Document services (those who wanted the contact)

[Carvalho]

Dear members,

Here is his website which offers a host of services among which is researching documents.

https://goadocuments.com/

The email is: file...@gmail.com

take care,

Selma

[Frederick Noronha]

Better to check credentials before sharing. Sometimes one comes across agents who help in corrupting the system while acting as if they are offering "solutions". The land sector too is full of such types. Part of the game can be to make the official system "unworkable". FN

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[Carvalho]

Dear Frederick,

What do you propose I do? Run a criminal police check on the man? How about electoral fraud or tax evasion? The man provides a service. In my opinion he charges a nominal fee. If he delivers you continue with the relationship. If not you move on. That is how capitalistic relationships work, isn't it?

Honestly, I find this Goan penchant for conspiracy theories quite exhausting. I realise it's a sort of cultural thing. Every Goan has a conspiracy theory. They are very suspicious of everyone and everything except their politicians and homeopaths. Those they trust profoundly.

This is the reason I didn't want to share the contact.

All best wishes,

Selma

 

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAMCR53%2BW7zus43zhKC_oaJxBOFyFX6SMZfh76pL9qJrOGWW5jw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Crispino Lobo]

Thank you Selma!

Regards.

Crispino

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__________________________________________________________

Phone: +91 9422226521        

Email Id : cslobo1@gmail.com

Website: www.wotr.org

        

[Frederick Noronha]

So how does a private entity (without even a name mentioned on the website https://goadocuments.com/) manage to offer access to so many government documents, old Portuguese passports from Goa, matriz records, property title documents, property surveys, property identification by owners, notarial deeds for properties, old para viagem documents ... which are next to impossible to come by in the normal course in today's Goa? FN

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/68694010.1839380.1683110676213%40mail.yahoo.com.

[Carvalho]

The researcher has located the records I needed and applied for a copy of them. All receipts associated with the cost of this search were emailed to me. I found the rates to be very reasonable and the response time professional. Hope this helps.

All best,

Selma

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAMCR53L3sJD3d1ZJHPecGDjjqAUeM1XMJADTqhwySw8qoh0-eA%40mail.gmail.com.

[frederic...@gmail.com]

Everyone is happy when their "job" gets done.

But this still leaves the earlier questions unanswered. FN

[Carvalho]

Dear Frederick,

I understand you are referring to 'agents' who engender corruption. I understand now no government agency deals with the public directly. They want 'agents' to do it and the agent and the officials share a cut. That again is something for Goans to sort out. The levels of corruption, inefficiency and malpractice in every artery of governance in Goa does not bode well.

However, that is an entirely different discussion. There are many people on this forum who are pursuing their own family trees and I think the source I have shared is a good one for those who can't make the trip to Goa or want to spend their time at an archive.

Hope that helps.

Selma

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/a03b1ca8-c93e-417d-9bf2-5007dd796cffn%40googlegroups.com.

[Roland Francis]

Indeed Selma and we thank you for it.

Roland.

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/1632312015.2546313.1683312306991%40mail.yahoo.com.

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416-453-3371

[Rafael Moreira]

Selma, I ENTIRELY agree with you as for Goa's decadence! A real pity…
Yours, R.M.

>> documents, old Portuguese passports from Goa, *matriz* records, property

>> title documents, property surveys, property identification by owners,

>> notarial deeds for properties, old *para viagem* documents ... which are

>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/316463997.1650660.1683050780808%40mail.yahoo.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>> .

>>
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>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAMCR53%2BW7zus43zhKC_oaJxBOFyFX6SMZfh76pL9qJrOGWW5jw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>> .

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>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/68694010.1839380.1683110676213%40mail.yahoo.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>> .

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>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAMCR53L3sJD3d1ZJHPecGDjjqAUeM1XMJADTqhwySw8qoh0-eA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
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> 416-453-3371

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[John Nazareth]

Hi Selma

 

In working on one’s family tree this kind of service works sometimes, but not others.

In cases where one is looking for records on specific people it is pretty good and beats having to travel to Goa just to get what you need.

In my case as I wanted to build my tree backwards (to find my ancestors) and then forwards again (to find my current day relatives) I needed to see the books, locate potential records of interest, translate the key elements on the spot and log them in a notebook. Then I came back home and created the tree. This I did over 2 visits and made notes on 250 records.

