In life, uncertainty surrounds us. Things that we thought were good for us turn out to be bad for us (and vice versa); people we thought we knew well behave in mysterious ways; the stock market takes a nosedive. Thanks to an inexplicable optimism, most of the time we are fairly cheerful about it all. But we do devote much effort to managing and ameliorating uncertainty. Is it any wonder, then, asks Greg Costikyan, that we have taken this aspect of our lives and transformed it culturally, making a series of elaborate constructs that subject us to uncertainty but in a fictive and nonthreatening way? That is: we create games.
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Just out of curiosity, who else here has played an escape room, and do you agree with this assessment?
I thought the author made an interesting distinction between one-off puzzles vs. more emergent puzzles that consist of smaller interacting elements / mechanics like The Incredible Machine or Lemmings. These tend to have more depth and sometimes even allow for sub-optimal solutions, rather than forcing players to find the one and only solution.
Lisa: I too detected bias regarding performative uncertainty, but still, I think his points are well argued and I kind of agree with him :D
I also thought the citing thing was really weird! Regarding the rest, I think I noticed all of these bias problems but just filtered out what I could actually make use of (new questions to ask when thinking about design problems).
I would disagree, however, with using livestreaming as an example to disprove the claim that uncertainty is needed to hold interest. I think the vicarious watching experience still involves uncertainty, because the appeal there is often through experiencing the game through the streamer. Most young YT fans I know (basically a bunch of my little cousins) aren't watching them to vet a game before purchase but are experiencing something else entirely alongside the player. I would liken it to watching a movie, except it is not really like that either.
Jumping back on the escape room question real quick, I don't have a ton of experience with them, but a few I've seen address the issue of getting stuck on a puzzle by having multiple ways to solve the puzzle, or multiple ways to discover clues. It's not full proof but it seems to buy some leeway. I'd rather hear more from people who have more experience with them.
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There were no real aha moment in the book. But over all I approve of the format. The games and culture chapter feels a little off, but otherwise the analysis feels pretty solid, exploring different examples and structuring it in the sources of information chapter. The last chapter, game design considerations, put all of the knowledge into a useful context, especially the lack of uncertainty part. Some of the uncertainties are pretty known, like randomness, hidden information and ”analysis”, but it was nice to add preformative and player uncertainty. Because normally action games fall flat when you apply “board game values” on them so the other uncertainty adds up nicely.
I just want to add one thing about the quote on p.93 “In general, hidden information increase variety of encounters; in a game with a designed world everything is a surprise when first encountered; in a game with algorithmically generated challenges (such as Poker or a Rouge-like) hidden information ensures that no two sessions are the same.” I agree with it, but its a little far fetched to say that when you have played it once, the game no longer contains any hidden information. Because theres to much information in the game for any player to store all of it (maybe some important parts). So although the informations have been reviled its still partially hidden because of the player's limited memory capacity. Mostly a comment on the note that mario contain no uncertainty except performative. I would also say that mario contains some portions of emergent gameplay which adds uncertainty (especially when you lose yoshi and runs after him in mario world). I just watched this talk about possibility spaces GDC 2015 Meaningful Choice in Game Level Design by Matthias Worch (Unreal 2, Dead Space 2). I'm not sure if possibility spaces are a different kind of uncertainty or just something in between random, hidden information or player uncertainty. Its also in the talk that players wants AIs to be simple, because they become more readable which is a good thing when a lot of different components add up. Its not a “flaw” like the author seems to put it.
Lisa Brown, Bias: yes, he seem to likes analytic games a lot more...
Format: I kinda like the format. First taking the examples, almost as in a investigation. Exploring different games and then summarize the findings in the chapter after. The analyze chapter might have been to long, but when you eventually get to the “sources of uncertainty”-chapter most of the sources are almost self explanatory.
Games grow old very fast: Yes, its a problem. Tbh as a designer I almost feel like the safest way to store games are in paper formate. It might require some time to implement them again, but at least all of the information are there and available. Its kind of a joke, but sadly not as far from the truth as I would like it to be. It not exactly news thats its hard to play old games, like c64 and nes, but there are ways. Its strange that games 3 years old should be hard to play, hopefully some kind of backward compatibility will be invented for android and iphones, and facebook games.
John Y, Escape rooms: I have not tried one but I expect them to play like adventure games. In adventure games I have experienced the “read the designer”-problem. But the experience should be in escape the room in a team environment, with time contains and I really like the idea of the hint system. Also I don't think the solver's uncertainty really are a separate uncertainty. It feels like hidden information or analytic. I really like the idea that puzzles are a frozen state in a possible state machine (its kind of mentioned in the book). Just that the puzzle have a predetermined solution while analytic uncertainty don't necessary have a satisfying solution. Would it be possible to make a system that create interesting puzzle like structures?
Also, would be cool to try escape the room in VR, fits the constrained environment.
Christian Selbrede, Genres and uncertainty: How do you mean that genre are more basic(?) then ex uncertainties. I think of genres as a (loosely defined) collection of common game mechanics. Uncertainty are a byproduct of mechanics. So if I would put them in a hierarchy it would be mechanics – uncertainties – genres.
I would say that uncertainty is kind of a dynamic compared to the MDA framework. Heres a link to the article and a summery by extra credits. Its not crucial for the discussion but if you haven't heard about it might be interesting :)
unfolding uncertainty from external sources like wiki, forums and streams: I think that uncertainty adds a kind challenge to the game. As players we tend to do a lot of things to master games, some more competitive and focused then others. Just because players strive to reduce uncertainty doesn't mean that it totally disappear from the game. For example a game like dota. You can look up information on different builds, reducing the analytic uncertainty, but you will still have performative, hidden information, and player uncertainty left in the game. I guess you had single player games in mind, well I would say that most of them also would have other uncertainties left. I actually played Her story this weekend and I think thats a game which probably wouldn't be very interesting to play when you have seen a playthrough of it. But the games mentioned in the book, like mario, doom, civilization, rough-like, most of them continue to be interesting.
The other things you mentioned are also interesting, but I can come up with any answers right now, I will have to think about it :)
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"People watching a game are more than just viewers: part of them participates in the game they are watching. We can see this happen when looking closely at the public that – for instance – is enjoying a football game or a boxing match. Gadamer states that to appreciate a work of art is likewise an active event, an act or a being in-play with the work, an act that one’s consciousness can surrender to and participate in. Full participation requires immersion, reduces and enhances perception to a point that it cannot be fully anticipated or controlled by the individual consciousness."
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