Pamphlets

245 views
Skip to first unread message

Eugene Correia

unread,
Dec 4, 2023, 6:13:44 AM12/4/23
to Goa-Research-Net

Going through some of my collections I found some pamphlets, mostly in Portuguese. I don’t read or understand Portuguese. These are mostly from Portuguese government departments or agencies.

Here they are:


1. Goa na Historia da Civilizacao, Dr. Socrates da Costa, August 14, 1947. The doctor was an MP, I suppose.

2. Principios duma reforma agraria (Communidades de Goa). Discurso proferido por Sua Ex O Governador Geral, 22 Setembrro de 1946..

3.Principes et Institutions de E’Etat Nouveau Portugais (Le Portugal D’Aujord’Hui)

4. A HEROINAS DE DIU (GRANDES PORTUGUESAS)

5. With Friendliness (On the Plane of Principles) (Coleccao  de Divulgacao e Cultura)

6. O Melhor Caminho (The Best Way) by Cultura (with English translation)

7. Independencia de Portugal  — 1150, 1640, 1940 (Edicoes da Comissao Nacional)

8. 20 Years of Mighty Achievements (28th May 1926 — 28th May 1945)  In English.

9. The Rights of Portuugese India (A lecture delivered at the Sociedade de Geografia in Lisbon, on March 14, 1950) Alberto Xavier. In English.

10. Here It Is Portugal Coleccao Divulgacaoe Culura. Speeches by Joao de Lucena, Portuguese Consul at Bombay. At a meeting held on 31st October 1949. One on Assertions of Loyralty of the Goan Community of Madras: by FX Fernandes, resident of Madras; We Goans, speeech broadcast on the night of Sept 20th, 1949 by Dr. Socrates da Costa, President of the “Uniao National and Deputy of the Portiuguese India in the National Assembly. Also writing by Menezes Braganza.

11. Ao Cabo de um ano de caminho, Dr. Jose  Bossa, July 1, 1947.

12. A Lusiranizacao de Goa, Artigo original de Mariano Saldo.

13. Portugal and its Overseas Provinces, the Case of Goa. Agencia Geral do Ultramar. Excerpt from Dr. Salazar’s address to his council of ministers in July 1953.

14. Portugal and the Far East, Statements of policy by the President of the Council of Ministers.


Does anyone has time to translate the Portuguese ones for me or for us?



Eugene Correia

Nuno Cardoso da Silva

unread,
Dec 4, 2023, 8:44:39 AM12/4/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
Dear Eugene,
 
I do not have the possibility of translating all of them, but I would be happy to translate the one you felt would be of greater interest to you. Maybe other people could help with others.
 
Please do not take offense, but I sometimes wonder why more Goan people do not take the trouble to learn some Portuguese. It is the sixth most spoken language in the world and it must for sure have a place in your cultural history.
 
All the best
 
Nuno Cardoso da Silva
 
 
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2023 at 11:36 PM
From: "Eugene Correia" <eugene....@gmail.com>
To: "Goa-Research-Net" <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [GRN] Pamphlets
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to goa-research-n...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAJhbo_7aHM6ONSOPS4dMLSfWgWX%3DN%2B248fCBK1TJo_MuPCtQpg%40mail.gmail.com.

Eugene Correia

unread,
Dec 4, 2023, 10:51:19 AM12/4/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
Dear Nuno,

I did attempt to learn Portuguese. I bought the Linguaphone cassettes about ten years ago. I did pick up some of it, but friends told me that you got to have some Portuguese to converse daily. The best place in Toronto to meet a lot of Portuguese people is downtown Toronto, where there's a club, on College Street.
In the suburb of Milton, about more than an hour from downtown Toronto, I didn't find people. I heard an elderly couple on the lawns speak in Portuguese and I stopped to say hai. To keep up with the language one has to use daily, isn't so?
My uncle, dad's cousin, wrote in three languages, English, Konkani and Portuguese, and he was a journalist and freedom fighter. My dad didn't know Portuguese, and so do in my extended family. Some just a shattering of Portuguse.
I love the tone of the language. I am Bombay-born, educated and worked in an English newspaper. I never lived in Goa, just went for holidays. 
It's too late in the day, as I am in my mid-70s, to learn the language, and not knowing how much I will use it.
Since I had the booklets, I just put on the GRN. My topic is Goa's socio-political development in the post-61 era, with a little bit of backhistory of the freedom struggle. I want to know if the then prevailing debate whether it was Liberation or Annexation is still heard in selected quarters. I would talk to some elderly people who lived in Portuguese Goa and post-61. I need to get views from both sides. I have the book India's Use of Force in Goa, by Prof. Arthur Rubinoff, though I can't find it right now. I will search for it. I also told Arthur that the book is missing. To cut a long story short, I gave access to a Goan and he took my whole library. I had to go to Small Claims Court, paying $600 for a lawyer, to get the books. Perhaps, he has kept some books hidden, as he didn't take me to his house. He kept the books for me to take back in the garage.
Regards,

Eugene Correia



To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/trinity-dc68120b-00d2-4601-a2c9-1aad82a12b64-1701694333522%403c-app-mailcom-bs07.

Nuno Cardoso da Silva

unread,
Dec 4, 2023, 2:41:27 PM12/4/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
Dear Eugene, 
 
Learning a foreign language becomes difficult after a certain age. I tried Mandarin for four years when I was already in my sixties, and I realized I wasn't going to be successful, although I could recognize close to 1,000 characters, about one third of what I would have needed...So I gave it up. I wish I had started sooner...
 
As to tranlating for you, if you can send me a copy of the text you would like to have translated, I would very much like to give it a try.
 
Regards
 
Nuno
 
 
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2023 at 2:04 PM
From: "Eugene Correia" <eugene....@gmail.com>
To: goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [GRN] Pamphlets

Eugene Correia

unread,
Dec 4, 2023, 3:49:19 PM12/4/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
Dear Nuno,
I have them in printed form. I need to scan one of them and sent it to you.

Regards,

Eugene

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/trinity-2247e9de-d56b-4d29-a50c-52334e318d3e-1701706225622%403c-app-mailcom-bs07.

John de Figueiredo

unread,
Dec 4, 2023, 8:03:13 PM12/4/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
Place in cultural history?
It is impossible to understand the history of Goa without knowing Portuguese. This is one reason why Charles Boxer and Panduronga Pissurlencar were so successful. They knew Portuguese.
Translations, especially of old documents, are hopeless.
Traduttore, traditore,
John M. de Figueiredo 




Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 4, 2023, at 5:42 PM, 'Nuno Cardoso da Silva' via Goa-Research-Net <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



fredericknoronha

unread,
Dec 4, 2023, 8:14:37 PM12/4/23
to Goa-Research-Net
I know people who also argue that it's also impossible to study Goa without knowing literary and spoken Konkani (at least two or more scripts... not to forget its many dialects), plus Marathi (and we are not even talking about Modi, the script which almost everyone has forgotten... but the State authorities have made some feeble efforts to re-teach recently). 

And they're all right.

Now how exactly is one human being will meet such challenges in one lifetime and is going to be so linguistically endowed (though some are) really beats me. I'm sure there must be some workaround. But, on the other hand, I've been waiting for Google Translate for simply too long, and while the Konkanverter.com can do some passable transliterations (between Kannada script, Devanagari, Romi and Malayalam but not the right-to-left written Perso-Arabic), its results can sometimes also be unintendedly comical. 

Goa (whose people wrote in a total of 22 languages, across the 20th century) indeed deserves a Translation Centre, that looks at multiple languages and scripts too,  involving not just people working on literature but the Humanities and even possibly the Sciences. FN

PS: This is not a case for monolingualism. Or even bilingualism.

John de Figueiredo

unread,
Dec 5, 2023, 4:14:33 AM12/5/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
I agree with you, Frederick.
The language of all Goans (as Mourão Garcez Palha reminded us) is Konkani. The Goans learned those other languages out of necessity. Some Goans also spoke Portuguese (and this sub -group included Hindu men and women), also out of historical fate and necessity. What is remarkable is that the Goans mastered those other languages and many Goans spoke and wrote in them better than the native speakers of those languages. Many Goans (like Francisco Correia Afonso, for example) gave brilliant speeches and wrote wonderful essays in Portuguese even though they never had any formal education in that language (except, maybe, for elementary school).
My point is that English was never the language of the Goans in Goa. It was imposed upon the Goans after the annexation of Goa.
The prime example of the forced British ( or Indo-British) acculturation of the Goans is what happened to Escola Medica. This School (like many other schools in Goa) was eliminated even though there was a plan in place to improve it and maintain the teaching in Portuguese approved by the central Government of India. It was replaced by a Medical College where medicine is taught, not in Portuguese, not in Konkani, but in English, the language of the British colonialists (and racists!).
Compare this to what the Jews did in Israel. They  resurrected Hebrew, a dead language. Let us not forget that it took demonstrations, protests, even deaths, for Konkani to be the official language of Goa. As far as I know, it did not take protests,  demonstrations, and deaths for Hebrew to be resurrected and become the official language of Israel.
Sorry for this long digression. 
John M. de Figueiredo 
Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 4, 2023, at 8:14 PM, fredericknoronha <frederic...@gmail.com> wrote:

I know people who also argue that it's also impossible to study Goa without knowing literary and spoken Konkani (at least two or more scripts... not to forget its many dialects), plus Marathi (and we are not even talking about Modi, the script which almost everyone has forgotten... but the State authorities have made some feeble efforts to re-teach recently). 