 

Somehow the Archives let the Mormons take pictures of baptisms/marriages/death records (by book page) for ever village from 1914 to around 1980. In Dec 2015 they digitized the photographs and put them online.

It would be good if the same could be done for records going back. The money can easily be raised, but it needs the will in the part of the Archives.

 

John

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/777649581.2435445.1683285011167%40mail.yahoo.com.

[Carvalho]

Dear John,

I agree with you. Having the books with you helps a lot. When I was researching the artist F. N. Souza's birth records, I accidentally came across his sister's records, and I could see clearly the various relationships and connections. I did this through the Mormon archive of Goa records. (Scanning techniques have improved considerably though since the Mormon's scanned the Goa records which are not easy to decipher on the microfiche. I think latterly they're available online.)

Take care,

Selma

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/IA1PR11MB614765FF6E1FA9D4FDF153C5FF729%40IA1PR11MB6147.namprd11.prod.outlook.com.

[Frederick Noronha]

How did State records reach Mormon hands, but are still so difficult to access for the average citizen from government sources in Panjim itself?

Please see the data collection that's happening when you try to access this database. FN

Why does the Mormon Church want state records? And what do they do with them?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-05/why-does-the-mormon-church-want-state-records/9943288

Mormon Church Limits Access to Controversial Baptism Records (2012)
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2012/03/09/148318491/mormon-church-limits-access-to-controversial-baptism-records

Genealogy and the Mormon Archives

https://www.pbs.org/mormons/etc/genealogy.html

The Mormon/Jewish Controversy: What Really Happened  https://www.avotaynu.com/mormon.htm

[John Nazareth]

Whatever anyone believes cannot change what is reality in God’s eyes.

Because of that I’ve never had any reticence about using their database.

Their intentions are good and that is fine with me.

Incidentally, I was not asked whether I was a Mormon when I applied for an account (which is free).

 

I have gone way before the 1914 date so it is now of little use to me.

But I take hope that if someone once persuaded the Goa government to let them take photos of the documents from 1914 to 1980 then there is hope that we could get earlier records done likewise if we “press the right buttons” so to speak.

 

Note that this data is useful for genealogy purposes only because it will not be accepted as bonafide for any documentary purposes like passports.

 

John

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAMCR53%2BAV02Vs%2BW0B7SkuftGhaDJLRdEh9yp8rvNk%3D-SNbE4Gg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Carvalho]

Dear John,

Neither was I asked if I was a Mormon and I'm talking back in the days when it wasn't available online but was homed at the National Archives and we had to drive up there, pay a nominal charge for an account and then access it on microfiche. 

If only some 'Mormon' in Goa felt compelled to preserve records as the Mormons in Utah do, we would all be in a better place.

One has to admire Qatar, they have preserved records pertaining to their history with the Qatar Digital Library. These records don't belong to them, they belong to the British Library but they have collaborated with them and set up their own project to preserve and make available to the public their past. Actually at one point I wanted to do something similar with all the research I had which I had photocopied from various archives but I understand from my techy husband that the cataloguing of it online is not a simple matter, it requires very specialised software. So I gave up that idea. Also since 2016, after photography became permissible in the archives, we all stopped photocopying.

If only, if only, we were one bit as ambitious instead of looking for motives everywhere.

Take care,

Selma

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/IA1PR11MB61478031C06320181EB9C34AFF729%40IA1PR11MB6147.namprd11.prod.outlook.com.

[PEDRO MASCARENHAS]

Shortly after Mozambique's independence, a local newspaper accused the Mormons of being CIA agents. I don't know how the matter ended, but at that time Americans were worried about the support given by the Soviet Union.

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAMCR53%2BAV02Vs%2BW0B7SkuftGhaDJLRdEh9yp8rvNk%3D-SNbE4Gg%40mail.gmail.com.

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Pedro Mascarenhas

[lourdes fatima bravodacosta]

Regarding the church documents in possession with the Mormons are from the
government source. the Mormons were not allowed to copy documents by the
then director P.P.Shirodkar and he also vetoed the proposal of copying the
newspapers collection in the Central Library. If I am not mistaken the
Mormons copied from the archives of the church records, at Altinho.
Maria de Lourdes
On Sat, 06 May 2023 15:21:06 +0530 PEDRO MASCARENHAS
wrote

>Shortly after Mozambique's independence, a local newspaper accused the
Mormons of being CIA agents. I don't know how the matter ended, but at that
time Americans were worried about the support given by the Soviet Union.

Frederick Noronha escreveu no dia sexta,

5/05/2023 à(s) 23:25:
How did State records reach Mormon hands, but are still so difficult to
access for the average citizen from government sources in Panjim itself?

Please see the data collection that's happening when you try to access this
database. FN
Why does the Mormon Church want state records? And what do they do with
them?https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-05/why-does-the-mormon-church-want-
state-records/9943288
Mormon Church Limits Access to Controversial Baptism Records (2012)
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2012/03/09/148318491/mormon-church-
limits-access-to-controversial-baptism-records
Genealogy and the Mormon

Archiveshttps://www.pbs.org/mormons/etc/genealogy.html

The Mormon/Jewish Controversy: What Really Happened
 https://www.avotaynu.com/mormon.htm

On Sat, 6 May 2023 at 02:30, John Nazareth wrote:








Hi Selma
 
In working on one’s family tree this kind of service works sometimes, but
not others.
In cases where one is looking for records on specific people it is pretty
good and beats having to travel to Goa just to get what you need.
In my case as I wanted to build my tree backwards (to find my ancestors) and
then forwards again (to find my current day relatives) I needed to see the
books, locate potential records of interest,
translate the key elements on the spot and log them in a notebook. Then I
came back home and created the tree. This I did over 2 visits and made notes
on 250 records.
 
Somehow the Archives let the Mormons take pictures of
baptisms/marriages/death records (by book page) for ever village from 1914
to around 1980. In Dec 2015 they digitized the photographs and put
them online.
It would be good if the same could be done for records going back. The money
can easily be raised, but it needs the will in the part of the Archives.
 
John
 


From: 'Carvalho' via Goa-Research-Net

Sent: Friday, May 5, 2023 7:10 AM

To: goa-rese...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [GRN] Document services (those who wanted the contact)


 


The researcher has located the records I needed and applied for a copy of
them. All receipts associated with the cost of this search were emailed to
me. I found the rates
to be very reasonable and the response time professional. Hope this helps.


 


All best,


Selma


 





On Wednesday, 3 May 2023 at 16:48:11 BST, Frederick Noronha

wrote:



 


 





So how does a private entity (without even a name mentioned on the website
https://goadocuments.com/) manage to offer access to so many government
documents, old Portuguese passports from Goa,
matriz records, property title documents, property surveys, property
identification by owners, notarial deeds for properties, old
para viagem documents ... which are next to impossible to come by in the
normal course in today's Goa? FN

 

On Wed, 3 May 2023 at 16:14, 'Carvalho' via Goa-Research-Net n...@googlegroups.com>

wrote:





Dear Frederick,


 


What do you propose I do? Run a criminal police check on the man? How about
electoral fraud or tax evasion? The man provides a service. In my opinion he
charges
a nominal fee. If he delivers you continue with the relationship. If not
you move on. That is how capitalistic relationships work, isn't it?


 


Honestly, I find this Goan penchant for conspiracy theories quite
exhausting. I realise it's a sort of cultural thing. Every Goan has a
conspiracy theory. They
are very suspicious of everyone and everything except their politicians and
homeopaths. Those they trust profoundly.


 


This is the reason I didn't want to share the contact.


 


All best wishes,


Selma


 


 





On Wednesday, 3 May 2023 at 10:34:18 BST, Frederick Noronha

wrote:



 


 





Better to check credentials before sharing. Sometimes one comes across
agents who help in corrupting the system while acting as if they are
offering "solutions".
The land sector too is full of such types. Part of the game can be to make
the official system "unworkable". FN

 

On Tue, 2 May 2023 at 23:36, 'Carvalho' via Goa-Research-Net n...@googlegroups.com>

net/CAMCR53%2BW7zus43zhKC_oaJxBOFyFX6SMZfh76pL9qJrOGWW5jw%40mail.gmail.com.

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[Frederick Noronha]

You can search some Goa birth records here:

https://goaulbservice.gov.in/Birth.aspx

Not sure how effective, haven't used it.

More links on the Forebears site:

https://forebears.io/india/goa

This is what Roland Francis wrote in 2012 (Goanet):

https://www.mail-archive.com/goa...@lists.goanet.org/msg85448.html

It may or may not be a proper understanding of the motives of the Mormons "that more people should be included and they undertook the work at their own effort and expense, starting with Goa."

FN

[Frederick Noronha]

On Sat, 6 May 2023 at 09:59, 'Carvalho' via Goa-Research-Net <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

One has to admire Qatar, they have preserved records pertaining to their history with the Qatar Digital Library. These records don't belong to them, they belong to the British Library but they have collaborated with them and set up their own project to preserve and make available to the public their past. Actually at one point I wanted to do something similar with all the research I had which I had photocopied from various archives but I understand from my techy husband that the cataloguing of it online is not a simple matter, it requires very specialised software. So I gave up that idea. Also since 2016, after photography became permissible in the archives, we all stopped photocopying. 

I think the "Million Book Project" [http://www.ulib.org/] is far more impressive in its scope and conceptualisation. That the Indian-origin prof Raj Reddy [http://www.rr.cs.cmu.edu/mbdl.htm] played a crucial role, makes it even more interesting. It is the reason why we keep finding PDFs of even Goa-related books (from disparate libraries) surfacing all over the place... often when we didn't even know these existed!

Two descriptions of the MBP:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Million_Book_Project

https://web.archive.org/web/20080614093014/http://lbslibrary.typepad.com/bizresearch/2007/11/the-million-boo.html

Getting a scanned, copyright-unencumbered book online isn't too difficult a task. One can just upload the same to archive.org My collection is here: https://archive.org/details/goa1556 It's a mix of mostly audio + PDF files (also recordings, interviews, music), and they allocated a separate folder on which to store it. Not particularly academic, though. FN

[Victor Rangel-ribeiro]

That's encouraging news, Selma! I wish you all success,

Victor

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/777649581.2435445.1683285011167%40mail.yahoo.com.

[Carvalho]

Dear Frederick,

While this is impressive, please note the publisher does not own the rights to publish the books they have published in any format other than that agreed in the original agreement, which is usually hardback, paperback and e-book format. They may further agree translation rights, film rights, etc. If at all an entire book is to be made available for free, I hope it has been agreed with the author. 

All best,

Selma

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[Frederick Noronha]

Sure, I'd know that. 

Some are texts released under the Creative Commons. In some cases, the uploads are of audio recordings of book release functions or interviews. Some texts are copyright-expired. And in a few cases, the authors (Mervyn Maciel, with his own Bwana Karani and a cookbook released after Elsie's death; and Dr Stella Mascarenhas) have put out their work in a way that it can be shared by all. Willy Goes created Konkani's first audio-book especially for a platform like this. Again, most do not have an overt academic or research slant; the point I'm trying to make is it's not hard to share if one wants to.

Goa Gazettes have also been uploaded there in recent times (but now sure how many, or how consistently). These have been uploaded by the related department.

Am guessing that it was projects like the Million Book Project that brought online works like Índia Portugueza; a propósito dos acontecimentos de Satary (Portuguese India: On the events of Satari)!

Prof Prakash Parienkar has shared some of his works here:
https://archive.org/details/varsal0000prak (Varsal)

https://archive.org/details/davarne0000prak (Dovornem)
https://archive.org/details/versetale0000prak (Kolyachi Naddeponna)

His uploads also share access to Mhadei-Kallzantlyan Kagdar (an eco-anthropological study of Mhadei river basin, in Devanagari Konkani)  https://archive.org/details/Mhadei-kallzantlyanKagdar..anEcoanthropologicalStudyOfMhadeiRiverBasin 

(If there's a problem with the link -- some are a kilometre long! -- go to archive.org and search for the subject.)

FN

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[frederic...@gmail.com]

This would appear right.

Only Catholic records are there.

Any other inputs, please?

FN

[Peter de Souza]

Well done Rico

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