EBL Whats the advantages

[Trevor Pordage]

Hi I have a GM throttlebody on m coach installed by the PO Bobby Moore

i have had a few problems with it a few years back

o2 sensor getting clogged up after running too rich for some reason and

clogged fuel filter casing inadequate fuel delivery

and faulty pump 

other than that all good 

i have just blown up my diff but that is another story . but as i am in australia i will need to get a new diff sent over from applied and as i am shipping heavy stuff i thought i could  add a newv EBL Setup to the order

can some one outline the advantages of the EBL over the stock gm setup

so  can decide if i want to go down that road

and what parts i would need to order 

i believe the system that was installed was sourced thru Turbocity 

[Dave Stragand]

The EBL simply replaces the existing computer. It allows for easier, more precise tuning and better monitoring using the What’s Up Display. Additionally, it has several analog inputs that allow for other items to be used for control/monitoring, like wideband O2. 

I’m sure others will chime in with additional features, but I believe that’s the basics. 

-Dave

1978 Transmode near Pittsburgh

On Sep 12, 2022, at 1:54 AM, Trevor Pordage <trevor....@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi I have a GM throttlebody on m coach installed by the PO Bobby Moore

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[BruceHislop]

The EBL is actually a circuit board which replaces the logic board (containing microprocessor and memory) of the Engine Control Module (ECM).  The ECM used in the TurboCity and Howell EFI kits (GM 1227747 or 7747 for short) was based on electronic technology from the late 80's & early 90's.  It was also designed for production use and not easily field modifiable.

The EBL board uses updated (Flash) technology and user friendly software to allow you to easily make changes to fuel and spark tables and allows you to implement advanced features like Lean Cruise and Deceleration Fuel Cut OFF.

You can buy the circuit board directly from Dynamic EFI and install it into your existing 7747 ECM.  Or better yet, buy a complete ECM with the EBL board already installed.  This lets you keep your existing ECM for a spare.

If you are getting a new final drive from Applied GMC, they should be able to sell you just the EBL upgraded 7747 ECM and include it in the same shipment.

I've been running my EBL since 2010 and I love it!

Read more about the EBL here.  The EBL model for the 7747 is the EBL Flash II:
DynamicEFI.com

Bruce Hislop

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/gmcmh-efi/D97A2B49-535B-4039-8668-3A44E7CC8AFB%40stragand.com.

[Dolph Santorine]

I’ll second Bruce’s assessment. Very happy with the EBL. So much so I’ve added a computer on the dash. 

Dolph Santorine

Do...@DolphSantorine.com

Excuse me for not being my usual wordy and sporadically verbose self. This message is sent from my iPhone.   

No trees were killed in the sending of this message and few long dead dinosaurs were involved. A large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

On Sep 12, 2022, at 7:42 AM, BruceHislop <bhis...@gmail.com> wrote:

 The EBL is actually a circuit board which replaces the logic board (containing microprocessor and memory) of the Engine Control Module (ECM).  The ECM used in the TurboCity and Howell EFI kits (GM 1227747 or 7747 for short) was based on electronic technology from the late 80's & early 90's.  It was also designed for production use and not easily field modifiable.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/gmcmh-efi/8bbfe22d-b62c-abed-6ce2-4278cdd4d8da%40gmail.com.

[Dave Stragand]

On the subject of the EBL...  is the only difference between the Flash and Flash II, that the Flash has a serial port and the Flash II has USB?  Or is there more to it than that?  I have the Flash (not II) unit and wondered if there is any reason to replace it in favor of a Flash II.

[BruceHislop]

Dave,
The Flash II has a different board layout as well.  I haven't compared them side by side, but I'm thinking likely some of the components became obsolete as is common in electronics.  It could be as simple as the package style of one or more components was no longer available.  In any case, it appears that the software and BINs are the same, so I don't believe there are any other differences.

Serial connections are more robust against interference in the mobile environment.  The USB upgrade just makes it easier to connect the laptop since the serial port is just about gone on new computers.

Bruce Hislop

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[Dolph Santorine]

Isn’t that the truth! It was designed in a Cassette era. 

USB is rapidly being replaced by USB-C

So far, I’ve had no interference issues with the serial, and the satin line runs down, across the under the hood and up to the dash. 

It’s water resistant wire. A lot of that stuff is soy based and water goes right through it. 

Dolph Santorine

Do...@DolphSantorine.com

Excuse me for not being my usual wordy and sporadically verbose self. This message is sent from my iPhone.   

No trees were killed in the sending of this message and few long dead dinosaurs were involved. A large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

On Sep 12, 2022, at 10:07 AM, BruceHislop <bhis...@gmail.com> wrote:

 Dave,

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[Bill Van Vlack]

There are some add-ons possible whens using the EBL:.

- WinLog-EBL can be installed on a PC to provide digital gauges, including three trip meters for fuel, miles, and mpg.

(the serial stream can be split using a 'Y' pigtail and two serial/USB cables or by using a PC program to create virtual USB ports. Both WUD and WinLog EBL can be run simultaneously, including datalogs for both.. - you have to shut down WinLog-EBL to flash the WUD. The datalogs can be combined using excel and viewed using WinLogView.)

- I've added a bluetooth transmitter to the EBL serial connector, so no cable(s).

- You can purchase the PC program mentioned above to add virtual USB ports and allow WUD and WinLog-EBL to share the serial stream.