Frederick Noronha

unread,
Dec 5, 2023, 5:30:48 AM12/5/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
In part, I agree.

But here we are also debating the dominant languages in Goan discourse.  It's perhaps best not to mix up that with the origins of each language (or their influence on Goa, at different points of history).

A look at 20th century Goa would suggest that the dominant language kept shifting multiple times across that very period.  From Portuguese to Romi Konkani (esp among expat communities in places like Bombay) to English (among the more upwardly mobile, and those from Bardez with access to the century-old schools in the triangle of Arpora-Parra-Saligao).  Then to Marathi (more post-1961, but not bereft of it before) and English.  Finally ending solidly in the pro-Devanagari camp after this was sealed with the post-1987 Official Language Act.  So, political power shifts have to be seen in relation to language dominance and preference.

The boost given to English after 1961 was both because the new ascendent officialdom (and some part of the expat Goan community) was more comfortable in that language.  Our debates here partly reflect that reality.  Including this very thread.

But we might not be able to go so far as to say any language was never the language of Goans in Goa.  Because (1) language realities keep shifting (2) people in small communities like Goa are often borrowing other languages, to use as if these were their own.

Goa, and especially its diaspora, has been known for its high level of multilingualism.  Goans and members of the Goan diaspora have written in diverse languages across the centuries.  These include: Konkani, English, Portuguese, Marathi, Hindi, Sanskrit, Pali, Kannada, Sinhala, Tamil, French, German, Spanish, Norwegian, Latin, Kiswahili, Swedish, Italian, among others.

People compare what the Russians and Japanese and Jews have managed with their respective languages.  But I think this might not be an apt comparison, especially given the size and numbers of Konkani (and also complications like its multiplicity of scripts).

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/DB264926-F41D-45AF-954A-5A58B5216917%40sbcglobal.net.

John de Figueiredo

unread,
Dec 5, 2023, 8:35:02 AM12/5/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
Here history and the comparative method are helpful teachers. Again, look at the Jews. They too migrated all over, lived in small communities, adopted new languages, and were often the target of horrific discrimination, including slavery and genocide.
But they resurrected Hebrew and made it the official language of Israel. They could have easily said: “Are you kidding? Hebrew is a dead language. English is better. Let us make English our language.” But that is not what they said and did. And again, it did not take protests, demonstrations, and deaths for them to do what they did. There was collective consensus among all Jews on this issue. 
Konkani is the language of the Goans. But the Goans appear to have lost sight of this fact. Even enthusiastic reminders by non-Goans (like Cunha Rivara) or descendants of non-Goans who considered themselves Goans (like Mourão Garcez Palha) were insufficient to produce a collective consensus on this fundamental truth, apparently even to this date. Perhaps it was easier for the Jews because Hebrew is linked to what it means to be a Jew. You cannot become a Jew unless you are fluent in Hebrew.
So much dust has been thrown on the eyes of the Goans about their language, their history, and their culture. This started centuries before the arrival of the Portuguese and continues even to this date. Maybe some day the dust will miraculously vanish. I doubt it will happen in my lifetime. 
John
Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 5, 2023, at 5:30 AM, Frederick Noronha <frederic...@gmail.com> wrote:



V M

unread,
Dec 5, 2023, 8:38:55 AM12/5/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
Goans in Goa pursued English language education with much alacrity from the second half of the 19th century. Few peoples anywhere - but especially the subcontinent - have ever embraced English so enthusiastically as the Goans. There's no question of imposition but merely access to opportunity, and Portuguese lost out for very good reasons. 

Elsewhere, of course, like all other Indians in their transnational dispersal, Goans have adopted and mastered a wide range of languages.I have been looking for Goan writing in Swahili. There must be some. If anyone has references, please share.

Warm regards,

VM



To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/DB264926-F41D-45AF-954A-5A58B5216917%40sbcglobal.net.


--
#2, Second Floor, Navelkar Trade Centre, Panjim, Goa
Cellphone 9326140754

John de Figueiredo

unread,
Dec 5, 2023, 9:34:01 AM12/5/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
Not all Goans pursued the English language. Some did, others did not. Some pursued the Portuguese language, others pursued Marathi.
English was never the dominant language in Goa before the annexation. It was the colonial language of the rest of India, that’s why it was imposed on the Goans. The switch from Portuguese to English was not an easy pass. It was very traumatic. Entire institutions, both public and private, were closed (private out of necessity). People lost their jobs. Had it not been for the annexation, English would not have been one of the dominant languages in Goa. These are the facts. The rest (such as “Portuguese lost out for very good reasons”) is politics. 
And it took protests, demonstrations, even deaths for the Goans to finally have their mother tongue (“dudh bhas”) recognized. If this is not forcing and imposition, what is? Certainly it contradicted Jawaharlal Nehru’s promise that “Goa will  continue to be an open window to the Portuguese culture”.
John
Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 5, 2023, at 8:38 AM, V M <vmi...@gmail.com> wrote:



Frederick Noronha

unread,
Dec 5, 2023, 9:53:04 AM12/5/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
An intriguing subject... discussed here. FN

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/9C1FC47B-28C4-41D3-8E57-28A0C31E2439%40sbcglobal.net.
eastlooswest.jpg

fredericknoronha

unread,
Dec 5, 2023, 3:36:09 PM12/5/23
to Goa-Research-Net
On Tuesday 5 December 2023 at 19:08:55 UTC+5:30 vmingoa wrote:
Goans in Goa pursued English language education with much alacrity from the second half of the 19th century. Few peoples anywhere - but especially the subcontinent - have ever embraced English so enthusiastically as the Goans. There's no question of imposition but merely access to opportunity, and Portuguese lost out for very good reasons. 


Would you see this as happening uniformly across Goa or in some pockets (such as parts of Bardez, and among the daispora in the then English-ruled regions)?
 

Elsewhere, of course, like all other Indians in their transnational dispersal, Goans have adopted and mastered a wide range of languages.I have been looking for Goan writing in Swahili. There must be some. If anyone has references, please share. 

fredericknoronha

unread,
Dec 5, 2023, 3:40:54 PM12/5/23
to Goa-Research-Net
The wider issue here is: Is Goa a monolingual or multilingual space?
Everyone pushing for diversity seems to be promoting monolingualism (or, at least that one language is somehow superior). As long as it's the language they themselves favour :-)
FN
PS: Even the claim about Goans "finally hav(ing) their mother tongue recognised" is a complex and very debatable one, given the realities of script and dialect, and what OLA 1987 actually meant to the Konkani language itself.

John de Figueiredo

unread,
Dec 6, 2023, 5:42:36 AM12/6/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
Under the Kadambas the court language was Kannada because they infiltrated into Goa from Karnataka and took over. But Konkani survived.
Vijayanagara ruled Goa for some time and mandated the use of their languages, Kannada and Telugu. But Konkani survived.
Bijapur made Marathi the official language, partly because Yusuf Adil Khsn (the “Idalcao” of the Portuguese) was married to a Marathi princess. (To his credit, it was his only wife even though he could have had more than one, being a Muslim.) But Konkani survived.
In the 16th and 17th centuries  the Portuguese tried to impose their language. But Konkani survived. (To their credit the Portuguese eventually recognized this was an error and tried to encourage the Goans to promote Konkani, but for a long time their appeal fell into deaf ears.) And Konkani continued to flourish.
Is Konkani going to disappear now? If it does, it will be buried in the same grave as Escola Normal, Liceu, Escola Medica, Instituto Vasco da Gama, Academia de Música, and Orquestra Sinfónica de Goa. And we can all sing the Requiem to what is meant to be a Goan. 
John

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 5, 2023, at 3:40 PM, fredericknoronha <frederic...@gmail.com> wrote:

The wider issue here is: Is Goa a monolingual or multilingual space?
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to goa-research-n...@googlegroups.com.

