Design of Traditional Goan Saraswat Bunds (Leonardo Souza and Purnanand Savoikar)

[Frederick Noronha]

Design of Traditional Goan Saraswat Bunds

Leonardo Souza 1 and Purnanand Savoikar 2 1Research Scholar, Department of Civil Engineering, Goa Engineering College, Farmagudi Goa – 403 401 2 Professor , Department of Civil Engineering, Goa Engineering College, Farmagudi Goa – 403 401 lr...@rediffmail.com psav...@gmail.com 

Abstract. Traditional Goan Sarawsat Bunds (TGSB) are ancient embankments used for different purposes. They are extremely cost effective since they are built from materials available in the nearby locations. Their main feature is their bermed structure topped by double row of coconut trees on each side. Engineering design of an embankment from the view point of safety and economy of construction cost is a crucial but unavailable for traditional structures. Parametric studies need to be performed to assess the stability of a slope to the variation height of embankment. This paper presents the design methodology for building TGSB for various heights and the variation of factor of safety considering the effects of coconut tree root zone in the embankment for Goa region. 

Keywords: Traditional Embankment Design; TGSB, Bunds

http://www.igs.org.in:8080/portal/igc-proceedings/igc-2019-surat-proceedings/TH6/TH6-12.pdf

--

FN* फ्रेड्रिक नोरोन्या * فريدريك نورونيا‎ +91-9822122436  

[V M]

Bunds have caste? 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to goa-research-n...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAMCR53LRba11%2B08k0uKXCt4_KWTUp307J8jRVVHn6s-t2Rcu7Q%40mail.gmail.com.

--

#2, Second Floor, Navelkar Trade Centre, Panjim, Goa
Cellphone 9326140754

[Helga do Rosario Gomes]

Ha Ha! I think in this case it's more cultural than caste - more like 'Saraswat cuisine'.

Although a quick glance at the paper tells me that this will not be an easy read for me, I remember my cousin Victor Hugo Gomes, tell me that these bundhs are very difficult to build and the expertise to do so lies with only a few highly skilled craftsmen. So I am glad that the research scholar Leonardo Souza has documented at least the theoretical aspects.

-Helga

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAN1wPW4uRi3D7PuPF3_XG8Mfx5XcV8i5o1S3DNDNu1qaTGmOEQ%40mail.gmail.com.

--

Maria Helga do Rosario Gomes
610 West 115th Street
NY 10025
USA
http://helgagomes.com/
http://www.goachitra.com/

[George Pinto]

Huh? Isn't the embankment reference a river embankment, and Saraswat the river mentioned in the Vedas (Rig Veda if I remember correctly).  Isn't that the connection, not caste? But I do appreciate VM's humor.

[Frederick Noronha]

But I think they're talking about the technology ... and not the hard work put in here here. 

(No doubt, labour inputs played a critical part too. If I recollect rightly, a Goa government statement presented in the poorly-utilised and seldom-in-session Goa Assembly said there were 2000 kms of protective bunding walls lining diverse parts of coastal Goa. That would have involved more than the work put in to build the pyramids, I recall reading somewhere, but can't recollect where.... This is entirely another aspect.)

For that matter, the "upper" caste-controlled Comunidade agricultural operations seem to have worked quite well, though I don't think any study has been done of that from an engineering or technical viewpoint.

A villager (farming background) from one such area told me how amazed he was by the straightness and allocation of paddy fields there, to the point of it being "perfect" in planning. But, again, this is episodic evidence, as could be the Shashi Hodarkar Almeida recollections.

The collapse of agriculture in Goa is a more recent, post-1960s phenomenon, got more to do with economics and politics (politicised tenancy laws, with no concern for productivity; ration supplies flooding the market and depressing local demand; a bloated bureaucracy removing labour away from the rural sector; the influx of fertilizer-dependent Jayas and IR8s of the so-called "Green Revolution" to subsume the diversity of traditional Goa seed evolved over centuries as documented by Norman Dantas and Claude Alvares in the 1980s; among other factors).

Just sharing some responses, FN

On Sat, 16 Jan 2021 at 22:46, Amita Kanekar <amitak...@gmail.com> wrote:

It definitely makes sense that communities with traditional occupations, or a specific work-based lifestyle, would be experts and inventive at their work. But that's exactly why associating the Saraswat community with something that needs both construction expertise as well as physical work doesn't make much sense.

In fact, I remember Shashi Hodarkar Almeida (a Saraswat) describing very frankly how, after she and other Gandhians were released from Goan jails in the 1950s, they organised a 'shramdaan' programme of building a road at Canacona. 'Of course, we didn't do much road-building -- we brahmins are useless at hard labour!' she said, 'The local villagers did almost all the work, while we mostly chatted.'

On Sat, Jan 16, 2021 at 4:21 PM Frederick Noronha <frederic...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Amita, 

Cyril's book is agnostic about this claim. He writes: 

"Although it is not known who designed the earliest khazan and when ..."

