Portuguese for non Portuguese researchers

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Helga do Rosario Gomes

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Dec 4, 2023, 6:57:00 PM12/4/23
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It’s quite unfortunate that many researchers are stymied because of their inability to read Portuguese. Unfortunate not only for the frustration it causes the researchers but also the loss of information to the general public especially in this current polarized India. 
Universities like Columbia where I work demand that a PhD student take courses that extend the breadth and depth of his/her knowledge. 
But this isn’t the case in most universities worldwide nor is it applicable to independent researchers not affiliated to universities or institutions.
But there’s a possible solution to this problem although it would need collaboration and the breaking of silos both of which from my experience are very hard to accomplish at the Goa university. 
Why don’t researchers with great ideas and enthusiasm as well as  access to documents collaborate with the faculty and more importantly with students of the Portuguese Department of Goa Univ? The latter would reap in terms of multidisciplinary collaborations, co-authorship in papers and books and exposure to a big world! This isn’t unusual in the world of science and technology. Data science students are made to work in libraries, linguistics, philosophy departments and medical and earth sciences. Data crunching, like speaking a language, is a skill.
Currently very little research is being undertaken at Goa Univ.’s  Portuguese department probably because the effort is mostly to produce more Portuguese teachers but a collaboration such as I suggest would produce historians, researchers, thinkers etc. 
I hope at least one student or faculty from the Portuguese department lurking in the periphery of this group responds. 
It’s time Goa moved beyond Vem Cantar and Festas do Povo.
Best,
Helga 
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sandra lobo

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Dec 5, 2023, 1:15:10 AM12/5/23
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Hi Helga. For years I have been defending that unless, at least for academic purposes, Portuguese is considered as a Goan language, necessary to be learned by students/researchers of Social Sciences and Humanities, Goan capacity to research its own past, namely its intellectual history and literature, will remain limited and its heritage will be no longer. From what I have been informed there is now an effort to have a more collaborative attitude between departments to overcome limitations, let's hope it is consistent. Best wishes, Sandra




Sandra Ataíde Lobo  


         

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De: goa-rese...@googlegroups.com <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com> em nome de Helga do Rosario Gomes <helgado...@gmail.com>
Enviado: 4 de dezembro de 2023 23:33
Para: Goa-Research-Net <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com>
Assunto: [GRN] Portuguese for non Portuguese researchers
 
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Tensing Rodrigues

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Dec 5, 2023, 4:15:24 AM12/5/23
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Goa's history does not begin with the Portuguese ! There is a lot in Goa history to be researched beyond the Portuguese interregnum. Mal olhamos para o resto.
Tensing

Carvalho

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Dec 5, 2023, 4:16:03 AM12/5/23
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I second Sandra here. It is absolutely impossible to do research on Goa if one does not have at least a rudimentary knowledge of this language. Even seasoned translators will get translations wrong and unless you can check translations for accuracy with the benefit of context, it does not work. Having said that, it is not impossible to acquire a rudimentary understanding of this language within a fairly short time, and I suspect within two to three years of continued effort, one can become adept at this language which was most Catholic Goans is vaguely familiar and hidden in cryptomnesia. 

Best,
Selma


fredericknoronha

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Dec 5, 2023, 4:20:51 AM12/5/23
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Yes, but a lot of the written record is in that language. Which kind of places it on a different footing. FN

sandra lobo

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Dec 5, 2023, 4:25:10 AM12/5/23
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No, but this little Portuguese interregnum lasted for almost five centuries, during which many Goans wrote and published in Portuguese language.




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De: goa-rese...@googlegroups.com <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com> em nome de Tensing Rodrigues <ten...@gmail.com>
Enviado: 5 de dezembro de 2023 08:00
Para: goa-rese...@googlegroups.com <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com>
Assunto: Re: [GRN] Portuguese for non Portuguese researchers
 

John de Figueiredo

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Dec 5, 2023, 5:30:41 AM12/5/23
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Correct. But even to study and understand the pre-Portuguese history of Goa, you have to have a thorough knowledge of the Portuguese language.
Pissurlencar would have agreed with me.
John
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On Dec 5, 2023, at 4:15 AM, Tensing Rodrigues <ten...@gmail.com> wrote:


Goa's history does not begin with the Portuguese ! There is a lot in Goa history to be researched beyond the Portuguese interregnum. Mal olhamos para o resto.
Tensing

On Tue, 5 Dec 2023 at 11:45, sandra lobo <sandr...@netcabo.pt> wrote:
Hi Helga. For years I have been defending that unless, at least for academic purposes, Portuguese is considered as a Goan language, necessary to be learned by students/researchers of Social Sciences and Humanities, Goan capacity to research its own past, namely its intellectual history and literature, will remain limited and its heritage will be no longer. From what I have been informed there is now an effort to have a more collaborative attitude between departments to overcome limitations, let's hope it is consistent. Best wishes, Sandra




Sandra Ataíde Lobo  

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Nuno Cardoso da Silva

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Dec 5, 2023, 5:30:58 AM12/5/23
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Sorry to interfere, but a 450 year "interregnum" must have left something worth studying, probably using the occupiers language...
 