Eugene Correia

unread,
Dec 6, 2023, 5:42:57 AM12/6/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
Sevigne Gama-Pinto Athaide also wrote a "brochure" as what she called it, small phamplet, Genesis of Linguistic States with reference to Goa. This was the first publication of the Goan Socio-Cultural Association, of Bombay, in its series to "publish books
on all aspects of "Goan life in particular and Ind Indian life in general. I have no idea if any other books, brochures, pamphlets, were published, at least not when I was on its committee.
I was a member of the executive committee in the late 70s when she asked me and a couple of young adults to go along with her to Peter Alvares, one of the leaders of the Goa freedom movement, and later Member of Parliament, representing the Praja Socialist Party.

Eugene


On Tue, Dec 5, 2023 at 8:51 PM Eugene Correia <eugene....@gmail.com> wrote:
It should be "Whither Goa?", and I think it changed to "weather", call it spell-check, error, perhaps it was because of the "uncomfortable" weather on the subject of Liberation vs Annexation, a point made here. (ha, ha).

Eugene

On Tue, Dec 5, 2023 at 8:37 PM Eugene Correia <eugene....@gmail.com> wrote:
In this discussion, I think what would happen if Goa had merged with Maharashtra? This thought came to me just as I re-read the phamplet, Weather Goa? by SGP Athaide, written in 1965. A member of the MGP party and was the Christian nominee of the Bombay Christian community to the Upper House of the Maharashtra Assembly.
Not many know that she's sister of Kenyan martyr Pio Gama Pinto, the SGP in her name stands for her first name, Sevigne, Gama Pinto, and she wss married to Louis Athaide.
Now is her old age, she resides in Caranzalem, in a housing society. I was invited to the apartment for a small get-together by her daughter, Leila. I was dismayed that she was hard of talking, and just exchanged looks and a smile. It was the late CM Bandodkar who recommended her to then Maharashtra Chief Minister, Vasantrao Naik. 
History students or Goans who were in their middle ages in the 60s, will remember her going on fast against Handoo, was his first name GK, the adviser to the civil govt after a short time with military govt under Gen. Candeth, and then against her political godfather, Bandodkar, in 1965, calling him a "benevolent dictator" and not doing enough for Goa.

Eugene



On Tue, Dec 5, 2023 at 8:17 PM Eugene Correia <eugene....@gmail.com> wrote:
I think someone like Prof. Peter Nazareth can throw light on this subject. Maybe, his brother, John Nazareth, may also have some details. Or, he could get Peter to forward it to him, and John could post it here. I haven't corresponded with Peter for a long time, and not sure if I still have his email.
Another person I can think of is Eddie Fernandes, and Madame Carvalho can request her good friend to do the needful. Eddie has a long experience as a Librarian and is an African Goan to boot.

Eugene

Eugene Correia

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to goa-research-n...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/5f809d03-ee9e-4c06-8349-ac5197d98a45n%40googlegroups.com.

V M

unread,
Dec 6, 2023, 10:04:17 AM12/6/23
to Goa-Research-Net
Dear Frederick,

Thank you very much for that German resource on Swahili - it turns out the first known written literature in that language was found in Goa! Amazing fact. I will examine closely for more places to look.

About the avid embrace of  English language education by Goans in Goa from the first decades of the 19th century, yes it is true it happened first in the Bardez villages where the majority of educated men went off to work in British India (and later to Persia, Aden, East Africa and Singapore as well). But by the 20th century, it was routine for all families of means to send their children to study in boarding schools across the border in Belgaum, Pune and much farther afield as well. 

It has always fascinated me how disproportionately the Goans were represented from the beginning of college education "for natives" in Bombay - the first class at Grant Medical College was half Goans!

Warm regards,

VM


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to goa-research-n...@googlegroups.com.

John de Figueiredo

unread,
Dec 6, 2023, 9:13:40 PM12/6/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
On second thought I should correct myself about Hebrew. It was never a “dead language”. The Jews thought Hebrew to their children, no matter where they lived. Even to this date, if you approach a Rabi to convert to Judaism, the first thing you will hear from the Rabi is “you have to learn Hebrew”. They also recorded their traditions to form the Bible. This was important because the translations of the Bible were often incorrect. Even the order of the books in the Bible was changed to conform to the Christian belief that Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah. And it is remarkable that the Jews accomplished all this despite accusations of deicide, prejudice, and relentless genocide.
My point is that there is a danger that Konkani in Goa may eventually die of suffocation and benign neglect, having the same fate as the Portuguese language in Goa. And make no mistake. If Konkani dies, whatever is left of Goa will die with Konkani. 
Obviously this does not mean that we should not study other languages (in the case of the history of Goa, knowing Portuguese and Marathi is essential). All languages are precious.     
John M. de Figueiredo 
Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 6, 2023, at 10:04 AM, V M <vmi...@gmail.com> wrote:



Eugene Correia

unread,
Dec 7, 2023, 6:58:09 AM12/7/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
I saw in my small collection, a tattered copy of Yesterday, Today and... Tomorrow, A Tragicomedy in Three Acts and Twelve Scenes, by A.A Bruto da Costa, and I suppose he was a Doctor, perhaps a medical doctor. It was published in 1963.
However, I post here to know if anyone has a copy, for the first page of mine is tattered and the cover-page and inside page is unreadable. If some has the play, I wish to get a copy of the cover and inside pages. I read it decades ago, and since the Goa Liberation anniversary is coming up, I wish to quote from it. I am not very sure know if the play was an attempt at India's takeover of Goa and what the future holds or was it predicting a "tragicomedy", as Bruto da Costa envisaged Goa would become in later years.
I know he addressed a Letter to Nehru, but don't know where I could locate it. Does anyone know if it's in the Goa University Library or elsewhere?
Also re-reading, Goan Struggle for Freedom by M.K. Gandhi, published by Navajivan Publishing House. Recollecting Liberation and the glow of freedom. Where has Goa gone?

Eugene Correia


Eugene Correia



To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAN1wPW5FafnKEpajsOt3FB96vVXzobQWtjMG48%2BVZBRASUWozw%40mail.gmail.com.

sandra lobo

unread,
Dec 11, 2023, 3:51:29 AM12/11/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
Bruto da Costa was a lawyer, journalist and politician who defended the right of Goan people to decide their own political future




Sandra Ataíde Lobo  


         

Home (gieipc-ip.org)                              https://praticasdahistoria.pt/

tmn. ++351 930690459


De: goa-rese...@googlegroups.com <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com> em nome de Eugene Correia <eugene....@gmail.com>
Enviado: 6 de dezembro de 2023 15:27
Para: goa-rese...@googlegroups.com <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com>
Assunto: Re: [GRN] Pamphlets
 

Edgar Valles

unread,
Dec 11, 2023, 9:02:56 AM12/11/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
In fact, his son, Mario Bruto da Costa, a well known Senior Advocate in Panjim, published a book titled "Goa-The Third Path", about six years ago, with the main articles, letters  and essays of his father, Antonio Bruto da Costa.


Aviso de Confidencialidade

Este correio eletrónico, assim como qualquer ficheiro anexo ao mesmo contém informação confidencial e legalmente protegida, exclusivamente dirigida ao destinatário. No caso de haver recebido este correio por erro, requer-se notificar imediatamente deste facto mediante o reenvio à direção eletrónica do remetente e o mesmo deve ser imediatamente apagado; é advertido que qualquer transmissão, cópia ou uso desta informação é proibida; informação protegida pelo sigilo profissional contido no art. 113.º do Estatuto da Ordem dos Advogados da República Portuguesa. Obrigado.

Privacy Warning

This e-mail and any attachments contain privileged and confidential information and legally protected, intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copying or use of information within it is strictly prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error or without authorization, please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and delete the e-mail from your system; information protected by professional secrecy contained in the Statute of the Bar Association of the Portuguese Republic. Thank you in advance 



Helder Garmes

unread,
Dec 11, 2023, 9:03:13 AM12/11/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com

Dear Eugene Correia,
I know the letter to Nehru was published in Portuguese in the book Goa: Terceira Corrente - discursos, artigos, cartas e defesas forenses (2013), by Bruto da Costa.
Best,
Helder



--
Prof. Dr. Helder Garmes
Departamento de Letras Clássicas e Vernáculas
Faculdade de Filosofia, Letras e Ciências Humanas
Universidade de São Paulo

Carvalho

unread,
Dec 11, 2023, 9:03:38 AM12/11/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
Eugene would have passed his house a hundred times in Margao. These are the times I miss Valmiki the most and the fact that he never got published the book on Margao he was working on. We have lost an invaluable source of local and lived history in Valmiki.