I'm not too worried about the label. It is quite possible that different ethnic (read: caste) groups brought in diverse knowledge systems and technologies into what became Goa. I agree it's a bit surprising to have a certain development linked to a certain caste group. But it might have been that. If I say the Daivadnyas are masters of gold and silver work, or that the Charis are great technologists (metal, but could spill over to slough making and a lot more), or that the Christian Mhars (though caste should be a contradiction in religious terms here) are great cooks, that, in a way, is a reflection of the reality.

What I found interesting was the attempt to study the technology behind the bunds and give credit to the understanding of the past. My non-technical background makes it difficult for me to evaluate the arguments, but am sure you could judge that aspect better. Awaiting your comments on the same, please.

FN

On Sat, 16 Jan 2021 at 08:44, Amita Kanekar <amitak...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks, Rico. Cyril is not calling it a Gavda bund, though.

But do you mean to say that this book actually argues that it was the Saraswats who invented, constructed and maintained the bunds? 

On Sat 16 Jan, 2021, 4:01 AM Frederick Noronha, <frederic...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Amita, There have been other claims made over the contributions to this Goan technological marvel. For instance: 

QUOTE The Gavddas are generally sturdy and hard-working. They are typically agriculturists.

1

Govyatil Adivasi, a book authored by Devidas Janu Gaonkar in Marathi, carries a wealth of information on Goan tribals, their various occupations, day-to-day lifestyle and other details.

Their knowledge of agriculture can be gauged from the indigenous varieties of rice that they grow and consume. Their biggest contribution to the Goan panorama has been the construction of the engineering marvel called khazan. Although it is not known who designed the earliest khazan and when, the Gavdda community has continued constructing and maintaining khazans for as long as Goan history has been recorded. UNQUOTE

SOURCE: 
Justice at the Grassroots: A Tribute to Antonio Francisco Fernandes,
Leader of Goa's Tribal Communities
Cyril Aleixo Fernandes

Goa,1556 : 2014

On Fri, 15 Jan 2021 at 22:16, Amita Kanekar <amitak...@gmail.com> wrote:

I know what a bund is, which the write-up also explains. But what is a
Saraswat bund?

On Thu 14 Jan, 2021, 11:21 PM Frederick Noronha, <

frederic...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Design of Traditional Goan Saraswat Bunds
>
> Leonardo Souza 1 and Purnanand Savoikar 2 1Research Scholar, Department of
> Civil Engineering, Goa Engineering College, Farmagudi Goa – 403 401 2
> Professor , Department of Civil Engineering, Goa Engineering College,
> Farmagudi Goa – 403 401 lr...@rediffmail.com psav...@gmail.com
>

> Abstract. Traditional Goan Saraswat Bunds (TGSB) are ancient embankments
> used for different purposes. They are extremely cost-effective since they
> are built from materials available in nearby locations. Their main feature
> is their bermed structure topped by a double row of coconut trees on each
> side. Engineering design of an embankment from the viewpoint of safety and

> economy of construction cost is a crucial but unavailable for traditional
> structures. Parametric studies need to be performed to assess the stability
> of a slope to the variation height of embankment. This paper presents the
> design methodology for building TGSB for various heights and the variation
> of factor of safety considering the effects of coconut tree root zone in
> the embankment for Goa region.
>
> Keywords: Traditional Embankment Design; TGSB, Bunds
>
> http://www.igs.org.in:8080/portal/igc-proceedings/igc-2019-surat-proceedings/TH6/TH6-12.pdf
> --
> FN* फ्रेड्रिक नोरोन्या * فريدريك نورونيا‎ +91-9822122436 

--

FN* फ्रेड्रिक नोरोन्या * فريدريك نورونيا‎ +91-9822122436 

AUDIO: https://archive.org/details/goa1556

TEXT: http://bit.ly/2SBx41G PIX: http://bit.ly/2Rs1xhl

Can't get through on mobile? Please SMS/WhatsApp

--

The past is never dead. It is not even past."
                            -- William Faulkner, Requiem for a Nun (1950)

Tel: +91 832 2462478 | +91 08007206134 | Panjim, Goa

--

FN* फ्रेड्रिक नोरोन्या * فريدريك نورونيا‎ +91-9822122436 

AUDIO: https://archive.org/details/goa1556

TEXT: http://bit.ly/2SBx41G PIX: http://bit.ly/2Rs1xhl

Can't get through on mobile? Please SMS/WhatsApp

[Frederick Noronha]

Hi Amita, Don't agree that we should preclude discussion on this topic because it raises caste, and we are sometimes uncomfortable to discuss caste... especially the contexts of the "upper" castes.

In the long-run, it would be interesting to see whether (i) whether the technological understanding of the bunds and khazans help our comprehension of the same (ii) whether the origins have been adequately understood.