[Gmail Main]

Thanks for all your input

 

If I buy from Applied will this come working out of the box for a 455

And I will just have to replace my ECM

Or will I have to install files etc

 

I assume that as I get to understand the EBL I can add inputs to get more information

Is there any inputs that you would consider a must

 

Regards

 

Trevor Pordage

Mob 0422345522

253 Hemmant Tingalpa Road

Hemmant 4174

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[Bill Van Vlack]

I added a Wide Band O2 sensor and a fuel pressure sender.

Not sure if Applied loads a BIN file before they send; they'd need to know whether you have a 455 or 403. There are some BIN files that work in the Tips and Tweaks section mentioned in the other thread.

[Dave Stragand]

Bill, will adding a wideband sesor allow the EBL to make better "decisions" on mixture control, or is it primarily a sensor that humans will view through the computer to gauge the EBL's effectiveness?

-Dave

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From: gmcm...@googlegroups.com <gmcm...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Bill Van Vlack <bill.va...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2022 6:21 PM
To: GMCMH EFI <gmcm...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: [GMCMH-EFI] EBL Whats the advantages

[James Hupy]

I have installed probably a dozen or thereabouts of Howell systems. Both with and without EBL. I have had trouble with poor electrical connections, O2 sensors, and far and away the most have been fuel pressure issues. When a 455 is stock, it is far easier to dial them in. But when you mess with the cam timing, rocker arms, headers, blocked crossovers, different exhaust systems, big valve heads, etc. then the problems rear their ugly heads. But, systematic changes (one at a time, please) and careful attention to results will go a long way to resolve any problem. That and Randy VanWinkle.

       I have a brand new Quadrajet Holley Sniper with their solid state ignition system that they just introduced. I am going to install it on my  somewhat modified 403 in my 78 Royale with 3:70 final drive. Then we can see how it compares with a 2 barrel EBL system. I suspect that performance will be enhanced a good deal. Don't know about fuel economy.

Jim Hupy 

Salem, Oregon 

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[Bill Van Vlack]

Most folks use the NB for the learn steps and WB for monitoring. According to DynamicEFI, NB learning corrects when the EFI is in closed loop. Most folks use the WB for monitoring I believe. The DynamicEFI info says WB learn can hit other cells that are not reached by closed loop. Maybe someone here has tried that.

[Bill Van Vlack]

Hi Jim,

  Kelvin sent a DataLog to an online tuner and received a 'Cal' file back. Says it dramatically improved performance.

[Keith V]

I would never use a holly sniper. they work ok when they work, but a failure? you're stuck until Holley gets you a new one.

Performance? MAYBE at the top end WOT it's got more, but what fool is pounding on their engine that hard?

Low end is not flow limited

Parts are still available for the GM stuff. Worst case is the computer, but you can still get a stock one and get home.

As far as serial VS USB, you're all wrong. Serial works just fine.  I use it all the time. Both EBL systems put out 5v serial, this is then converted to USB. The only difference serial wise is the new one uses some unused pins to get the serial out the connector.  Otherwise they are the same.

Get a good USB conversion cable, Id just buy on from Dynamic. it's not that expensive

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From: gmcm...@googlegroups.com <gmcm...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Bill Van Vlack <bill.va...@gmail.com>

Sent: Monday, September 12, 2022 7:38 PM

To: GMCMH EFI <gmcm...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [GMCMH-EFI] EBL Whats the advantages

Hi Jim,

  Kelvin sent a DataLog to an online tuner and received a 'Cal' file back. Says it dramatically improved performance.

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 5:36:45 PM UTC-7 Bill Van Vlack wrote:

Most folks use the NB for the learn steps and WB for monitoring. According to DynamicEFI, NB learning corrects when the EFI is in closed loop. Most folks use the WB for monitoring I believe. The DynamicEFI info says WB learn can hit other cells that are not reached by closed loop. Maybe someone here has tried that.

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 5:00:01 PM UTC-7 Dave Stragand wrote:

Bill, will adding a wideband sesor allow the EBL to make better "decisions" on mixture control, or is it primarily a sensor that humans will view through the computer to gauge the EBL's effectiveness?

-Dave

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From: gmcm...@googlegroups.com <gmcm...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Bill Van Vlack <bill.va...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2022 6:21 PM
To: GMCMH EFI <gmcm...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: [GMCMH-EFI] EBL Whats the advantages

I added a Wide Band O2 sensor and a fuel pressure sender.

Not sure if Applied loads a BIN file before they send; they'd need to know whether you have a 455 or 403. There are some BIN files that work in the Tips and Tweaks section mentioned in the other thread.

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[James Hupy]

Your opinion has some merit. GM spent Billions of dollars and several years developing their fuel injection systems. They had some "teething" problems when they first introduced them, particularly with the infamous Cadillac V-4-6-8. That thing was a miserable piece of crap, and that is a kind assessment. But the system evolved, problems were ironed out and they became extremely reliable. Parts are available both through a huge GM dealer network and the aftermarket as well. 

     That being said, Holley is no slouch in the development of EFI. They also learn through their experiences, both good and bad. But, cobbling a 2 barrel throttle body onto a 4 barrel intake manifold just rubs my fur the wrong way. I am an old hot rodder, and creating restrictive intake systems intentionally just gives me the heebee-jeebeies. Perhaps after I wring out this quadrajet Sniper setup, I will have facts to back up my concerns. Time will tell.

Jim Hupy

Salem, Oregon 

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[Keith V]

Like I said, snipers run fine, it's just thats if / when they fail it's harder to get them going again.

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