All best,
Selma

Eugene Correia

unread,
Dec 11, 2023, 9:05:10 AM12/11/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
Thanks Sandra. I was aware of him being a lawyer, as his play is a 'tragi-comedy'. Obviously, he was for Goa to be run by Goans. But, it was a long shot, and the reality of it was not very visible to those who fought for freedom. Portugal should have done like France did in Pondicherry, but with a twist. The colonial masters should have selected a bunch of eminent Goans, some of them in Parliament, and asked them to take over.
A lost opportunity for Portugal to act honourably and bravely and earn the respect of the world. Goans would be happy, but the stakes were high in administrating Goa. 

Eugene 

sandra lobo

unread,
Dec 11, 2023, 10:04:09 AM12/11/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
Hi Eugene. It was a very difficult situation 






Sandra Ataíde Lobo  


         

Home (gieipc-ip.org)                              https://praticasdahistoria.pt/

tmn. ++351 930690459


Enviado: 11 de dezembro de 2023 13:34

Nuno Cardoso da Silva

unread,
Dec 11, 2023, 1:24:52 PM12/11/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
Being myself Portuguese, I always thought that the honourable thing for us to do, would have been granting self-rule to Goa, maybe within a confederal status with Portugal. A solution which should have been extended to all "Overseas Provinces". Unfortunately most of us were not that smart...
 
Nuno Cardoso da Silva
 
 
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2023 at 1:34 PM
From: "Eugene Correia" <eugene....@gmail.com>

To: goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [GRN] Pamphlets

Edgar Valles

unread,
Dec 11, 2023, 6:07:46 PM12/11/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
Portugal should have done like France did in Pondicherry?

No, Portugal should have done  what the United Nations did in Timor-Leste, also a colony in Asia...


Aviso de Confidencialidade

Este correio eletrónico, assim como qualquer ficheiro anexo ao mesmo contém informação confidencial e legalmente protegida, exclusivamente dirigida ao destinatário. No caso de haver recebido este correio por erro, requer-se notificar imediatamente deste facto mediante o reenvio à direção eletrónica do remetente e o mesmo deve ser imediatamente apagado; é advertido que qualquer transmissão, cópia ou uso desta informação é proibida; informação protegida pelo sigilo profissional contido no art. 113.º do Estatuto da Ordem dos Advogados da República Portuguesa. Obrigado.

Privacy Warning

This e-mail and any attachments contain privileged and confidential information and legally protected, intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copying or use of information within it is strictly prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error or without authorization, please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and delete the e-mail from your system; information protected by professional secrecy contained in the Statute of the Bar Association of the Portuguese Republic. Thank you in advance 


To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAJhbo_6iK4LUQOR1u420xrbH_Ds2LaQCfo%2BxzZYMEz-rQdAYZA%40mail.gmail.com.

Eugene Correia

unread,
Dec 11, 2023, 6:09:48 PM12/11/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
Hi all,
It's nice to remember A.A. Bruto da Costa and his thoughts on why he felt it was a "tragi-comedy". I read it many years ago, and have forgotten the gist of it now. I would like to read it again, but my copy is all in tatters. Revisiting those heady days of the pre-Liberation/Annexation period and the post-Liberation/Annexation passage of time. I have no experience of those days when Goa was on the boil. 
As for Selma's remarks, let me say that I visited Goa just for three weeks to a month during my school and college days. During my working period in Bombay, I made trips to Goa for a week or so. The only time I was there for a long time was when I went for the National Football Championships -- Santosh Trophy. -- hosted by Goa, as I did some reporting. I visited very rarely. Though i am from Colva and we had a house, which is land-grabbed by a notorious guy who was a panch, we went to our mom's house in Bogmalo. 
I wish someone could scan the play by Bruto da Costa and make it available to those who want to read it. Margao had its own crowd which fancied the Portuguese.
Eugene

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAM9Q5-ZuyfLvuCOis6R29Jraa8g7QEX%3DqjoBZty3i4vFjBHqQw%40mail.gmail.com.

John de Figueiredo

unread,
Dec 12, 2023, 2:40:36 AM12/12/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
To Nuno:
As the old phrase of Viceroy Count of São Vicente goes (repeated over and over), “a India (Portuguesa) só se vê de muito longe e só se ouve muito tarde” (Portuguese India is only seen from far away and heard too late). With flowers turned into concrete (as Vivek Menezes described), Goa is gone with the monsoon.
JM de Figueiredo 
Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 11, 2023, at 1:24 PM, 'Nuno Cardoso da Silva' via Goa-Research-Net <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com> wrote:


Being myself Portuguese, I always thought that the honourable thing for us to do, would have been granting self-rule to Goa, maybe within a confederal status with Portugal. A solution which should have been extended to all "Overseas Provinces". Unfortunately most of us were not that smart...
 
Nuno Cardoso da Silva
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2023 at 1:34 PM
From: "Eugene Correia" <eugene....@gmail.com>
To: goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [GRN] Pamphlets
Thanks Sandra. I was aware of him being a lawyer, as his play is a 'tragi-comedy'. Obviously, he was for Goa to be run by Goans. But, it was a long shot, and the reality of it was not very visible to those who fought for freedom. Portugal should have done like France did in Pondicherry, but with a twist. The colonial masters should have selected a bunch of eminent Goans, some of them in Parliament, and asked them to take over.
A lost opportunity for Portugal to act honourably and bravely and earn the respect of the world. Goans would be happy, but the stakes were high in administrating Goa. 
 
Eugene 
 
On Mon, Dec 11, 2023 at 3:51 AM sandra lobo <sandr...@netcabo.pt> wrote:
Bruto da Costa was a lawyer, journalist and politician who defended the right of Goan people to decide their own political future
 
 

 

 

Sandra Ataíde Lobo  

<mime-attachment.png>
<mime-attachment.png>

<mime-attachment.png>
         
<mime-attachment.png>

Home (gieipc-ip.org)                              https://praticasdahistoria.pt/

tmn. ++351 930690459

Edgar Valles

unread,
Dec 12, 2023, 3:26:03 PM12/12/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
Antonio Bruto da Costa and a quite large group of goans wanted a "terceira via" (third path). This is the title of the book his son, Mario Bruto do Costa published.
They didn't want Goa to stay as a Portuguese colony but they also didn't want to be integrated in India, saying that goans had their own identity.
They thought it was possible a third path and also that Portugal should allow goans to decide what they wanted.
He has sent letters to Salazar and had many problems with Portuguese authorities.
Of course, it was a dream, considering the historical situation of Goa, a tiny territory encircled by India...
But it is interesting for those who study decolonization to know that there was this third path....




Aviso de Confidencialidade

Este correio eletrónico, assim como qualquer ficheiro anexo ao mesmo contém informação confidencial e legalmente protegida, exclusivamente dirigida ao destinatário. No caso de haver recebido este correio por erro, requer-se notificar imediatamente deste facto mediante o reenvio à direção eletrónica do remetente e o mesmo deve ser imediatamente apagado; é advertido que qualquer transmissão, cópia ou uso desta informação é proibida; informação protegida pelo sigilo profissional contido no art. 113.º do Estatuto da Ordem dos Advogados da República Portuguesa. Obrigado.

Privacy Warning

This e-mail and any attachments contain privileged and confidential information and legally protected, intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copying or use of information within it is strictly prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error or without authorization, please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and delete the e-mail from your system; information protected by professional secrecy contained in the Statute of the Bar Association of the Portuguese Republic. Thank you in advance 


To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAJhbo_5ErZggyJnwLpz_NMDKAr3W9V4T0ML%3Dkw1C95dnqRNVZA%40mail.gmail.com.

Eugene Correia

unread,
Dec 12, 2023, 3:28:43 PM12/12/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
Well, Portugal withdrew from East Timor, as the independence movement was fierce. I don't think Portugal keeping East Timor as one of its colonies would be a financial benefit. Seemingly, East Timor was a "basket case' for Portugal while Goa was a "rich basket". Colonial politics in those times rested on "gains and loses" and Portugal let go off of East Timor but reluctantly held on to Goa.
As events proved later on, Indian patience ran out. Knowing well that Salszar would find it difficult to keep Goa in its embrace by engaging India in a war, it was a walk-over as we know it. Goa's freedom did ring a bell in African countries and the Non-Alignment Movement gained momentum and slowly but surely the continent of Africa was free of colonial rule. No self-respecting people like subjugation by a foreign power when the people's consciousness and national pride comes to the fore.
What would happen to Goa if it continued to be under Portuguese rule is nobody's guess. France was wise, as it earned respect. Portugal was humbled and disgraced. History is dotted with such examples.

Eugene Correia

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAEXcPuqcx45PhFALy%2BxNBsq3ry-ne96fq1xg_WrkywtVPd5U4w%40mail.gmail.com.

fredericknoronha

unread,
Dec 12, 2023, 4:01:58 PM12/12/23
to Goa-Research-Net
Something makes me want to disagree with quite a few of the comments made, and conclusions drawn, below:

(1) My reading is that Portugal dealt with East Timor in the way it did more due to the turmoil at that time in Portugal itself, the Carnation Revolution, abrupt change in political direction, etc. Open to correction here.

(2) About Goa being a "rich basket", economic studies and other accepted analyses suggest otherwise. Salazar could have (rightly) seen a "domino effect" starting in Goa. Something that undercut the plank on which his ideology was based. Plus, in the Portuguese imagination over centuries, Goa meant something rather different. Call this emotional reasons, or whatever you wish.

(3) "Indian patience ran out" is a shorthand argument which has, unfortunately, been widely accepted in our perspective on the issue. If you read the trajectory of events as outlined in Valmiki Faleiro's recent book, you might conclude otherwise.

(4) 1961 in Goa has to be also viewed in the context of the Cold War. Some studies here have begun looking in that direction. This issue is not only about India and Portugal, let alone Goa.

(5) This "France was wise" or "Portugal could have followed France" logic has been put forth repeatedly, and seldom challenged. It is based on an acute misunderstanding of what happened in Pondicherry. For instance, a perusal of the recently-published The Portuguese Presence in India (Notion Press, 2020)  by João A de Menezes, p.198-212, could easily make one rethink this argument. This argument has come up a few times in this forum too, and then we end up taking it as accurate. 

FN

Edgar Valles

unread,
Dec 12, 2023, 5:20:59 PM12/12/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
Goa was not a "rich basket" for Portugal. It was a loss in the 19th and 20 th centuries.
East Timor people got independence as they fought hard against Indonesia, not because Portugal wanted to get rid of a colony.
In fact, the Bandung Conference, held in 1955, defined that each colonial people should have self determination. There was any resolution allowing an invasion from another country, even under the pretext of liberation or loss of "patience"...
Of course, now it is too late. Goa is a state of India. 
But  we have to realize that Goans didn't exercise the right of self determination. Opinion poll in 1967 was not an exercise of self determination. 
Of course, now it is too late. But we cannot deny facts...




Aviso de Confidencialidade

Este correio eletrónico, assim como qualquer ficheiro anexo ao mesmo contém informação confidencial e legalmente protegida, exclusivamente dirigida ao destinatário. No caso de haver recebido este correio por erro, requer-se notificar imediatamente deste facto mediante o reenvio à direção eletrónica do remetente e o mesmo deve ser imediatamente apagado; é advertido que qualquer transmissão, cópia ou uso desta informação é proibida; informação protegida pelo sigilo profissional contido no art. 113.º do Estatuto da Ordem dos Advogados da República Portuguesa. Obrigado.

Privacy Warning

This e-mail and any attachments contain privileged and confidential information and legally protected, intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copying or use of information within it is strictly prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error or without authorization, please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and delete the e-mail from your system; information protected by professional secrecy contained in the Statute of the Bar Association of the Portuguese Republic. Thank you in advance 


To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAJhbo_4Cb70MaH5nuDt1xUM_AVi9BW4MJxZK%3DuLTF5ETF_yCWA%40mail.gmail.com.

Nuno Cardoso da Silva

unread,
Dec 12, 2023, 5:21:11 PM12/12/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
Pity Salazar did not recognize how well founded Bruto da Costa's idea was. It would have been a lot better for millions of peoples in three continents.
 
 
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2023 at 10:54 AM
From: "Edgar Valles" <diasv...@gmail.com>

To: goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [GRN] Pamphlets

Nuno Cardoso da Silva

unread,
Dec 12, 2023, 5:22:06 PM12/12/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
Eugene,
 
To be defeated by a much stronger power which didn't give a damn about international law could never humble or disgrace Portugal, but it certainly disgraced the fake pacifist who then ruled India. Having said this, I repeat that Portugal should have recognized Goa's right to self rule and should have negotiated with all Overseas Provinces a treaty which would have recognized their sovereignty and the right of the peoples of all territories to freely travel to and establish themselves in any other of those territories. Something we may soon have in our present days, but which could have been achieved much sooner and much more peacefully.
 
Nuno Cardoso da Silva
 
 
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2023 at 2:48 AM
From: "Eugene Correia" <eugene....@gmail.com>

To: goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [GRN] Pamphlets

fredericknoronha

unread,
Dec 12, 2023, 5:22:50 PM12/12/23
to Goa-Research-Net
Hindsight, they say, is perfect vision. 20/20.
FN

John de Figueiredo

unread,
Dec 12, 2023, 6:33:31 PM12/12/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
Good points, Frederick.
The geographical argument does not count either.
Monaco is of the size of 314 acres, with a population a little over 36,000, speaking French, and surrounded all 3 sides by France. The third side is along the sea just as Goa. But Monaco is an independent nation.
Bruto da Costa wanted a plebiscite for the Goans to decide on the future of Goa. This plebiscite never took place.
At any rate, if flowers became concrete, this conversation is irrelevant because the Goa we are discussing is no more. 
John
Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 12, 2023, at 4:02 PM, fredericknoronha <frederic...@gmail.com> wrote:

Something makes me want to disagree with quite a few of the comments made, and conclusions drawn, below:
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to goa-research-n...@googlegroups.com.

Nuno Cardoso da Silva

unread,
Dec 12, 2023, 6:33:54 PM12/12/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
In fact some of us agreed with Bruto da Costa's ideas, even before things got sour. Unfortunately not enough people did it...
 
 
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2023 at 10:22 PM
From: "fredericknoronha" <frederic...@gmail.com>
To: "Goa-Research-Net" <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [GRN] Pamphlets

Joao Paulo Cota

unread,
Dec 12, 2023, 7:18:13 PM12/12/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
Worth pointing out that Monaco does not have any army, air force or navy.
Its defence needs are being provided by France.
Hence the same analogy would mean, India would need to provide that to Goa, being its immediate neighbour... realistically, I can't see that happening.
JP

From: goa-rese...@googlegroups.com <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of John de Figueiredo <john...@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: 12 December 2023 23:09
To: goa-rese...@googlegroups.com <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [GRN] Pamphlets
 

Edgar Valles

unread,
Dec 13, 2023, 4:46:42 AM12/13/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
To analyse the past, without nostalgia,  is always good...


Aviso de Confidencialidade

Este correio eletrónico, assim como qualquer ficheiro anexo ao mesmo contém informação confidencial e legalmente protegida, exclusivamente dirigida ao destinatário. No caso de haver recebido este correio por erro, requer-se notificar imediatamente deste facto mediante o reenvio à direção eletrónica do remetente e o mesmo deve ser imediatamente apagado; é advertido que qualquer transmissão, cópia ou uso desta informação é proibida; informação protegida pelo sigilo profissional contido no art. 113.º do Estatuto da Ordem dos Advogados da República Portuguesa. Obrigado.

Privacy Warning

This e-mail and any attachments contain privileged and confidential information and legally protected, intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copying or use of information within it is strictly prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error or without authorization, please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and delete the e-mail from your system; information protected by professional secrecy contained in the Statute of the Bar Association of the Portuguese Republic. Thank you in advance 


To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/A3D036AD-7F50-4D20-9DDA-33D3A37D5228%40sbcglobal.net.

John de Figueiredo

unread,
Dec 13, 2023, 4:47:06 AM12/13/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
Valmiki Faleiro stated that the economic blockade placed by the Government of India proved Goa to be perfectly capable of being self-sufficient and he demonstrated that Goa produced distinguished officers in the army, Air Force, and navy. So that argument does not seem to be supported by data. All the pieces of the puzzle were in place but the puzzle was never solved. 
John
Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 12, 2023, at 7:18 PM, Joao Paulo Cota <joao...@hotmail.com> wrote:



John de Figueiredo

unread,
Dec 14, 2023, 7:56:54 AM12/14/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
Edgar,
It is good when we can learn from the past, correct our errors, and build a better future. Unfortunately once flowers become concrete, the concrete does not become flowers again. 
John
Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 13, 2023, at 4:46 AM, Edgar Valles <diasv...@gmail.com> wrote:



Pedro Mascarenhas

unread,
Dec 15, 2023, 2:34:00 AM12/15/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
Divide and rule.
If every bit of India had been colonized by Germany, Belgium, Spain, France, Italy, Austria, Russia, Turkey, Great Britain, Holland, Denmark and Portugal, etc., then, by the express will of the former colonizers, every bit of India, should have been dispersed into a thousand independent lands, eternalizing the motto “divide and rule” as in the time of the maharajas. A thousand years ago Portugal did not exist, but today it exists and was founded by force of arms. Was a referendum held among the inhabitants to ask if they wanted to form a country that would be called Portugal? Was a referendum held for the Portuguese people on whether or not Portugal should be an integral part of the European Union and whether or not the shield should be replaced by the euro? No, in none of these cases was a popular consultation carried out.

Well.......
​
Inline image

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dividir para reinar. Se cada pedaço da Índia tivesse sido colonizada pela Alemanha, Bélgica, Espanha, França, Itália, Áustria, Rússia, Turquia, Grã-Bretanha, Holanda, Dinamarca e Portugal, etc., então, por vontade expressa dos ex-colonizadores, cada pedaço da Índia, deveria ter sido pulverizada em mil terras independentes, eternizando o lema «dividir para reinar» como no tempo dos maharajas. Há mil anos atrás Portugal não existia, mas hoje existe e foi fundado pela força das armas. Foi feito um referendo aos habitantes para indagar se queiram formar um país que se chamaria Portugal? Foi feito um referendo ao povo português sobre se Portugal deveria ou não fazer parte integrante de União Europeia e se o escudo deveria ou não ser substituído pelo euro? Não, em nenhum destes casos foi feito uma consulta popular. 




Joao Paulo Cota

unread,
Dec 15, 2023, 2:34:00 AM12/15/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
The economic blockade was designed to disrupt the imports from overseas and from inland India.
Agree that Goa produced manpower for the three military branches, but having its own military bases, airports and naval quarters alongwith tanks, fighter jets, warships of all classes, are a total different ballgame.
Goa's iron ore and other small industries would not generate enough GDP to fund all that plus run the state.
It could never be an independent country. Just too small in size... although there were valid calls for this due to the unique Goan identity.
Regards,
Joao Paulo
Sent: 13 December 2023 01:03

Eugene Correia

unread,
Dec 15, 2023, 2:34:00 AM12/15/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
In retrospect, those who didn't like India taking Goa by military force were happy at the thought Ihat breached International law. The UN too said in no small terms. I read Leo Lawrence's book, Nehru Seizes Goa, a long time ago and also Prof. Arthur Rubinoff's India's Use of Force in Goa. One of the issues I would like to tackle if I get accepted to the Ph. D program is to seek people's views on Annexation vs Liberation issue. Is the issue dead, now that Goa is "integral part" of India?
Some may have feel for loss of Portuguese rule and the benefits gained by people, especially people in the Upper Crust of Society. Today, the plateau is even and, despite the political ill-winds blowing randomly to disturb the solemnity of communal harmony that Goa is famous for, the overall picture is rather pleasant, not exceedingly good.
Past history is to be recollected and praised for what it did for Goa. The portents for Portuguese rule coming to an end was visible but Portugal refused to see them. The self-rule aspect was an option that Portugal should have followed to its letter and spirit. Today, we have Facebook or WhatsApp groups named Goans for Goa, Niz Goenkar, etc, which, to me, are just echoes in the gusty winds blowing from the ocean.
Goans feel proud to belong to Goa and imbibe the Portuguese spirit --- and wine. As we near the coming of Christmas, let's rejoice in what was once a fine example of Luso culture. The strains are still found in the present-day Goa and as time rolls on and new generations of Goans spring up, the Portuguese interlude will be completely relegated to the back. However, nostalgia for things Portuguese will remain and the youngsters need to learn how their elders lived under Portuguese masters. 
Cheers in advance to a happy Christmas season, and blessings to the Portuguese for coming to Goa and doing "fuloi, fuloi", a period not to be easily forgotten. 

Eugene Correia


To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/FBF8CF0C-708D-4396-B852-74595016F71E%40sbcglobal.net.

Bernardo de Sousa

unread,
Dec 15, 2023, 5:44:57 AM12/15/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
Here is a list of the 10 smallest countries without any iron ore or big industries that are all independent countries, rich and thriving. Your argument falls completely flat:

• Vatican City (0.19 square miles)
• Monaco (0.78 square miles)
• Nauru (8.1 square miles)
• Tuvalu (10 square miles)
• San Marino (24 square miles)
• Liechtenstein (62 square miles)
• Marshall Islands (70 square miles)
• Saint Kitts and Nevis (101 square miles)
• Maldives (120 square miles)
• Malta (122 square miles)

> On 13 Dec 2023, at 11:03, Joao Paulo Cota <joao...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> The economic blockade was designed to disrupt the imports from overseas and from inland India.
> Agree that Goa produced manpower for the three military branches, but having its own military bases, airports and naval quarters alongwith tanks, fighter jets, warships of all classes, are a total different ballgame.
> Goa's iron ore and other small industries would not generate enough GDP to fund all that plus run the state.
> It could never be an independent country. Just too small in size... although there were valid calls for this due to the unique Goan identity.
> Regards,
> Joao PauloFrom: goa-rese...@googlegroups.com <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of John de Figueiredo <john...@sbcglobal.net>
> Sent: 13 December 2023 01:03
> To: goa-rese...@googlegroups.com <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [GRN] Pamphlets
> Valmiki Faleiro stated that the economic blockade placed by the Government of India proved Goa to be perfectly capable of being self-sufficient and he demonstrated that Goa produced distinguished officers in the army, Air Force, and navy. So that argument does not seem to be supported by data. All the pieces of the puzzle were in place but the puzzle was never solved.
> John
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 12, 2023, at 7:18 PM, Joao Paulo Cota <joao...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Worth pointing out that Monaco does not have any army, air force or navy.
>> Its defence needs are being provided by France.
>> Hence the same analogy would mean, India would need to provide that to Goa, being its immediate neighbour... realistically, I can't see that happening.
>> JP
>>
> To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/GV2P195MB2161E084AB9E122A0D53F92E828DA%40GV2P195MB2161.EURP195.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM.


PEDRO MASCARENHAS

unread,
Dec 15, 2023, 9:12:40 PM12/15/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com

Nauru rich? With income from phosphate mining and a population of 4,000 people, Nauru is the richest island in the world per capita. Most Nauruans don't work and can enjoy the comforts of modern society. There has also been a documented loss of Nauruan traditions like subsistence farming as well as the violations of their rights to their own land and the continued human rights violations that continue at the Nauru detention center.[

Tuvalu problems : Is Tuvalu a rich or poor country? In addition to traditional agriculture and fishing, Tuvalu also relies heavily on international aid. The country is one of the smallest and poorest nations in the world, with limited natural resources and infrastructure.

Marshall Islands  need assistance: United States government assistance is the mainstay of the economy. Under terms of the Amended Compact of Free Association, the U.S. is committed to providing US$57.7 million per year in assistance to the Marshall Islands (RMI) through 2013 and then US$62.7 million through 2023, at which time a trust fund, made up of U.S. and RMI contributions, will begin perpetual annual payouts.The United States Army maintains the Ronald Reagan Ballistic Missile Defense Test Site on Kwajalein Atoll. Marshallese landowners receive rent for the base.


To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/8C36C549-51F9-4688-B9E8-3345001191A5%40gmx.ch.


--
Pedro Mascarenhas

Joao Paulo Cota

unread,
Dec 15, 2023, 9:13:07 PM12/15/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
All these countries have special arrangements with neighbouring and friendly countries.
For example, the Vatican is fully surrounded and protected by Italy and even its Papal guard is donated by the Swiss.  So anybody trying to attack them, if at all, then they would need to get through Italian mainland and airspace first... and its 'eternal' unique touristic influx bankrolls its economy.
Monaco is the home for the super rich, it is geared for that purpose. France looks after their defences, and along with Spain, they both look after similar needs of other tiny countries and principalities like San Marino, Leichtenstein, Andorra, etc. All other islands are British protectorates else have special arrangements with the likes of Australia, USA, etc. Their currencies are also linked to the US$.
Their GDP's are amongst the highest in the world due to tax heaven and other similar arrangements.
Hence each of these small nations have their own 'golden basket'. What does Goa have in similar terms?
Also, every tiny country needs a proper godfather.
Whom would an independent Goa have as a godfather nation?
If Goa would had been independent, then India would had been the last country on earth offering it protection. So, it would had been completely vulnerable from the sea. Any other country protecting it would had been pointless, unless it would had been a super power.
Similar to the Taiwan/China scenario, India would had been always salivating to gobble it someday.
The geography of a tiny nation matters a lot if that nation is located on mainland. Israel is a clear example of this, surrounded by enemies one cannot do anything about it. But it has the USA behind it, not because the USA wants to do it, but because the USA is controlled by fellow Jews.
It is not just about defense but also infrastructure. Goa has hardly anything to warrant being an independent nation. Just an airport, a weak and low income tourist industry full of hippies, few manufacturing industries and a bit of iron ore won't be enough to pay the bills. It needs more but there seems to be limited on what it can produce. What can it export to generate big revenues for its coffers? It has advanced a lot now due to India's investment in the state, but it had nothing in 1961, Goa was basically 'barren land'...
Goa being a highly corrupt place, with highly corrupt politicians of almost zero principles,  it does not help the case of an independent country.
One has to be realistic about the case for independence at some point, dreaming about it for Goa is just that, a dream.
It would had never worked, it would never add up.
Joao Paulo Cota

From: 'Bernardo de Sousa' via Goa-Research-Net <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: 15 December 2023 10:44

>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to goa-research-n...@googlegroups.com.

>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to goa-research-n...@googlegroups.com.

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to goa-research-n...@googlegroups.com.

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to goa-research-n...@googlegroups.com.



--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to goa-research-n...@googlegroups.com.

Edgar Valles

unread,
Dec 15, 2023, 9:13:13 PM12/15/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
Singapore is am excellent example...


Aviso de Confidencialidade

Este correio eletrónico, assim como qualquer ficheiro anexo ao mesmo contém informação confidencial e legalmente protegida, exclusivamente dirigida ao destinatário. No caso de haver recebido este correio por erro, requer-se notificar imediatamente deste facto mediante o reenvio à direção eletrónica do remetente e o mesmo deve ser imediatamente apagado; é advertido que qualquer transmissão, cópia ou uso desta informação é proibida; informação protegida pelo sigilo profissional contido no art. 113.º do Estatuto da Ordem dos Advogados da República Portuguesa. Obrigado.

Privacy Warning

This e-mail and any attachments contain privileged and confidential information and legally protected, intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copying or use of information within it is strictly prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error or without authorization, please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and delete the e-mail from your system; information protected by professional secrecy contained in the Statute of the Bar Association of the Portuguese Republic. Thank you in advance 


'Bernardo de Sousa' via Goa-Research-Net <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com> escreveu no dia sexta, 15/12/2023 à(s) 10:45:
To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/8C36C549-51F9-4688-B9E8-3345001191A5%40gmx.ch.

Edgar Valles

unread,
Dec 15, 2023, 9:13:25 PM12/15/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
Yar are absolutely right, John.And we, who live in Diaspora and not in Goa, cannot complain about the past...
In fact, Goans deserve what they have. now.....


Aviso de Confidencialidade

Este correio eletrónico, assim como qualquer ficheiro anexo ao mesmo contém informação confidencial e legalmente protegida, exclusivamente dirigida ao destinatário. No caso de haver recebido este correio por erro, requer-se notificar imediatamente deste facto mediante o reenvio à direção eletrónica do remetente e o mesmo deve ser imediatamente apagado; é advertido que qualquer transmissão, cópia ou uso desta informação é proibida; informação protegida pelo sigilo profissional contido no art. 113.º do Estatuto da Ordem dos Advogados da República Portuguesa. Obrigado.

Privacy Warning

This e-mail and any attachments contain privileged and confidential information and legally protected, intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copying or use of information within it is strictly prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error or without authorization, please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and delete the e-mail from your system; information protected by professional secrecy contained in the Statute of the Bar Association of the Portuguese Republic. Thank you in advance 


To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/0C8B48AD-D4BF-4C72-BEEA-1BB06A9ECF32%40sbcglobal.net.

Pedro Mascarenhas

unread,
Dec 16, 2023, 1:24:10 PM12/16/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com

Singapore total inhabitants – 5.70 million (2019), of which 76% are Chinese, 15% Malays, 6% Indians, others 3%.

Paradise Singapore : The government maintains strict restrictions on the right to peaceful assembly through the Public Order Act, requiring a police permit for any “cause-related” assembly if it is held in a public place, or in a private venue if members of the general public are invited. The definition of what is treated as an assembly is extremely broad and those who fail to obtain the required permits face criminal charges.

Foreign migrant workers are subject to labor rights abuses and exploitation through debts owed to recruitment agents, non-payment of wages, restrictions on movement, confiscation of passports, and sometimes physical and sexual abuse. Foreign women employed as domestic workers are particularly vulnerable to abuse.



Joao Paulo Cota

unread,
Dec 16, 2023, 1:24:48 PM12/16/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
Needless to say that Nauru has one of the highest obesity rates in the world. Precisely due to the fact that inhabitants do not have to... work.
Most small countries that had their independence recently last century are all struggling economically - Africa, Central America, Pacific Ocean, Asia, etc (possibly with the exceptioin of Macau and HK).  Only a few of these nations have some decent industries and good sources of income - like Macau has its casinos and HK its historical trade connections.
Goa would had fallen on the struggling group if it were to go solo after 1961, it does not have what it takes to be an independent nation.
So, my point on independence is that, one has to go beyond the emotional barrier to actually get real and be able to forecast what is in store for the future as an independent, sovereign nation. Working with real figures... and not with just a flag and a national anthem.
JP
From: goa-rese...@googlegroups.com <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of PEDRO MASCARENHAS <pedro...@gmail.com>
Sent: 15 December 2023 14:30

John de Figueiredo

unread,
Dec 16, 2023, 11:08:23 PM12/16/23
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
“Most small countries that had their independence recently last century are struggling economically”.
Then why are they independent?
If only big countries should be independent, why are tiny little countries independent?
Malta (area 122 sq ml) is sitting in the UN Security Council next to US, Russia, and China. Their economy is based on services, primarily shipping, banking, and financial services, professional, scientific, and technical activities, online gaming, and tourism.
I am not an economist and honestly I do not know why they are independent..
John 
Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 16, 2023, at 1:24 PM, Joao Paulo Cota <joao...@hotmail.com> wrote:



Tony Gomes

unread,
Jan 3, 2024, 1:16:28 PM1/3/24
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
Dear Mr. Cota,

I take serious issue with your comment that “Goa would have fallen on the struggling group if it were to go solo after 1961, it does not have what it takes to be an independent nation.”

  Under Portuguese colonialism, it can be said that on the whole, barring some developments in the post-1950 era, such as the granting of mining leases to a few Goan families, Goa, together with other Portuguese colonies remained, at what Edward W. Saïd has referred to as a paradigmatic fossilized provinces with very little if any commercial development. This is not surprising since the whole Iberian Peninsula: Portugal under Salazar, and Spain under Franco remained fossilized in contrast to most other European States under democratic governments.

  Your assertion is a rather arbitrary viewpoint in my view. To put it bluntly: It is possible, what you conclude, but we don’t know the answer.

Prior to 1961, an alternate view led by the Goan lawyer Antonio A. Bruto da Costa had rejected both Portuguese colonialism and Indian nationalism advocating autonomy and possibly independence. (see From Post-Colonial to Neo-Colonial: Perils and Prospects Facing Goan Culture Today, By Anthony Gomes in Goa: A Post-Colonial Society Between Cultures.) One can readily hypothesize that had Salazar given Goa independence, India under Nehru would not have invaded Goa. Or better still if Salazar had to opt for a Plebiscite (similar to East Timor), it is likely that majority of the Goan population of then might have voted for an independent Goa. (similar to the Opinion Poll that rejected integration of Goa into the neighboring state of Maharashtra. Incidentally, I was a medical student then in Goa and campaigned on behalf of United Goans Party against Goa’s integration into Maharashtra.)

The current statistics and information point to the contrary to your statement.

1: Although Goa is a small enclave encompassing an area of 3,702 km2 (1,429 sq miles), it

is rich in mineral resources. Major minerals include iron ore, manganese, ferro-manganese, bauxite and silica sand. Iron and manganese mining were the backbone of Goa’s economy.

2: Fishing, iron exports, industry, and tourism has contributed to the state’s economic well-being.

3: Currently, Goa has the highest per capita income in the whole of India.  

4: It has a High Human Development Index, which measures indicators such as health, education, and standard of living.

Off course one could attribute the rapid almost “mindboggling” commercial development in Goa to the central government in India, which took advantage of Goa’s western heritage and made it into a hotbed of tourism. However, if left to itself, the development might have been  more tempered with better city planning etc. all to the benefit of Goa’s ecology and wellbeing.

 

Anthony Gomes,

Professor of Medicine,

The Mount Sinai Medical Center, NY.