"Dominant, slave-holding and non-labouring landlord castes" is a social and political issue, but wholly irrelevant to the technology and its possible origins. A lot of technology could be dismissed on the basis of its origins, how it came about, whether it was sired by the military or during world wards, etc. But, is that the point here?

It might be more honest to acknowledge the roots of these technologies, provided one is accurate about the same, and is willing to discuss issues which which are inconvenient as well. For that matter, bhats have been connected with arecanut, shets with gold, charis with other metals and technology, tribals with medicinal plants (as reflected in Bernie's work on the ethno-medical practices of the Kunbis of Baraddi), and the like. There have been certain geographical areas which have held a predominance over certain professions and trades -- masonry, music, etc. Should we, or should we not, acknowledge these realities, without getting caught up in arguments of claimed superiority or perceived inferiority?

FN

On Sun, 17 Jan 2021 at 08:38, Amita Kanekar <amitak...@gmail.com> wrote:

Okay, okay... If you think it's fine to use a completely unjustifiable and casteist title to give dominant, slaveholding and non-labouring landlord castes the credit for a traditional agricultural technology involving immense physical labour, let's leave it at that.

Best,

Amita

[Luis Dias]

I think Amita is calling into question the title of the bund. Is it accurate to call it Saraswat if so many aspects of it, not least the hard labour, involved other communities? 

That's the difference from the other examples you quote, e.g tribals and medicinal plants, etc. 

'Acknowledging realities' is a slippery slope because it 'normalises' the injustice of 'reality'. Should manual scavenging be seen as the occupation of certain communities just because that is the 'reality', a sort of fait accompli, even though it's not being done out of choice? I think not. Anyone with a questioning conscience wouldn't.

Best,

Luis 

   

_____________________________
Dr. Luis Francisco Dias
Casa da Moeda
Near Head Post Office
Panaji, Goa - 403001
INDIA

Tel: (+91) 9011051950
http://luisdias.wordpress.com
http://www.childsplayindia.org

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to goa-research-n...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAMCR53Kjj6Yju5eOqFixiR7idVnuX%3D-k%2BjxHA1VpUGtAMfzgkQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Jason Keith Fernandes]

Add to this the fact that the title Saraswat is adopted only in the late 19th and early 20th century. Before this, the various groups today known as Saraswat had other identities.

See: https://journals.openedition.org/rccs/7048

Jason Keith Fernandes Ph.D.

Researcher,

Centre for Research in Anthropology (CRIA),

ISCTE-IUL, Lisbon.

-----------------------------------------------------
Read my thoughts:
Reflections in the popular press at www.dervishnotes.blogspot.com
Scholarly articles at https://iscte-iul.academia.edu/JasonFernandes
----------------------------------------------------
"Non Clamor Sed Amor"

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/1522373917.2863709.1610951196700%40mail.yahoo.com.

[Frederick Noronha]

You have a point, Dr Luis. But I would not let a debate over the naming (and even the wider issue of appropriating credit) get in the way of understanding the technology involved. Also, I understand that the paper is written by researchers with a technology background, rather than with roots in sociology or political science. FN

[Frederick Noronha]

And so? 

The term "Hindu" (at least in the context it is used today) was used for barely a few centuries. This does not mean that the group (even if not defined in the same way) did not exist at that time. 

FN

[Shirley Gonsalves]

The evidence suggests - that there were more than   just one group in existence ?

Groups? with changing names and thus definitions? 

We see this happening in many places. 

Interesting articles nevertheless, thanks for sharing. 

Best

Shirley 

---

From: goa-rese...@googlegroups.com <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Frederick Noronha <frederic...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2021 11:18 AM
To: Jason Keith Fernandes <jason.k....@gmail.com>
Cc: Luis Dias <dias...@yahoo.com>; Amita Kanekar <amitak...@gmail.com>; lr...@rediffmail.com <lr...@rediffmail.com>; psav...@gmail.com <psav...@gmail.com>; goa-rese...@googlegroups.com <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com>; Goanet <goa...@goanet.org>
Subject: Re: [GRN] Re: [Goanet] [Goanet-News] Design of Traditional Goan Saraswat Bunds (Leonardo Souza and Purnanand Savoikar)

 

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAMCR53KHtkw6egvbzDOVnsE48RAUUf8SY3Pgg-hgmemoY34MtA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Luis Dias]

Having a technology background should really not be an excuse for inaccuracy and insensitivity. 

I don't have a degree in political science either. But that is hardly the point.

Calling it a Saraswat bund it wrong, pure and simple.

Best,

Luis    

_____________________________
Dr. Luis Francisco Dias
Casa da Moeda
Near Head Post Office
Panaji, Goa - 403001
INDIA

Tel: (+91) 9011051950
http://luisdias.wordpress.com
http://www.childsplayindia.org

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/LNXP265MB2553CBC09E8F260E52575ABFADA40%40LNXP265MB2553.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM.