's an insult to throw American politics in everybody's face, especially when Go is probably literally their only possible ticket to carry them and their family out of real poverty.
We don't need to promote messages that seem positive at first glance but are actually detrimental towards the poor people they claim to want to help pull them up by their bootstraps because society has historically, unfairly pilled on them to keep them down.
Case in point, Black Lives Matter the organization got a huge endorsement from the major labels looking to gain favor in the ultra politicized market, and rather than shut them down and demand that they give back to the black community what is actually owed to this generation of black folk, ( considering this generation is what invented modern music and that was actually appropriated by malicious white snakes), they accepted the endorsment because their real concern isn't gaining "actual justice for black people", their goal is to gain political power for marxist ideals. (on their website they claim to be marxists)
Im just saying black lives matter is a racist political organization, and yes I mean that in the sense that they are racist towards the only people you think can actually be a victim of racism. Black people.
^^^^
All that is why we shouldn't have a political ad on golang.org.
Can i get a religious ad that advocates donating to the homophobic church that Chris Pratt goes to too, you know since that is "fair". Or are you literally saying that you don't want my ilk around even though i've been around since the day v1.0 came out?
Put it this way, what if I said I hated black people (i don't) but I love Go. Is your theory that the best way to ensure you defeat racism is to discourage racists from participating in an inclusive community.
Because I assure you as somebody who grew up in the bay area, but was then forced to spend the last 10 years living in Oklahoma because the Government sucks at their job and can't keep the economy stable enough to protect middle class jobs... that the only reason why people are racist is because frankly they aren't participating in inclusive environments because frankly it's been made blatantly obvious they aren't welcome.
But let's be more honest.
Why do black lives matter more than Syrian lives? America stood idly by as 300,000 innocent people were killed in Syria over the last ten years. (and don't get me started on how many more Iraqi civilians were killed by and covered up America during the same period of time). Don't you see how blatantly outrageous it is to live in a country where it's racist to say "all lives matter" and decide that it's important that the rest of the world, who as a whole suffers way more than anybody fortunate enough to be born in this country, to be forced to realize that while America is annoying their suffering, were doing everything in our power to ensure that our most disadvantaged but overall blessed class gets all the attention.
Im just saying Go is international, and it's an insult to throw American politics in everybody's face, especially when Go is probably literally their only possible ticket to carry them and their family out of real poverty.
We don't need to promote messages that seem positive at first glance but are actually detrimental towards the poor people they claim to want to help pull them up by their bootstraps because society has historically, unfairly pilled on them to keep them down.
Case in point, Black Lives Matter the organization got a huge endorsement from the major labels looking to gain favor in the ultra politicized market, and rather than shut them down and demand that they give back to the black community what is actually owed to this generation of black folk, ( considering this generation is what invented modern music and that was actually appropriated by malicious white snakes), they accepted the endorsment because their real concern isn't gaining "actual justice for black people", their goal is to gain political power for marxist ideals. (on their website they claim to be marxists)
Im just saying black lives matter is a racist political organization, and yes I mean that in the sense that they are racist towards the only people you think can actually be a victim of racism. Black people.
^^^^
All that is why we shouldn't have a political ad on golang.org.
Can i get a religious ad that advocates donating to the homophobic church that Chris Pratt goes to too, you know since that is "fair". Or are you literally saying that you don't want my ilk around even though i've been around since the day v1.0 came out?
mortdeus
Mar 17, 2021, 8:23:11 AM3/17/21
to golang-nuts
is ignoring their suffering*
mortdeus
Mar 17, 2021, 8:24:14 AM3/17/21
to golang-nuts
from the major music labels*
Axel Wagner
Mar 17, 2021, 8:26:57 AM3/17/21
to mortdeus, golang-nuts
On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 1:22 PM mortdeus <mort...@gmail.com> wrote:
The problem is that this inspires a political discussion that obviously should happen with your city council or your therapist. Not with gophers.
Not to point out the obvious, but if you don't want to have a political discussion, it would be wise not to start one.
Again, this has been discussed. I don't see how this thread can end any differently.
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Marvin Renich
Mar 17, 2021, 8:29:33 AM3/17/21
to golang-nuts
* Jan Mercl <0xj...@gmail.com> [210317 06:27]:
When this topic first came up, I tried very hard to convince the Go team
that the banner was wrong, not because of anyone's opinion for or
against the BLM campaign, but because the Go forums are an inappropriate
place for a controversial topic that is completely orthogonal to the
development of the Go language. The banner blatantly violates the Go
team's own Code of Conduct:
• Avoid destructive behavior:
◦ Discussing potentially offensive or sensitive issues; this all too
often leads to unnecessary conflict.
The banner is in clear violation of this part of the COC. With all of
the conflict this banner has caused and is still causing, months later,
how can the Go team justify leaving the banner in place?
...Marvin
that the banner was wrong, not because of anyone's opinion for or
against the BLM campaign, but because the Go forums are an inappropriate
place for a controversial topic that is completely orthogonal to the
development of the Go language. The banner blatantly violates the Go
team's own Code of Conduct:
• Avoid destructive behavior:
◦ Discussing potentially offensive or sensitive issues; this all too
often leads to unnecessary conflict.
The banner is in clear violation of this part of the COC. With all of
the conflict this banner has caused and is still causing, months later,
how can the Go team justify leaving the banner in place?
...Marvin
mortdeus
Mar 17, 2021, 8:33:10 AM3/17/21
to golang-nuts
the only politicking that needs to be going on around here is #TeamGo.
You don't want to live in a world where engineers like Palmer Luckey can have their entire childhood dream taken from them because they had the audacity to literally donate to the Republican version of Obama. Just because stupid hicks out here voted for Donald Trump because they thought he was racist (which is kinda the point why he was talking racist) that doesn't mean their aren't intelligent conservatives in the world who voted for him because they realized he could actually promote conservative policy, which we view for very good reason, as actual solutions to the problems you claim to be the only team worrying about.
For example, I can argue how strong borders actually saves lives in Mexico, while open borders have only promoted the cartel culture that has lead parents to make the heartbreaking decision to send their teenage boys to hop the border so that they don't end up being forced into the cartels which has about a 80% fatality rate before they reach 25.
Are you absolutely SURE you want to keep up the "your not welcome here" sign to people who literally find the message to be dangerous to the very people they claim to want to protect. Do we really want to encourage an opensource culture, where people will literally fork a language just because they don't like the political grandstanding going on because the people who are supposed to be the smartest people in the world are stupid enough to abandon liberal principles for wokeism?
You don't want to live in a world where engineers like Palmer Luckey can have their entire childhood dream taken from them because they had the audacity to literally donate to the Republican version of Obama. Just because stupid hicks out here voted for Donald Trump because they thought he was racist (which is kinda the point why he was talking racist) that doesn't mean their aren't intelligent conservatives in the world who voted for him because they realized he could actually promote conservative policy, which we view for very good reason, as actual solutions to the problems you claim to be the only team worrying about.
For example, I can argue how strong borders actually saves lives in Mexico, while open borders have only promoted the cartel culture that has lead parents to make the heartbreaking decision to send their teenage boys to hop the border so that they don't end up being forced into the cartels which has about a 80% fatality rate before they reach 25.
Are you absolutely SURE you want to keep up the "your not welcome here" sign to people who literally find the message to be dangerous to the very people they claim to want to protect. Do we really want to encourage an opensource culture, where people will literally fork a language just because they don't like the political grandstanding going on because the people who are supposed to be the smartest people in the world are stupid enough to abandon liberal principles for wokeism?
mortdeus
Mar 17, 2021, 8:36:51 AM3/17/21
to golang-nuts
"Not to point out the obvious, but if you don't want to have a political discussion, it would be wise not to start one.
Again, this has been discussed. I don't see how this thread can end any differently."
The way it can end differently is that you have smart people making better arguments so that an actual bipartisan consensus can actually be reached between two very different mindsets.
The idea that you think that a never ending grueling effort to argue the same points over and over again is a waste of time, proves that you don't believe in democracy, because that is how it works. And that is not a flaw, that is it's best feature.
The idea that you think that a never ending grueling effort to argue the same points over and over again is a waste of time, proves that you don't believe in democracy, because that is how it works. And that is not a flaw, that is it's best feature.
mortdeus
Mar 17, 2021, 8:44:15 AM3/17/21
to golang-nuts
im just saying jan mercl has been around as long as I can remember. And frankly he has done way more than I have to help build up this community, and he understands completely why I am making a huge issue about why this community needs to be above politics. Because frankly, it's not as simple as liberals are obviously right, and conservatives are obviously wrong bigots. The banner is inviting the debate, so if you want to have it, then present better counter arguments, or shut up and just take it down already.
Like i said, Donald Trump was defeated. Which is not something im totally unhappy about because frankly I got everything I primarily wanted out of him. (a conservative court that doesn't legislate from the bench) so frankly his usefulness to the party was already spent, and there has never been a candidate more beneficial to the Republican Party's longevity than Joe Biden as President...
So can we please PLEASE, go back to normalcy so that I don't literally see the conservative version of what liberals must feel everytime they drive by a church that has "have you spoken to Jesus today? Because he really misses you and doesn't want you to rot in hell" plastered on the billboard they robbed from a fast food joint.
Like i said, Donald Trump was defeated. Which is not something im totally unhappy about because frankly I got everything I primarily wanted out of him. (a conservative court that doesn't legislate from the bench) so frankly his usefulness to the party was already spent, and there has never been a candidate more beneficial to the Republican Party's longevity than Joe Biden as President...
So can we please PLEASE, go back to normalcy so that I don't literally see the conservative version of what liberals must feel everytime they drive by a church that has "have you spoken to Jesus today? Because he really misses you and doesn't want you to rot in hell" plastered on the billboard they robbed from a fast food joint.
peterGo
Mar 17, 2021, 9:12:15 AM3/17/21
to golang-nuts
On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 6:10:09 AM UTC-4 axel.wa...@googlemail.com wrote:
As such, nothing has really changed since the topic last came up.
I started the original thread titled "political fundraising on golang.org!".
https://groups.google.com/g/golang-nuts/c/YzN4LkMHs7k/
I read Russ Cox's polemic.
https://groups.google.com/g/golang-nuts/c/YzN4LkMHs7k/m/XFtRziMfBgAJ
Every time I see the banner it reminds me of Martin Luther's Disputation on the Power and Efficacy of Indulgences.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninety-five_Theses
Peter
https://groups.google.com/g/golang-nuts/c/YzN4LkMHs7k/
I read Russ Cox's polemic.
https://groups.google.com/g/golang-nuts/c/YzN4LkMHs7k/m/XFtRziMfBgAJ
Every time I see the banner it reminds me of Martin Luther's Disputation on the Power and Efficacy of Indulgences.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninety-five_Theses
Peter
mortdeus
Mar 17, 2021, 9:51:32 AM3/17/21
to golang-nuts
You know what, I just thought of the best analogy to put this argument to rest.
About 10 years ago, when go v1.0 first came out, I like many of the familiar faces in this thread, absolutely fell in love with the language. It was literally like a goldilocks "this one is juuuuuust right" moment for me after being totally disgruntled with all the trade offs you had to suffer with when trying to deal with when trying to learn python, C#, C++, and C. (at the time i had only been programming for about a year)
Since I was a noob hacker, I couldn't contribute to the code in any useful way other than to propose a few bad ideas that eventually did end up getting implemented years down the road. (especially the idea im about to talk about)
One of my bad ideas was that I wanted to create a badge that people could post on their websites they used Go to build, as a means to let the world know that they support the language. The general idea being that the more people who see cool websites being built with Go, the more people would adopt the language.
So I tried to submit a merge request where the front page had these three buttons at the bottom of the page.
And Russ Cox shot me down (for good reason) because while he understood my argument that they should be right there out in front so that everybody knows to actually use them, his argument was better because he pointed out that the main reason why Go rocks is because the front page is minimalistic and as bare bones as possible. He pointed out that other popular language's front pages were absolutely cluttered with a bunch of non essential and somewhat irrelevant information that is bettered suited to say a wiki, rather than being forced upon everybody's eyeballs every time they navigated to go's landing page.
Of course he is correct and honestly he taught me one of the most important lessons that day because despite the fact that my intentions were good and my "theory" was ultimately sound, that doesn't mean the decision is inline with what we were calling "idiomatic go" in terms of what is considered quality engineering and what is considered unnecessary bloat.
The point is that this political banner, (that I just discovered also plagues the pkg.go.dev site) is literally a million times worse, under those very same principles, Russ Cox pointed out than my proposal. Because why my proposal advocated for something I know everybody here can get behind. This ad literally alienates people who don't necessarily agree with the BLM or the equal justice narrative. It creates a morale conflict for many people and all I want is for us to uphold the founding principles this language was founded upon. Because while I was ultimately crushed being rejected, I understood that it was important that I was.
And we all need to understand this is literally just as important. The issue might be the most important thing in the world in your view, that doesn't mean Go should be forced to suffer because everybody in silicon valley is indoctrinated into the revolution.
If we can't promote Go for political self promotion on the front page, why the hell can we promote something political that doesn't even have anything to do with Go?
Are we now a team of hypocrites who no longer have their eyes on the ball? Because frankly, were finally in the world series and the last thing we want to do is strike out when all we have to do is hit a single to get the winning run that wins the game.
About 10 years ago, when go v1.0 first came out, I like many of the familiar faces in this thread, absolutely fell in love with the language. It was literally like a goldilocks "this one is juuuuuust right" moment for me after being totally disgruntled with all the trade offs you had to suffer with when trying to deal with when trying to learn python, C#, C++, and C. (at the time i had only been programming for about a year)
Since I was a noob hacker, I couldn't contribute to the code in any useful way other than to propose a few bad ideas that eventually did end up getting implemented years down the road. (especially the idea im about to talk about)
One of my bad ideas was that I wanted to create a badge that people could post on their websites they used Go to build, as a means to let the world know that they support the language. The general idea being that the more people who see cool websites being built with Go, the more people would adopt the language.
So I tried to submit a merge request where the front page had these three buttons at the bottom of the page.
And Russ Cox shot me down (for good reason) because while he understood my argument that they should be right there out in front so that everybody knows to actually use them, his argument was better because he pointed out that the main reason why Go rocks is because the front page is minimalistic and as bare bones as possible. He pointed out that other popular language's front pages were absolutely cluttered with a bunch of non essential and somewhat irrelevant information that is bettered suited to say a wiki, rather than being forced upon everybody's eyeballs every time they navigated to go's landing page.
Of course he is correct and honestly he taught me one of the most important lessons that day because despite the fact that my intentions were good and my "theory" was ultimately sound, that doesn't mean the decision is inline with what we were calling "idiomatic go" in terms of what is considered quality engineering and what is considered unnecessary bloat.
The point is that this political banner, (that I just discovered also plagues the pkg.go.dev site) is literally a million times worse, under those very same principles, Russ Cox pointed out than my proposal. Because why my proposal advocated for something I know everybody here can get behind. This ad literally alienates people who don't necessarily agree with the BLM or the equal justice narrative. It creates a morale conflict for many people and all I want is for us to uphold the founding principles this language was founded upon. Because while I was ultimately crushed being rejected, I understood that it was important that I was.
And we all need to understand this is literally just as important. The issue might be the most important thing in the world in your view, that doesn't mean Go should be forced to suffer because everybody in silicon valley is indoctrinated into the revolution.
If we can't promote Go for political self promotion on the front page, why the hell can we promote something political that doesn't even have anything to do with Go?
Are we now a team of hypocrites who no longer have their eyes on the ball? Because frankly, were finally in the world series and the last thing we want to do is strike out when all we have to do is hit a single to get the winning run that wins the game.
mortdeus
Mar 17, 2021, 9:57:53 AM3/17/21
to golang-nuts
Im just saying you can literally justify a fork of the language where the only change is to remove this ad from the website code, and everything else is just a mirror and the readme is "the pogo programming language, literally just Go but with the dumb political shit taken out"
And that fork would get 10k likes on github guaranteed.
And yes that is a threat and a theory I so want to test so that I end up getting another article written about me in theregister for literally doing nothing but reposting code somebody else where everybody can actually see it in literally not even that clever of a way.
https://www.theregister.com/2013/03/06/github_ancient_c_repository/
And that fork would get 10k likes on github guaranteed.
And yes that is a threat and a theory I so want to test so that I end up getting another article written about me in theregister for literally doing nothing but reposting code somebody else where everybody can actually see it in literally not even that clever of a way.
https://www.theregister.com/2013/03/06/github_ancient_c_repository/
mortdeus
Mar 17, 2021, 10:00:41 AM3/17/21
to golang-nuts
somebody else wrote.*
Sigh Its time to go to bed, so i can get up in the morning and implement my masterplan if by then the powers that be in this forum haven't bent to my will and restored the goverse to it's rightful balance
Sigh Its time to go to bed, so i can get up in the morning and implement my masterplan if by then the powers that be in this forum haven't bent to my will and restored the goverse to it's rightful balance
mortdeus
Mar 17, 2021, 10:01:56 AM3/17/21
to golang-nuts
you think you know how to protest and get dramatic "total 180 turn-around" results? wait until you see what i can do with a silly sense of humor and a high karma rating on ycombinator news *cracks knuckles*
mortdeus
Mar 17, 2021, 11:52:53 AM3/17/21
to golang-nuts
Just read your thread.
Don't you like how everybody just completely ignored your opening argument that there is a place for politics and there is a place for purity?
They are literally arguing that when you open a science book for say a topic like biology and lets say the authors (who are totally in their right by their way, because it's their book and you can't believe in the first amendment if you don't let them write whatever they believe) insert a new chapter at the beginning that is all about "white's historical (and generally overlooked) racism against blacks in American society and why that technically affects living creatures and therefore is provably scientifically relevant to biology students, not just socioeconomic majors....",
The point is plain and simple, golang.org is like the mona lisa. It's a work of art. You don't spray paint BLM on what's already considered a masterpiece because you want to send a message to the world that black lives matter (so long as you are black Americans and you don't bring up the fact that by far the cause of most unnatural black deaths in America is conducted by another black american and primarily because they don't agree on what black people's favorite color should be)
Yes if you spray paint #BLM on the Mona Lisa its going to piss me the #&$@ off. If you spray paint #breastcancerawareness on the mona lisa, im literally going to pray that you are one of the few male's who get breast cancer and die. If you spray paint #NotMyPresident on one of Hitler's paintings, im literally going to wish a holocaust upon you and your entire family.
Why? Because purity of art and engineer is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar more important than whatever the current political fad is.
25 years ago congress and the rest of America unanimously agreed that gay marriage aught to be banned. The democrat party literally pushed for the primary sponsor of the bill to have the honor of getting her name written down in the history books that will be written from now until pretty much armegeddon (which apparently might come sooner than we think if we keep promoting the seriously retarded idea like the notion of a universal moral superiority within groups like this where it is absolutely most important we remain objective. Were literally the architects paving the way of the future. Not the politicians...)
The leaders of the democrat party have been literally the same people for the last 35 years, and they were deeply offended when a black man came out of nowhere and disrupted the well understood "pecking order" when it comes to who in congress gets to decide to drop bombs on next.
These are the people you want to entrust the well being of black America too?
You know what i find so funny. Is that very rarely, do you ever find black people actually leading these arguments. Name 5 liberal BLACK proponents of BLM that you actually pay attention to on Youtube.
Because I can name 5 "uncle toms" (literally the only more insulting thing than a white person calling a black person the N word is a black person calling another black person a sellout, especially when none of them actually read the damn book to understand the damn morale of the story...)
Literally every day, 22,000 children die in the world due to poverty, most of them being African children. If black lives matter so much to everybody here, then why the hell are you advocating to send your money to a charity that pays it's CEOs $100,000 every year, when that money could literally feed 1,000 kids who are in absolute agony for a year.
The problem is that black lives dont matter to any of you because you can't even conceptualize the reality that your world view IS NOT A SOLUTION.
This is a programming language. The last thing we want to do is hang a huge banner on our front page that says "HEY WERE TRYING TO APPEASE THE WOKE MOB AND KEEP OUR JOBS BUT DONT WORRY WE WILL MAKE SURE WE DONT ACTUALLY SOLVE ANY OF THESE PROBLEMS AND THAT OUR BOSSES WILL BE HAPPY BECAUSE WE REELECTED POLITICIANS WHO WILL RAISE TAXES AND THUS MAKE IT VIRTUALLY 1000X HARDER FOR BLACK PEOPLE OR ANY RACE FOR THAT MATTER TO WORK THEIR WAY UP THE ECONOMIC LADDER WHERE THEY MIGHT ACTUALLY HAVE TO BE CREATIVE ENOUGH TO KEEP -- THEIR -- JOBS".
Screw you all and the politically correct (and expensively trained) horse you rode in on.
You literally spray painted "HEY, were a bunch of morons" and that the rest of world should never use Go.
@ian_lance_taylor
NOW you may lock this thread. (though i am curious why promote the message in the first place and thus invite the obvious toxicity if you aren't going to allow us to debate what is actual lines of code in an opensource project. Has woke censorship gotten so f'n crazy that were no longer to debate what code deserves to be in the repo? Need I remind you what killed plan 9? Need I also remind you what hacker jesus Linus Torvalds, literally the idol we should all worship and follow carefully in his footsteps, would say to LKML if they tried to propose such a moronic idea like merge woke bullshit into the kernel upstream so that url links appears at linux boot time? Oh no, now im giving you idiots good ideas to make MY EXPERIENCE using free software unbearable.)
Seriously, I don't care if you believe this doesn't harm me, it does something far worse. It offends my inner artist who believes you nor anybody else has the right to ruin one of the few things in this life that is actually perfect. Leave my f'n programming language the hell alone. Yes, I said it. MY language. Because if you don't care about this more than your constantly changing jaded political POV, you don't deserve the right to touch MY code.
Don't you like how everybody just completely ignored your opening argument that there is a place for politics and there is a place for purity?
They are literally arguing that when you open a science book for say a topic like biology and lets say the authors (who are totally in their right by their way, because it's their book and you can't believe in the first amendment if you don't let them write whatever they believe) insert a new chapter at the beginning that is all about "white's historical (and generally overlooked) racism against blacks in American society and why that technically affects living creatures and therefore is provably scientifically relevant to biology students, not just socioeconomic majors....",
The point is plain and simple, golang.org is like the mona lisa. It's a work of art. You don't spray paint BLM on what's already considered a masterpiece because you want to send a message to the world that black lives matter (so long as you are black Americans and you don't bring up the fact that by far the cause of most unnatural black deaths in America is conducted by another black american and primarily because they don't agree on what black people's favorite color should be)
Yes if you spray paint #BLM on the Mona Lisa its going to piss me the #&$@ off. If you spray paint #breastcancerawareness on the mona lisa, im literally going to pray that you are one of the few male's who get breast cancer and die. If you spray paint #NotMyPresident on one of Hitler's paintings, im literally going to wish a holocaust upon you and your entire family.
Why? Because purity of art and engineer is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar more important than whatever the current political fad is.
25 years ago congress and the rest of America unanimously agreed that gay marriage aught to be banned. The democrat party literally pushed for the primary sponsor of the bill to have the honor of getting her name written down in the history books that will be written from now until pretty much armegeddon (which apparently might come sooner than we think if we keep promoting the seriously retarded idea like the notion of a universal moral superiority within groups like this where it is absolutely most important we remain objective. Were literally the architects paving the way of the future. Not the politicians...)
The leaders of the democrat party have been literally the same people for the last 35 years, and they were deeply offended when a black man came out of nowhere and disrupted the well understood "pecking order" when it comes to who in congress gets to decide to drop bombs on next.
These are the people you want to entrust the well being of black America too?
You know what i find so funny. Is that very rarely, do you ever find black people actually leading these arguments. Name 5 liberal BLACK proponents of BLM that you actually pay attention to on Youtube.
Because I can name 5 "uncle toms" (literally the only more insulting thing than a white person calling a black person the N word is a black person calling another black person a sellout, especially when none of them actually read the damn book to understand the damn morale of the story...)
Literally every day, 22,000 children die in the world due to poverty, most of them being African children. If black lives matter so much to everybody here, then why the hell are you advocating to send your money to a charity that pays it's CEOs $100,000 every year, when that money could literally feed 1,000 kids who are in absolute agony for a year.
The problem is that black lives dont matter to any of you because you can't even conceptualize the reality that your world view IS NOT A SOLUTION.
This is a programming language. The last thing we want to do is hang a huge banner on our front page that says "HEY WERE TRYING TO APPEASE THE WOKE MOB AND KEEP OUR JOBS BUT DONT WORRY WE WILL MAKE SURE WE DONT ACTUALLY SOLVE ANY OF THESE PROBLEMS AND THAT OUR BOSSES WILL BE HAPPY BECAUSE WE REELECTED POLITICIANS WHO WILL RAISE TAXES AND THUS MAKE IT VIRTUALLY 1000X HARDER FOR BLACK PEOPLE OR ANY RACE FOR THAT MATTER TO WORK THEIR WAY UP THE ECONOMIC LADDER WHERE THEY MIGHT ACTUALLY HAVE TO BE CREATIVE ENOUGH TO KEEP -- THEIR -- JOBS".
Screw you all and the politically correct (and expensively trained) horse you rode in on.
You literally spray painted "HEY, were a bunch of morons" and that the rest of world should never use Go.
@ian_lance_taylor
NOW you may lock this thread. (though i am curious why promote the message in the first place and thus invite the obvious toxicity if you aren't going to allow us to debate what is actual lines of code in an opensource project. Has woke censorship gotten so f'n crazy that were no longer to debate what code deserves to be in the repo? Need I remind you what killed plan 9? Need I also remind you what hacker jesus Linus Torvalds, literally the idol we should all worship and follow carefully in his footsteps, would say to LKML if they tried to propose such a moronic idea like merge woke bullshit into the kernel upstream so that url links appears at linux boot time? Oh no, now im giving you idiots good ideas to make MY EXPERIENCE using free software unbearable.)
Seriously, I don't care if you believe this doesn't harm me, it does something far worse. It offends my inner artist who believes you nor anybody else has the right to ruin one of the few things in this life that is actually perfect. Leave my f'n programming language the hell alone. Yes, I said it. MY language. Because if you don't care about this more than your constantly changing jaded political POV, you don't deserve the right to touch MY code.
On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 8:12:15 AM UTC-5 peterGo wrote:
Message has been deleted
mortdeus
Mar 17, 2021, 12:50:51 PM3/17/21
to golang-nuts
No wonder the rest of the world thinks were complete ignorant assholes.
How about this, if black lives matter, how about we replace the charity link with a religious missionary that specifically aims to feed and vaccinate starving children in Africa using a purely volunteer based workforce.
Because you want to know what the big difference between giving money to a charity and giving money to a mission is?
Literally about 90% difference in the actual dollars being given actually being spent on the cause you think you are buying into.
You don't have to be a rocket scientist (though maybe a business major) to understand that even if you are a "non-profit" literally everybody in your organization is being paid a GUESS WHAT! YOU WONT BELIEVE WHAT IM ABOUT TO SAY!
profit. And the majority of all business expenses (regardless of IRS classification) goes to GUESS WHAT AGAIN, employee compensation.
Every dollar you give to the equal justice initiative, like $0.01 goes to shockingly not a politician (because then perhaps it might actually do some good for somebody somewhere). It goes to WHO THE HELL KNOWS? I looked up their "charity grade" whenever i first saw the banner and was curious if this was going to the democrats (like the majority of all donations to BLM went, they didn't invest in small business for black americans, they literally bought Biden ad time in key battleground municipalities, how does that taste?)
Shockingly, they don't give to politicians. So who the hell are they giving their money too?
Hmmm lets think about this, how do you get "equal justice" in a society where the very meaning of justice is defined by government passing legislation....
Ohhhhhhhhhhh.
They lobby it.
Because I ensure you that the money doesn't go to "informing" black americans that even if they are a high school drop, if all they did was learn say the go programming language, and really do absolutely nothing significant, they can literally pull themselves out of their poverty.
Case in point.
This link shows all the job interview requests I received UNSOLICITED (meaning I didn't reach out to anybody) strictly because I decided to learn Go. A resource that is freely available to anybody with a internet connected device.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/RmHJyiX8sQmPTE6S7
Don't you all realize that we are FAR more powerful than the politicians, the charities, the journalists, the think tanks, the CEOs on Wall Street, the CEOs on Main Street, Hollywood, China, Russia, the entire European Union and the cautionary tale we need to be very observant of the UK that just brexited....
We as a whole created something that can give a loser like me all the economic opportunities in the world despite the fact that I DIDNT MAKE IT PAST MY SOPHOMORE YEAR.
Don't you understand why keeping this project pure of all negative outside influences is important to solving the real systemic issue of POVERTY?
The government can't wave a magic wand and pass a law that fixes the problem of optimal resource allocation for 7 billion people.
But i will tell you, WE CAN DO BETTER.
So why the hell would we ever allow their stupid ideas to pollute what is already pure and brilliant here?
If you truly care about black people, and you believe you need to do something to help them. Walk up to the next black person you see that you can tell doesn't really have any idea where they are going in life career wise, show them that link I posted and say "hey, this annoying asshole "trump supporter" high school drop out can get all of this opportunity just from learning a really simple programming language (which is why we don't need generics but lets save that debate for another day), do you want me to tutor you.
And then you must do the most important and compassionate thing you could ever do for them in their lives.
NOT DO IT FOR FREE.
YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND BLACK PEOPLE IF YOU BELIEVE EQUITY IS NOT AN INSULT BECAUSE I GUARANTEE THEY DONT NEED A HANDICAP AND IT IS AN INSULTING PSYCHOLOGICAL ROBBERY TO GIVE THEM ONE BECAUSE WHEN THEY DO SUCCEED THEY WILL NOT HAVE THE PERSONAL SATISFACTION OF KNOWING IT WAS ONLY BECAUSE THEY WERE THE ABSOLUTE BEST.
And then after you realize, "hey I can actually make 1 life better. I can actually quantify this change. I can be the change i want to see in the world"
Then perhaps you will understand why I am offended. Because if this is a competition to help pull black people out of poverty. Im literally beating all of you single handedly.
How about this, if black lives matter, how about we replace the charity link with a religious missionary that specifically aims to feed and vaccinate starving children in Africa using a purely volunteer based workforce.
Because you want to know what the big difference between giving money to a charity and giving money to a mission is?
Literally about 90% difference in the actual dollars being given actually being spent on the cause you think you are buying into.
You don't have to be a rocket scientist (though maybe a business major) to understand that even if you are a "non-profit" literally everybody in your organization is being paid a GUESS WHAT! YOU WONT BELIEVE WHAT IM ABOUT TO SAY!
profit. And the majority of all business expenses (regardless of IRS classification) goes to GUESS WHAT AGAIN, employee compensation.
Every dollar you give to the equal justice initiative, like $0.01 goes to shockingly not a politician (because then perhaps it might actually do some good for somebody somewhere). It goes to WHO THE HELL KNOWS? I looked up their "charity grade" whenever i first saw the banner and was curious if this was going to the democrats (like the majority of all donations to BLM went, they didn't invest in small business for black americans, they literally bought Biden ad time in key battleground municipalities, how does that taste?)
Shockingly, they don't give to politicians. So who the hell are they giving their money too?
Hmmm lets think about this, how do you get "equal justice" in a society where the very meaning of justice is defined by government passing legislation....
Ohhhhhhhhhhh.
They lobby it.
Because I ensure you that the money doesn't go to "informing" black americans that even if they are a high school drop, if all they did was learn say the go programming language, and really do absolutely nothing significant, they can literally pull themselves out of their poverty.
Case in point.
This link shows all the job interview requests I received UNSOLICITED (meaning I didn't reach out to anybody) strictly because I decided to learn Go. A resource that is freely available to anybody with a internet connected device.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/RmHJyiX8sQmPTE6S7
Don't you all realize that we are FAR more powerful than the politicians, the charities, the journalists, the think tanks, the CEOs on Wall Street, the CEOs on Main Street, Hollywood, China, Russia, the entire European Union and the cautionary tale we need to be very observant of the UK that just brexited....
We as a whole created something that can give a loser like me all the economic opportunities in the world despite the fact that I DIDNT MAKE IT PAST MY SOPHOMORE YEAR.
Don't you understand why keeping this project pure of all negative outside influences is important to solving the real systemic issue of POVERTY?
The government can't wave a magic wand and pass a law that fixes the problem of optimal resource allocation for 7 billion people.
But i will tell you, WE CAN DO BETTER.
So why the hell would we ever allow their stupid ideas to pollute what is already pure and brilliant here?
If you truly care about black people, and you believe you need to do something to help them. Walk up to the next black person you see that you can tell doesn't really have any idea where they are going in life career wise, show them that link I posted and say "hey, this annoying asshole "trump supporter" high school drop out can get all of this opportunity just from learning a really simple programming language (which is why we don't need generics but lets save that debate for another day), do you want me to tutor you.
And then you must do the most important and compassionate thing you could ever do for them in their lives.
NOT DO IT FOR FREE.
YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND BLACK PEOPLE IF YOU BELIEVE EQUITY IS NOT AN INSULT BECAUSE I GUARANTEE THEY DONT NEED A HANDICAP AND IT IS AN INSULTING PSYCHOLOGICAL ROBBERY TO GIVE THEM ONE BECAUSE WHEN THEY DO SUCCEED THEY WILL NOT HAVE THE PERSONAL SATISFACTION OF KNOWING IT WAS ONLY BECAUSE THEY WERE THE ABSOLUTE BEST.
And then after you realize, "hey I can actually make 1 life better. I can actually quantify this change. I can be the change i want to see in the world"
Then perhaps you will understand why I am offended. Because if this is a competition to help pull black people out of poverty. Im literally beating all of you single handedly.
mortdeus
Mar 17, 2021, 1:00:46 PM3/17/21
to golang-nuts
This is why my opinion alone should carry more weight than all of yours combined.
Take the stupid ad down, and instead lets promote a culture that actually works to address the issues of poverty using the tools we actually built.
Why give money to a charity, when you can pour that money into something WE CAN BUILD that aims to communicate to the world that it's really f'n easy to replicate our success.
Like I said im a total loser. Too ADHD and weirdly insecure to actually pursue any of the opportunities.
But the point is that the opportunities came to me. Politicians can't give anybody that kind of stupid convenience.
We can. That is why we need to be above political messaging. We don't want to fuck up what we somehow stumbled upon and this is literally threatening to do just that, because im not going to use the language until it's gone and frankly i wont be the only veteran around here who will slowly lose faith in the language each and every time they go to golang and they are like "ahhh fuck, this dumb shit again?"
Its literally dumb shit, and if I haven't convinced you of that, then PROVE IT.
Propose a better solution. Prove that the dollars we all collectively gave to EJI since this banner was posted has helped more Black People than Mortdeus, the republican crank who annoys the shit out of google engineers, has.
Sincerely you only need to find data to suggest that they've helped pull like 2-3 black people out of poverty thanks to all of your "compassionate" investments.
Take the stupid ad down, and instead lets promote a culture that actually works to address the issues of poverty using the tools we actually built.
Why give money to a charity, when you can pour that money into something WE CAN BUILD that aims to communicate to the world that it's really f'n easy to replicate our success.
Like I said im a total loser. Too ADHD and weirdly insecure to actually pursue any of the opportunities.
But the point is that the opportunities came to me. Politicians can't give anybody that kind of stupid convenience.
We can. That is why we need to be above political messaging. We don't want to fuck up what we somehow stumbled upon and this is literally threatening to do just that, because im not going to use the language until it's gone and frankly i wont be the only veteran around here who will slowly lose faith in the language each and every time they go to golang and they are like "ahhh fuck, this dumb shit again?"
Its literally dumb shit, and if I haven't convinced you of that, then PROVE IT.
Propose a better solution. Prove that the dollars we all collectively gave to EJI since this banner was posted has helped more Black People than Mortdeus, the republican crank who annoys the shit out of google engineers, has.
Sincerely you only need to find data to suggest that they've helped pull like 2-3 black people out of poverty thanks to all of your "compassionate" investments.
Message has been deleted
Ian Lance Taylor
Mar 17, 2021, 1:04:12 PM3/17/21
to mortdeus, golang-nuts
I count sixteen messages from you in this thread. Please stop.
Ian
Carla Pfaff
Mar 17, 2021, 1:04:19 PM3/17/21
to golang-nuts
It's not an uncommon practice for teams that run a public website to raise awareness for a good cause, usually by supporting fundraising for a social nonprofit charitable organization. Some choose a children's cancer charity or the Wikimedia foundation, this is what the Go team chose. This does not mean that other issues in the world are not important.
The Go project has never been a sterile place, it always had a personal touch from its creators, see for example the cute gopher drawings. It's also not a science centric community (btw, science is political too, always has been) nor is the Go website the Mona Lisa.
mortdeus
Mar 17, 2021, 1:26:19 PM3/17/21
to golang-nuts
No Go is literally a 1000x bigger achievement than the Mona Lisa, because somehow we managed to get a bunch of people to come together and somehow create a miracle of engineering.
In a perfect world, where the market also adopts the most efficient technological solutions.
Plan 9 should have been the operating system that ruled the Earth and became essentially what Linux is today. The OS that runs the world.
And if that did actually happen, we'd honestly be a dramatically different technological landscape. Essentially the "cloud" would have been done 20 years earlier and it wouldn't be owned by big tech corporations. Every device you use would be connected with every device everybody else uses. A lot of ugly unix hacks like docker, filecoin, dropbox, hell even facebook, twitter etc wouldn't actually exist like they do today if we simply just kept letting Rob Pike and Ken Thompson lead the way to our utopian computation destiny.
The reason why I say Go is a miracle, is because some how they managed to take most of the truly revolutionary ideas that made plan 9 superior to Unix in every way, and basically give unix a huge buff that makes about 75% of the serious grievances we suffer from being stuck in a "HELP WE CANT GET THE WORLD TO MOVE ON FROM UNIX" dilemma.
Rob has a really important paper talking about this where the reason why plan 9 failed is because it wasn't a "big" enough improvement over Unix, because its not like Ford introducing the car to replace the horse. It's literally like trying to convince the world to replace their cheap $1500 reused sedan for a Tesla model 3 when the only thing 99% of people care about is whether they can get to work everyday (without breaking the bank.)
The point is that plan 9 is literally the tesla roadster, but because everybody is pretty used to their Ford Model T, they don't change to the obviously optimal "technological progression" that paves the way to even greater innovations like who knows jetson esque flying cars.
Go is a miracle because somehow it is an actually "beautiful" Unix hack in the sense that the mad scientists here have somehow managed to bring all the tesla perks to the model T you already own, and not only have we saved the world from climate chain, but it literally was free of cost.
Its not the greatest metaphor, but my point is that if I had to choose between burning the Mona Lisa or cp -r * all the goroots in the world, and I only considered the merit of which work of art is the greater testament to the potential of humanity (and why the aliens should ultimately retain faith in us and spare us despite all the horrors they would witness if they decided to touched down now); obviously I would burn the bitch.
And I don't say that lightly because I view Davinci as literally the role model every engineer should aspire to become a poor imitation of. But still his magnus opus doesn't even come close to how much more beautiful Go is in comparison.
In a perfect world, where the market also adopts the most efficient technological solutions.
Plan 9 should have been the operating system that ruled the Earth and became essentially what Linux is today. The OS that runs the world.
And if that did actually happen, we'd honestly be a dramatically different technological landscape. Essentially the "cloud" would have been done 20 years earlier and it wouldn't be owned by big tech corporations. Every device you use would be connected with every device everybody else uses. A lot of ugly unix hacks like docker, filecoin, dropbox, hell even facebook, twitter etc wouldn't actually exist like they do today if we simply just kept letting Rob Pike and Ken Thompson lead the way to our utopian computation destiny.
The reason why I say Go is a miracle, is because some how they managed to take most of the truly revolutionary ideas that made plan 9 superior to Unix in every way, and basically give unix a huge buff that makes about 75% of the serious grievances we suffer from being stuck in a "HELP WE CANT GET THE WORLD TO MOVE ON FROM UNIX" dilemma.
Rob has a really important paper talking about this where the reason why plan 9 failed is because it wasn't a "big" enough improvement over Unix, because its not like Ford introducing the car to replace the horse. It's literally like trying to convince the world to replace their cheap $1500 reused sedan for a Tesla model 3 when the only thing 99% of people care about is whether they can get to work everyday (without breaking the bank.)
The point is that plan 9 is literally the tesla roadster, but because everybody is pretty used to their Ford Model T, they don't change to the obviously optimal "technological progression" that paves the way to even greater innovations like who knows jetson esque flying cars.
Go is a miracle because somehow it is an actually "beautiful" Unix hack in the sense that the mad scientists here have somehow managed to bring all the tesla perks to the model T you already own, and not only have we saved the world from climate chain, but it literally was free of cost.
Its not the greatest metaphor, but my point is that if I had to choose between burning the Mona Lisa or cp -r * all the goroots in the world, and I only considered the merit of which work of art is the greater testament to the potential of humanity (and why the aliens should ultimately retain faith in us and spare us despite all the horrors they would witness if they decided to touched down now); obviously I would burn the bitch.
And I don't say that lightly because I view Davinci as literally the role model every engineer should aspire to become a poor imitation of. But still his magnus opus doesn't even come close to how much more beautiful Go is in comparison.
mortdeus
Mar 17, 2021, 1:28:28 PM3/17/21
to golang-nuts
I literally don't want the banner because I don't like the way it looks. It's really like an ocd thing for me. And you all need to understand, that is extremely important. Way more important than your political concerns. Because like I said, a tool like this is honestly the only effective way to implement the change you all claim to be advocates for. That is why it needs to remain unmolested.
mortdeus
Mar 17, 2021, 1:32:42 PM3/17/21
to golang-nuts
There is a reason why Steve Jobs spent all the day, yelling at you stubborn #&@#s for not getting why Bob Dylan is an essential component to why Apple is now the most valuable company in the world.
If what I am saying sounds crazy, just know you thought my ideas were the dopest ideas in SV when he crammed everything I just said ^ into "Think Different" and had the cult of personality thing going for him, so you would all just listen and do.
If what I am saying sounds crazy, just know you thought my ideas were the dopest ideas in SV when he crammed everything I just said ^ into "Think Different" and had the cult of personality thing going for him, so you would all just listen and do.
mortdeus
Mar 17, 2021, 1:38:21 PM3/17/21
to golang-nuts
Steve Jobs is literally on tape saying he doesn't believe in equality of outcome, only equality of opportunity.
Therefore respect his ghost, and get rid of the stupid ad. That's the least you owe him for making unix at least look sexy. It might not perform all that well in bed (though with a little Go who knows ;) ) but who needs skill when its so hot its over before it even really began.
Everybody is saying it's "common" for organizations to advocate for political agendas.
Who? Start from the top of the most important open source communities and post pictures of them supporting black lives matter riots, and frankly ill shut up to Ian's great relief.
Therefore respect his ghost, and get rid of the stupid ad. That's the least you owe him for making unix at least look sexy. It might not perform all that well in bed (though with a little Go who knows ;) ) but who needs skill when its so hot its over before it even really began.
Everybody is saying it's "common" for organizations to advocate for political agendas.
Who? Start from the top of the most important open source communities and post pictures of them supporting black lives matter riots, and frankly ill shut up to Ian's great relief.
Kurtis Rader
Mar 17, 2021, 1:40:19 PM3/17/21
to golang-nuts
Ian, This individual is either trolling us or suffering some sort of psychological crisis that warrants intervention by a mental health professional. Either way I think we've all had quite enough of their rants and their behavior warrants banning from this mailing list.
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Kurtis Rader
Caretaker of the exceptional canines Junior and Hank
mortdeus
Mar 17, 2021, 1:59:52 PM3/17/21
to golang-nuts
"Ian, This individual is either trolling us or suffering some sort of psychological crisis that warrants intervention by a mental health professional."
Somewhere in the middle, but mostly drunk and extremely aggravated.If what I am saying is annoying you to the point that you want to ban me. Then just understand that unlike you, I don't get the option to magically "ban" away the seriously offensive to conservative political ads.
Just because you don't understand why BLM "triggers" us. (to use your terminology) is because you weren't on the other side being persecuted for your beliefs during this past election.
What's the goal here, to be inclusive to everybody regardless of sex, race, religion. Or to literally say we draw a line at religion. Because that is what a political ideology is. Dogma you subscribe to so faithfully that you convinced you are the only one that is saved and the rest of the world be damned.
Ban me, because honestly you'd probably be doing me a favor. But like I mentioned earlier, this is the one issue that is actually heartbreaking to me. The idea that in order to be a Good Gopher you best vote for Joe Biden.
idk im done. ive said all that needed to be said. do what you will, but just understand that nobody here will have any excuses if it turns out that the cranks like myself were right in shouting at the top of their lungs "HEEEEEY YOU REALLLLLLLLY DONT WANT TO FOLLOW THE RABBIT DOWN THAT HOLE UNLESS YOU ARE ALICE"
You aren't Alice and this story wasn't written with you in mind.
Rusco
Mar 17, 2021, 2:47:33 PM3/17/21
to golang-nuts
afaik George Soros is behind the BLM Campaign, this alone justifies removing the banner. From now on the Golang Community should be inclusive and tolerate all political opinions. Seems to be harder than writing speedy go code ...
Space A.
Mar 18, 2021, 8:34:06 AM3/18/21
to golang-nuts
Btw, when this started (see original thread) I compared some main pages of websites of popular languages. And you know what? I didn't find stupid banner on Java or Rust websites, and on many others. Maybe they were smart enough to show it only to US visitors, idk. Anyways, Russ Cox obviously thinks that there is no other world, so...
"
To people who object to the banner as too focused on the United States:
Google and Go both started here, nearly all of the Go team is here, a
substantial number of Go community members live here, and many others
travel here for conferences or other reasons. The situation here affects
gophers worldwide.
"
So if you live outside of US, and contributed to the language or ecosystem you can literally go to hell, as according to him, only US-related activity counts and matters.
Actually "situation there" does not affect me because I use ABP, but funny thing is there is chance that Go will become first programming language ever whose website will end up in spam filters.
среда, 17 марта 2021 г. в 21:47:33 UTC+3, Rusco:
Thomas Bushnell BSG
Mar 18, 2021, 1:08:51 PM3/18/21
to mortdeus, golang-nuts
On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 8:22 AM mortdeus <mort...@gmail.com> wrote:
The problem is that this inspires a political discussion that obviously should happen with your city council or your therapist. Not with gophers.
If you don't believe the political discussion should happen, then I would recommend you resist the impulse to keep starting one.
Thomas
Thomas Bushnell BSG
Mar 18, 2021, 1:09:41 PM3/18/21
to mortdeus, golang-nuts
On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 8:22 AM mortdeus <mort...@gmail.com> wrote:
Why do black lives matter more than Syrian lives?
Nobody said they do. The banner does not make any comparisons.
Thomas
Thomas Bushnell BSG
Mar 18, 2021, 1:11:09 PM3/18/21
to mortdeus, golang-nuts
On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 8:33 AM mortdeus <mort...@gmail.com> wrote:
Are you absolutely SURE you want to keep up the "your not welcome here" sign to people who literally find the message to be dangerous to the very people they claim to want to protect. Do we really want to encourage an opensource culture, where people will literally fork a language just because they don't like the political grandstanding going on because the people who are supposed to be the smartest people in the world are stupid enough to abandon liberal principles for wokeism?
I cannot speak for the Go authors, and I certainly cannot speak for Google, but I can say for my part that I want a very clear and very bright sign that racists are not welcome here, no matter how brilliantly they can write computer programs.
Thomas
Andrew Bonventre
Mar 18, 2021, 1:44:53 PM3/18/21
to golang-nuts
This conversation has not been adhering to Go’s values of being respectful and charitable with each other. I’d like to request it come to an end.
Additionally, please do not make assumptions about specific members of the community and their role in things. I was “in charge” of the Go websites when this banner was launched and I stand by any decision those on the core team make on this. Targeting Russ is inappropriate and unfounded.
Thanks,
Andy
Space A.
Mar 18, 2021, 2:37:27 PM3/18/21
to Thomas Bushnell BSG, mortdeus, golang-nuts
>
that racists are not welcome here
You probably mean white racists?
But black are welcomed.
I also very like this cite:
“It should be noted that no ethically -trained software engineer would ever consent to write a DestroyBaghdad procedure. Basic professional ethics would instead require him to write a DestroyCity procedure, to which Baghdad could be given as a parameter.”
― Nathaniel S. Borenstein
― Nathaniel S. Borenstein
чт, 18 мар. 2021 г. в 20:11, 'Thomas Bushnell BSG' via golang-nuts <golan...@googlegroups.com>:
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Space A.
Mar 18, 2021, 2:39:54 PM3/18/21
to Andrew Bonventre, golang-nuts
Sorry but if you don't want to be targeted, resign from your manager's position. Less responsibility, less spotlight, and still good compensation package from Google.
чт, 18 мар. 2021 г. в 20:45, Andrew Bonventre <andy...@golang.org>:
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Ian Lance Taylor
Mar 18, 2021, 2:41:20 PM3/18/21
to Space A., Thomas Bushnell BSG, mortdeus, golang-nuts
On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 11:37 AM Space A. <reexi...@gmail.com> wrote:
[ omitted ]
This message does not follow the Go Community Code of Conduct
(https://golang.org/conduct). On this mailing list we ask everybody
to follow those guidelines. Please respect that. Thank you.
Ian
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