Author of The Sting of Peppercorns

 

Joao Paulo Cota

unread,
Jan 9, 2024, 8:44:14 AM1/9/24
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
Dear Prof Gomes,
As somebody who has lived in various places/countries in four continents - including Goa - I can assure you I know what I am talking about.
Goa was left abandoned by the Portuguese, with minimal infrastructure that appeased the authorities and the public then, and only prospered today due to India's central government money.
However, there is a big price to pay for this modernisation - high corruption, political blackmail and other illnesses inherited from the mainland.
Lack of Freedom of speech being one which hardly anybody speaks about, besides a censored and controlled media.
About your points of argument, please note:
  1. Goa's tiny size and location does warrant the need a godfather nation to protect it, like Singapore and Israel has the USA who will walk the talk if they are attacked. Possibly because the Jews control Uncle Sam and also the US knows it would crumble with the loss of control of Singapore's microchip industry, if it ever falls on Chinese hands. Whom does Goa have as great godfather nation for protection? Tiny and bankrupt Portugal? Corrupt and greedy India waiting to invade 24/7 if Goa was independent? Corrupt and bankrupt Russia? Nobody. One need a rock solid alliance with a super power to survive in this day and age, else the Somali pirates could easily land on Goan beaches and just take over the place. The Goan mineral types are not the big revenue earners that can bankroll a country, they are useful for industries that may create demand in the future. Precious metals and rare earths are what is on demand today. The price of iron ore is lower than 10 years ago. In this day an age with a changing tech scenario, the goalposts keep changing in terms of global demand. Lithium is the new gold, till new battery tech will dictate what the next top metal is going to be. The book 'Goa e as Praças do Norte' has some amazing geological and other maps that documents Goa as a tiny state that has very limited resources.
  2. Fishing is not sustainable at all in Goa, because fisherfolk use now tiny nets that catch the smallest of young fish, so in a few years' time, it will be a very serious problem in waiting. Independence in developing nations means people taking short cuts with almost zero impunity, leave alone lack of training programmes for these people. The size of the catch at fish markets all over Goa can confirm this, totally unacceptable. I had seen it with my own eyes, when asked, the fisherfolk said they had to survive! Please look at almost any African nation and name one single one that is flourishing, its people are happy and have high per capita or HHDI index, when most of them have unique mineral resources that can bankroll huge economies. Tourism is hardly reliable these days with the destruction of Goan beaches and building of concrete jungles and massive domestic tourism that makes Goa one of the filthiest places on earth, at least on the beaches and everywhere they walk on. Building a second international airport is not a measure of prosperity, one needs more than that to sustain this weak industry prone to recession and other never thought factors like Covid. I have got quite bad feedback from tourists who had been there, not from doctored, manicured Tripadvisor feedback. Goa is unfortunately not as beautiful, clean and unspoilt as it has been decades ago.
  3. This high per capita figure is due to India pumping big money into Goa, with lots of it dirty money. Goa is hardly producing anything on its own, what does Goa actually produce to justify this high figure? It is also due to foreign money being sent to Goa by expats which is then used to support the local economy. Somebody from Europe or Middle East sending money back home, constructing a palatial house (thereby employing local workers, etc). It is just statistics, relying on foreign money remittances it is hardly ever a reliable economy backbone of an independent state. Countries like the Philippines can collapse if all workers are sent back home someday, something that can happen if China has its way with its imperialist ambitions disguised as Belt and Road initiative.
  4. The HHDI rating is high due to the above reasons, if Goa was alone since 1961 and left on its own, we would be at the bottom of the table, as what it would had produced would had not generated the high figures needed to prop up the economy.
As I had said earlier, Goa dos not have what it takes to be a nation, in terms of resources, geographical location, political integrity and size.
Goa is struggling to pay the civil service. Imagine now if you had an army, airforce and navy to its salary bill... leave alone machinery.
Sadly, it never had a realistic chance.
We can argue and counter argue on this, but in true honesty, one must be realistic in making a case for independence. It is not just about a new flag and a new national anthem.
It is more complex that both you and me can ever fathom.
Kind regards,
Joao Paulo Cota
From: goa-rese...@googlegroups.com <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Tony Gomes <tong...@gmail.com>
Sent: 03 January 2024 18:01

Nuno Cardoso da Silva

unread,
Jan 9, 2024, 4:17:09 PM1/9/24
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
Dear Sir,
 
Emotions are a poor basis for good thinking.
 
1. Tiny and bankrupt Portugal?
 
Portugal is not tiny - it's as big as Austria or Hungary, bigger than Switzerland, the Netherlands, Belgium, Ireland or Denmark - and definitely not bankrupt, although not rich by European standards.
 
2. Goa dos not have what it takes to be a nation, in terms of resources, geographical location, political integrity and size?
 
The only thing Goa seems not to have is the will to be independent. Lots of countries smaller and poorer than Goa are independent and relatively prosperous. And while I have a soft spot for India and its peoples, I feel that being attached to India has been anything but positive for Goa. It would be unfair to say Goans on their own couldn't manage their problems better than attached to the very problematic India.
 
But that's the Goans problem, not mine. My comments shouldn't be interpreted as an undue interference in other people's affairs. I just have very warm feelings for Goa and all Goans, even those who like to blame my country for all the problems they have...
 
Best regards
 
Nuno Cardoso da Silva
 
 
 
 
Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2024 at 8:25 AM
From: "Joao Paulo Cota" <joao...@hotmail.com>

eugene.correia

unread,
Jan 9, 2024, 4:18:07 PM1/9/24
to Goa-Research-Net
This has been good discussion, as I think of pursuing this Annexation vs Liberation debate if my application for Ph.D is accepted by a Canadian university. I have applied with all documents and await the final decision of the university, which may come towards the end of Feb. This is for Fall semester which begins in Sept.
In the meantime, I will be in Goa from third week of Jan to early June. I hope to devote some time collecting relevant date and bibliography on the issue and a decade prior to 1961, and then post 1961 progress. Viewpoints of knowledgeable experts would be of help. 
I would be thankful if members of this group provide me with bibliography on the subject, though I admit that my lack of knowledge of Portuguese could be a drawback. I believe lot of literature on the Portuguese era exists in Portuguese language, though my emphasis would be on the decade befoe 1961. A bit of history, both cultural, social and political, would be mentioned as I take a "long dive".
I can talk to those who are present in Goa and have been following the issue closely. Names and phone numbers of those who I should consult will be very helpful. I want to use my time in Goa to do some preliminary work, as soon as I hear from the University. It doesn't matter though if I am rejected, but nothing like trying. 
It was my lifelong ambition, and I had approached the late Teotonio de Souza, who volunteered to be my guide. But the Goa University turned me down as it said I should be recommended by the university, with a Letter that i am in the PhD program. But Canadian Universiies didn't recognize MA from Bombay Univeristy.
Hence, the delay. Now that York University is allowing seniors to apply I thought of doing so. I also hope that the university would not charge me student fees, as it's over $5000 per semester, as I was informed by a friend. If this all works out, then I should be busy for the next three years at least.
Anyone in Goa wishing to meet with me, please send me email. I will definitely contact the person.

Eugene Correia

Roland Francis

unread,
Jan 9, 2024, 4:18:29 PM1/9/24
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
Dear JPC, 
Why do you want to shatter dreams?
Ever since the Indian forces marched into Goa, Catholic Goans have been dreaming of a ‘what if’ (Goa was an independent country).
You are now telling us that lacking the discovery of an offshore oil shelf or a gigantic solar system generating energy to neighbouring India, we would have been relegated to an economy of Papua New Guinea less their Australian sponsorship?

Roland, Toronto.

On Jan 9, 2024, at 8:44 AM, Joao Paulo Cota <joao...@hotmail.com> wrote:



Joao Paulo Cota

unread,
Jan 10, 2024, 2:35:35 PM1/10/24
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
Dear Nuno,
I was referring Portugal as tiny in size with context of the likes of US, Russian and India as described as potential 'godfather' nations. In certain spheres in life, size matters. By bankrupt, I had implied the current faltering Portuguese economy and its perennial inability to pay proper pensions, wages, etc. I have not even mentioned the word 'corrupt' considering all these corrupt politicians... 
Would agree that Goa could be independent, but would disagree it would ever work.
When on lives in Goa, one knows what it has and worse, what it hasn't to go solo.
Regards,
Joao Paulo

A picture is sometimes worth a lot of words...




From: 'Nuno Cardoso da Silva' via Goa-Research-Net <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: 09 January 2024 15:01

Joao Paulo Cota

unread,
Jan 10, 2024, 2:35:35 PM1/10/24
to goa-rese...@googlegroups.com
Dear Roland,
Sadly, yes, Goa would need a big golden egg on its basket - like Singapore have their microchips industry, Israel have their advanced tech, the Swiss have their watches/swiss army knives/banking... even Papua New Guinea have huge mineral, oil and gas reserves, making it the 7th growing economy in the world. But poor... due to leadership incompetence.
These Goan dreams are still dreams, impossible to destroy them. But they will always stay as dreams... the time to talk was 1961, too late to cry over spilt milk now.
I am a trained engineer, I work with data and facts.
Goa's economical data in 1961 was never going to add up to make a strong case for independence.
It would never work. India would had been the saviour and swallow it in eventually.
Being of Goan origin, I would prefer Goa to be independent due to its unique identity and culture, but... the sad truth is that it does not have what it takes to be an independent nation.
Regards,
Joao Paulo

From: goa-rese...@googlegroups.com <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Roland Francis <roland....@gmail.com>
Sent: 09 January 2024 16:01
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages