Villages names

[John de Figueiredo]

I would be grateful if someone would clarify for me the relationship of Morambi (Morambim) o Grande and Morambi (Morambim) o Pequeno to Mercês. Are they the same village?
Thank you
John M. de Figueiredo

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[alan machado]

John

They belonged to two different parishes

Morambi (Morambim) o Grande                       Sta. Bárbara   

Morambi (Morambim) o Pequeno                     N.ª Sr.ª das Mercês

Alan

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[Frederick Noronha]

Both are what is today known as Merces:
...Merces, comprises of four old villages: Murda, Morombim-o-Pequeno, Renovadi and Morombim-o-Grande...
https://www.navhindtimes.in/2021/03/21/magazines/panorama/kujira-from-a-trading-port-to-a-rice-granary/#google_vignette

FN

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[Andrew Pereira]

Dear John,

As far as I know, Morombi O Grande and Morombi O Pequeno are the comunidade villages in Merces.

Regards,

Andrew

[Leroy Veloso]

The two morambis are two.seperate communidades, I don't know which area of Merces they include or exclude

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[John de Figueiredo]

Thank you, Alan and Frederick, for this information.

John

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On Nov 18, 2023, at 5:24 AM, Frederick Noronha <frederic...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[John de Figueiredo]

Thank you, Leroy. Alan and Frederick have clarified the village names.

John

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On Nov 18, 2023, at 5:03 AM, Leroy Veloso <leroy...@yahoo.com> wrote:

The two morambis are two.seperate communidades, I don't know which area of Merces they include or exclude

[Tensing Rodrigues]

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Tensing Rodrigues <ten...@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2023 at 12:56
Subject: Re: [GRN] Villages names
To: <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com>

No they are not the same, but neighbouring villages.

Map attached.

[John de Figueiredo]

Does anyone know the Konkani (pre-Portuguese) name of Mercês? Or was this name created by the Portuguese?

John M. de Figueiredo 

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On Nov 18, 2023, at 6:49 AM, Andrew Pereira <andrewp...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[John de Figueiredo]

Thank you, Tensing, for this clarification.

John

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On Nov 18, 2023, at 6:51 AM, Tensing Rodrigues <ten...@gmail.com> wrote:



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<Morombim.png>

[John de Figueiredo]

Thank you, Andrew.

John

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On Nov 18, 2023, at 6:49 AM, Andrew Pereira <andrewp...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Themistocles D'Silva]

Grande and Pequeno may reflect the demographics of the village, just like Aquem Alto and Aquem Baixo in Salcete.

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[Tensing Rodrigues]

No they are not the same, but neighbouring villages.

Map attached.

[John de Figueiredo]

So Mercês was the name of the parish, created by the Portuguese, with no Konkani equivalent. This is how I understand it.

Thank you for your help.

John

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On Nov 18, 2023, at 5:11 AM, alan machado <alan.m...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[fredericknoronha]

Morambi (Morambim) could be the original name.
Am guessing... FN

[Joao Paulo Cota]

I am not too familiar with Aquem village, but would had thought that Alto and Baixo relates to landscape topography and not to demographics. Aquem alto is quite a hilly area... much higher above sea level than Aquem baixo.

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From: goa-rese...@googlegroups.com <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Themistocles D'Silva <themis...@gmail.com>
Sent: 18 November 2023 16:55
To: goa-rese...@googlegroups.com <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: [GRN] Villages names

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[John Nazareth]

Could be that they started out as a single village with 2 communidades (like Aldona) which later morphed into 2 villages?

John

 

From: goa-rese...@googlegroups.com <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of fredericknoronha
Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2023 12:57 PM
To: Goa-Research-Net <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [GRN] Villages names

 

Morambi (Morambim) could be the original name.
Am guessing... FN

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[Frederick Noronha]

Sociologist Dr Savio Abreu SJ has focussed some of his work on Merces (which otherwise, doesn't seem an area "fashionable" for too many academic studies). See:

Abreu, Savio. Heaven’s Gates and Hell’s Flames: A Sociological Study of New Christian Movements in Contemporary Goa. Oxford University Press, 2019.

FN

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[Frederick Noronha]

I could be wrong, but I don't think village boundaries necessarily overlap with comunidade/gaunkaria or panchayat boundaries.

Take the case of Serula Comunidade, which has "three-and-a-half villages" coming under it.

As gaunkars proudly narrate: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIe6-LqdiB4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtjUPOGKZXo

FN 

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[Afonso Manuel Botelho]

Cujira is a part of Santa Cruz village but Cujira and Santa Cruz or Calaour are two separate comunidades




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[Agnelo Fernandes]

 They all three had/ have separate Comunidades but are under the parish of Merced

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.

[John de Figueiredo]

Thank you, John, Frederick, and Afonso for your helpful comments.

John N. de Figueiredo 

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On Nov 19, 2023, at 8:02 AM, 'Afonso Manuel Botelho' via Goa-Research-Net <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Cujira is a part of Santa Cruz village but Cujira and Santa Cruz or Calaour are two separate comunidades

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[John Nazareth]

Further to what I had written a couple of days ago, I checked on the old book Rui Gomes Pereira’s “Goa” Volume 1 Hindu Temples and Deities which lists all the villages in Salcette, Bardez and Ilhas (Old Conquests”.

It lists villages Mercurim, Moronbim and Mandum with 2 vangors, 5 vangors, and 4 vangors respectively.

So at one time there was a single village named Moronbim.

One thing I notice in Ilhas, and villages closeby is that the names of parishes and villages names got confounded.

E.g Malar – Sao Matias, Britona – Penha de Franca etc.

So if a village got big enough for 2 major parishes that might result the villages splitting (per Alan Machado).

Now Frederick tells us that several old villages merged into Merces (=Mercurim?).

Interesting stuff.

John Naz

 

From: goa-rese...@googlegroups.com <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Frederick Noronha
Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2023 5:24 AM
To: goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
Cc: John de Figueiredo <john...@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [GRN] Villages names

 

Both are what is today known as Merces:

FN

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[alan machado]

The 1720 population census gives detailed information of villages, parishes, and ofcourse population statistics. Check Paulo Lopes Matos O Numeromento de Goa de 1720

Filipe Nery gives communidades details in his two volumes O Bosquejo... available from Archive

Alan ,   

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[Agnelo Fernandes]

Vilage of Merces has following revenue villeges:

Morombi o Pequeno

Morombi o Grande

Renowadii &

Murda.

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On Sat, Nov 18, 2023 at 3:41 PM, alan machado

<alan.m...@gmail.com> wrote:

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.

[Agnelo Fernandes]

I belong to the Revenue village of Morombi o Pequeno of the vilage of Merces.

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[Agnelo Fernandes]

There are other detailed documents of 17th cent. on diferent villages of then Goa territory in Historical Archives of Goa 

Dr. Agnelo Paulo Fernandes  

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On Mon, Nov 20, 2023 at 11:07 AM, Agnelo Fernandes

<dr_agnelo...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[Frederick Noronha]

QUOTE

The Panaji copper plate reveals the grant of two villages -- Laghumuruambika (modern Merces, later made of two revenue components) for the construction of a masjid (mosque) and Sri Chaimulya (today, Chimbel) to Chhaddam or Saddam. The name Laghumurumbika (Merces) is interpreted etymologically in the following manner: 'Laghu' implying small; 'muru' signifying three (in Kannada); and 'ambika' being the goddess.

To date, the village has three major divisions, Murumbin-o-grande, Murumbin-o-pequen (laghu) and Murda. The Kannada word muru features in the Portuguese version as murumbin. The word 'Merces' signifying an aard of a grant in Portuguese records may allude to the munificient gift of land of Merces village for the construction of a mosque along with that of Chimbel village to his Arab prime minister."
UNQUOTE

SOURCE: Pais, Sharmila and Sakhardande, Prajal. The Quest For Goa: History and Heritage of Goa from Ancient Times to 2019. Goa,1556 2023. p.33.

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[William Robert Da Silva]

My field work in Goa in Merces had shown that Mohombi was the original
word as attested by the inhabitants. Grande and Pequeno was a
Portuguese administrative order. That is what the people told me in
1991.
W R Da Silva

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