Nuno Cardoso da Silva
 
 
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2023 at 8:00 AM
From: "Tensing Rodrigues" <ten...@gmail.com>
To: goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [GRN] Portuguese for non Portuguese researchers

Pedro Mascarenhas

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Dec 7, 2023, 10:45:17 AM12/7/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com, Frederick Noronha
In Portuguese secondary schools in Mozambique in the 60s and 70s it was mandatory to study French for 5 years and English for 3 years. Goan students gave more importance to English than French, because of Elvis Presley, the Beatles, and Hollywood films. It was wasted time: French from 1st to 5th year; English from 3rd to 5th year). Nowadays, if someone learns Portuguese in Goa, in theory, and not practicing it daily, it is useless.

John de Figueiredo

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Dec 7, 2023, 2:21:28 PM12/7/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com, Frederick Noronha
Pedro,
I respectfully disagree. I speak Portuguese, Spanish,  French, and Konkani fluently and do not use these languages daily, but I find knowing these languages very helpful at everything I do.
John
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On Dec 7, 2023, at 10:45 AM, 'Pedro Mascarenhas' via Goa-Research-Net <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



Pedro Mascarenhas

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Dec 8, 2023, 12:06:17 PM12/8/23
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John

I completely agree with you when you say “knowing these languages very helpful at everything”. It is very useful to speak several languages to understand “the other”, to break down barriers.

The difficulty arises when, a student in Goa, after studying a language (let's say Russian) and lives in Panaji or Mapuça and does not have at least one friend or neighbor (or neighbour) who speaks that language, how can he keep the flame alive?

See this example. Years ago, a cousin of mine attended an intensive Portuguese course taught by Instituto Camões in Panaji. When I went to Goa, I discovered that he only knew two phrases: BU DIA and UBRIGAD. (BOM DIA e OBRIGADO…Good morning and thank you). And he has a diploma from the Institute hanging on the wall that states “Frequentou o curso de português…he attended the Portuguese course” The parents, siblings and neighbors speak English, Konkani and Hindi and zero Portuguese.

I speak Konkani without ever having studied the language because my parents spoke it in Mozambique.   I'm an exception among my friends who only speak Portuguese.

Escolac guellear puro? Ulloupak ani konnuim aslear boreak poddta, maka oxem dista.






Joao Paulo Cota

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Dec 8, 2023, 1:51:58 PM12/8/23
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John,
When I had landed up in Goa in the 1980's I knew only Portuguese (my mother tongue) and intermediate French.
I was honoured to had been taught English via Portuguese by Tensing's dad, the late Prof Lourdino Rodrigues. He did warn both my brother and myself that we would forget Portuguese in a matter of a year or so!
Well, roll on many years, in fact about 4 decades later to be precise, we were still OK with our Portuguese - as we spoke with each other and with elder family members - and also picked up Konkani to be able to speak with village neighbours... But the French unfortunately slowly died off (apart from a very hilarious incident at a Panjim bus stop once), my French completely vanished, as I had nobody to speak with.
After having graduated from the Engineering College in Farmagudi, and having worked on construction sites, I had discovered that the steel guys speak Malayalam, the concrete guys speak Kannada, the wood shuttering guys speak Hindi and local electrical guys speak Konkani. So had to learn a bit of all of these to get the work done!
Today, I have realized that it is impossible to 'forget' the mother tongue, as long as it is spoken at different levels (conversational, educational, research, etc) and any other language learnt but not spoken/read/written regularly is often forgotten unless practised - but it can be revived anytime, as the 'code' is stored as electrical signals somewhere in a remote part of the brain... 
Hence, I am trying to revive my French now by declaring 2023 as French only Fridays  (with my younger son,  so that we both improve on our conversational skills), and Portuguese only Thursdays (with him too,  so that he learns the language). We have both sticking to this timetable and it is working well.
Oh yes, also going through old script Mandarin to be able to decipher the writing on the old Chinese stamps which I collect. Lucky to have a couple of elder Chinese ladies at my allotment to help me with the tones, something quite tricky to get it right.
Regards,
Joao Paulo Cota

From: 'Pedro Mascarenhas' via Goa-Research-Net <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: 08 December 2023 14:37
To: goa-rese...@googlegroups.com <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [GRN] Portuguese for non Portuguese researchers
 
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