Creado de meza

[Carvalho]

Dear members,

I would like to know what would be the best interpretation of this term "creado de meza". This is a 19th century term used in a letter dated 1889, and does it correspond to the English 19th century equivalent of "head servant" or better still "table servant."

All best wishes,

Selma

[sandra lobo]

It is a table servant. Until a few decades ago the term was normally used specially to designate waiters.

Sandra Ataíde Lobo  

         

Home (gieipc-ip.org)                              https://praticasdahistoria.pt/

tmn. ++351 930690459

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De: 'Carvalho' via Goa-Research-Net <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com>
Enviado: 20 de novembro de 2024 16:14
Para: Goa-Research-Net <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com>
Assunto: [GRN] Creado de meza

 

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[carolina costa]

Hi Selma,

The expression creado de meza, in Portugal means empregado(a) de mesa, which is the current term. The equivalent in English is waiter/waitress.

“Head Servant “ means in Portugal, Chefe  de sala who is also responsible for the waiters.

Hope this helps.

Best regards 

Carolina 

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On 28 Nov 2024, at 08:41, sandra lobo <sandr...@netcabo.pt> wrote:



It is a table servant. Until a few decades ago the term was normally used specially to designate waiters.

Sandra Ataíde Lobo  

         

Home (gieipc-ip.org)                              https://praticasdahistoria.pt/

tmn. ++351 930690459

---

De: 'Carvalho' via Goa-Research-Net <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com>
Enviado: 20 de novembro de 2024 16:14
Para: Goa-Research-Net <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com>
Assunto: [GRN] Creado de meza

 

Dear members,

I would like to know what would be the best interpretation of this term "creado de meza". This is a 19th century term used in a letter dated 1889, and does it correspond to the English 19th century equivalent of "head servant" or better still "table servant."

All best wishes,

Selma

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[Mervyn Maciel]

Literally - “Servant of the table!”

Sounds odd though!

Mervyn Maciel 

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On 28 Nov 2024, at 05:43, 'Carvalho' via Goa-Research-Net <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



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[Carvalho]

Thank you dear all. Mervyn good to see you here.

This is a difficult term to interpret, can be steward onboard a ship or a head servant or in today's terminology a waiter.

Thanks,

selma

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.

[William Robert Da Silva]

There is the word malcreado which means ill-doer, crooked person; creado, cread is a doer. I have heard these words used in Konkani, too. Then you have a meza which is at table. So, it would be positively doing at table, service at table. An attender at table etc., I suppose. Meza can also mean table-land or ghats. Would it be, therefore, a servant in the forestry service? I am joking.

W R Da Silva

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[Cliff Pereira]

Dear Bwana Maciel,

My understanding is that in standard (Lisbon) Portuguese today there is no common usage of the term. 

Consider the following:

Head waiter - Chefe de mesa

Waiter - Empregado de mesa

Waiter's assistant - Ajudante de empregado de mesa

Table servant - Empregado de mesa

Waiter - Garçom

Garçom is the most common term today and is a borrowing from French "Garcon".

However, in the past a polite term for a waiter was "creado de meza" or simply "Creado". I believe it was derived from a Spanish term "creador de la mesa" meaning literally the person who "created [the setting for] the table". By the way the term only applies to a male waiter.

Regards

Cliff

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From: goa-rese...@googlegroups.com <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Mervyn Maciel <mervynels.w...@gmail.com>
Sent: 28 November 2024 1:45 PM
To: goa-rese...@googlegroups.com <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [GRN] Creado de meza

 

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[MD]

creado =creator (who created) so creado de mesa should be the person who sets up dinner table.
  creado de meza = table servant
creado de mesa = table creation (creator?) A person who sets up dinner table

table
The name Meza finds its origins in the Spanish language, specifically derived from the word mesa, meaning plateau or table.

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[Mervyn Maciel]

Thanks, but to me, Creadp de meza sounds very demeaning’

I like the word ‘Empregado’

though to me, it sounds highly “inflated “!!

I myself started out as an‘’empregado’ although tge English equivalent sounds very ‘menial’ ss ‘clerk’ which my Granny would pronounce as ‘kolark’

a seemingly ‘exalted’ position at the time’

Mervyn Maciel 

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On 29 Nov 2024, at 20:53, MD <mmdm...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[John de Figueiredo]

“Mesa” (with “s”, not “z”) comes from the Latin “mensa” which means “table”. “Criado” means “created”, also derived from the Latin “creare” which means “to create” or “to bring up” meaning that the “criados” had their fate sealed: they were brought up to serve. In the Goan social hierarchy, the “criados” were a more benign reincarnation of slaves.

“Criado” was replaced by the more polite “empregado” (employed) recently. In Goa, and I believe also in Portugal, in the old days, the expression “seu criado” (your servant) was used in the sense of “respectfully”, just as in English the expression “your obedient servant” was used in the same sense. Most Portuguese words are derived from Latin and not from Spanish.

John

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On Nov 29, 2024, at 3:53 PM, MD <mmdm...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[cristiana bastos]

HI Sonia -- in 20th century Portuguese, and likely for the late 19th century, "criado de mesa" (spelling flexible, creado/criado, mesa/meza) applies to those who work in restaurants and cafés, as opposed to domestic servants (Criados), or as opposed to  those in the hotel business who are in charge of making beds (criados de quarto), laundry, cooking, etc. 

By the late 20th century it was replaced with "empregado de mesa". 

I hope this helps. 

best

cristiana 

Cristiana Bastos

Institute of Social Sciences | University of Lisbon | Av Anibal Bettencourt, 9 | 1600-189 Lisboa, Portugal 

https://cristianabastos.org/

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