Getting clean

[will.re...@gmail.com]

Hi folks,

I am planning to go in mid June to kick Alcohol and Valium, and weed, and everything else I am hooked on. 

However, I am on a lot of antidepressants and my psychiatrist does not think I have enough time to get off them before I go, as the side effects are pretty bad. What would happen if i have a depressive episode while I am there? It is a strong possibility given I will be trying to kick my habits!

My biggest concern is what happens when I get back. I work as a teacher, and have a job to come back to after the Temple.How have other people managed to stay clean when you get back home?

[Kieran Conway]

Hi

Sorry I did not see your name. My name is Kieran I am currently at Wat Tham Krabok now so I will pose your question to the intake nun regards the antidepressants. From my own experience I was taking benzo and antidepressants and did a short UK detox before I came to Wat Tham Krabok and as part of this I stopped the antidepressants at the same time as Methadone, Crack and Benzos. I found it to be liberating as when I began the detox here the stress and extream anxiety I had invisaged was just not present.  

I can't speak to what your reaction to coming off them will do and your Dr is much better placed to do this. For me it was more anxiety based and I do feel anxiety and did in detox here but it was and is now no where near the level I felt in England. The stress is just non existent here.

I can only project as to how I will stay clean if I return to England and it would for sure include a Buddhist Sangha (friendships) again my experience. All other attempts at getting clean for me fell way short as I did not attempt at all to build a spiritual foundation and be around people who are up lifting with regards to practice. I think the obvious often is missed when mired in addiction but when I became clean I was better able to reflect on how I gravitated towards people who where struggling themselves with addiction. I am so clear now that I have to be around people I aspire to be like ya know. I place much more worth in regards to being mindful of old behaviours and attitudes as I feel I now have opertunity for real change.

I suppose all I personally can say is it is 100% possible to do detox here and to be clean far beyond it because I see it everyday and have no reason to doubt that when these beautiful people around me here will continue to be clean when or if they return home. In each moment it will be up to you. Once you have been here the tools or practice learned will help so much afterwords and the great thing is if things become difficult as long as it's before you relapse you can come back for a few months to further cement the practice. Sorry I am not talking about a further detox as it's only possible to do it once here and if I relapse I can never return to Wat Tham Krabok but if I have presence of mind to notice my own mind or behaviours changing towards drugs or alcohol I can return here prior to using them to do further work ya know. 

I am sure you will get more replies that may be much more helpful as far as your direct questions. I would say there is no chance in this world that you found this place by accident and considering coming here for detox in my view gives you the best chance of getting and staying clean. I would say after considering the depression and other issues definitely come. Again I cant answer yet wether it's a good idea with what you have said as I know the website mentions restraint around mental health for obvious reasons. 

I will ask your questions later today or tomorrow morning and reply again on this thread.

I would also add that the program here is extendable beyond detox and also the ideology and teaching lends it's self perfectly for recovery and I honestly have been given my life back by coming here maybe sounds like like a sound bite but it's the truth.

I wish you well and if you do make it in June I will still be here so it would be awesome to be a part of your journey for sure.

Kieran...

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note  9 S martphone.

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INDEPENDENT information can be found at http://www.thamkrabok.net
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[Will Dove]

Hi Kieran,

My name is Will. Thanks for your long, informative, and supportive e-mail. I missed work yesterday as I had not slept since Sunday and finally fell asleep at 5, woke at 8 so had to message my boss to say I was going to be late. Then I tried to stand and was all over the place! couldn't make it to the shower!. I am coming of the antidepressants and the Valium, and I don't know which is fucking me up more. I took some Valium last night and got six hours sleep, and some more this morning, so a bit spaced out! at work!. not good! 

I applied on Monday, and want to arrive the 17th June, so I hope you are still there, as I will need a bit of support. I am from the UK too, from Scotland, but have lived in China the last 10 years, and traveled a lot in Asia, so know what to expect. It is just getting off this fucking shit before I come that is a problem. No rehab here in China. I f I were to apply I would lose my work visa, so need to get clean by myself. 

Thanks again for the message! see you in June!

best regards,

Will

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[Kieran Conway]

Hi again Will,

I spoke to a monk here and he suggested getting in touch via the website about your questions and they can best advise you. 

But yes I understand about China I have a friend who lives there for many years also teaching. 

Yes I will be here at then for sure. It is a formal process when you arrive and you will need to goto the office and then into the detox section. They will explain all this I am sure but just to say I felt very reasured when I arrived and they are very well versed here. 

I would bring a couple of books to read and also encourage you to make a journal as I found it helpful only if to track my thoughts and feeling during the day. 

I feel excited for you as I feel very strongly about the possibilities after detox here. Addiction seeps into every aspect of life and I found the detox and the program gave me time to let go of the old ideas around using and work on more spiritual aspects in life. 

I think the main lesson was to take refuge fully here because at points I did real against the idea of staying more long term but due to support I got here I not want to stay and do further work in recovery.

Kieran

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[Kieran Conway]

Hi again 

Sorry I am from a place near Leed and Manchester.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note  9 S martphone.

-------- Original message --------

From: Will Dove <will.re...@gmail.com>

Date: 09/05/2019 6:25 am (GMT+07:00)

To: friends-of-tham...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [FOTM:3534] Getting clean

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[Will Dove]

Thanks Kieran,

I applied on Monday and was given advice on what I need to get off before I can come. Tried to drop my meds too quickly in excitement at the prospect of coming and getting clean for the first time in my Adult life, but totally crashed yesterday from detoxing; bouncing off the walls and with crazy brain zaps, and had to take the day off work. Need to pace mt detox before I come a bit better I think. 

Thanks for all the advice!

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[Kieran Conway]

Hi will 

That's amazing news re application. Yes take time and be kind to your self as long as your off them by the time you get here it's ok right. I think the period before detox is very difficult and often dangerous so keep your witts about you ok and stay safe. Coming off benzo can cause sezures aswell so keep this in mind ok. I am not a Dr and only talk from my own expirience but if your done now and want a clean life try to do it in a safe way. 

I wish you all the best just be nice to your self not decision has been made and you have a date so try do a possible tapper or something like this. Prior to my UK detox I taopered the antidepressants and like you I had diazipam as a way to help with anxiety and I reduced them slowly which worked. I don't know your full situation but be careful as I said this period for any person with a date is very hard the mind can play tricks about one last go or take more as it's last time all these are addiction trying to keep control ya know. Anyway I am sure your full aware of this stuff don't wish to seem patronising as it's not I just worry for you as I know how my mind was playing such games with me as my date came closer.

I don't mind you keeping me up to date and let me know how your getting on Will for sure.

Peace man Kieran...

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[Will Dove]

Hi Kieran,

Thanks for that, and for your support. And congratulations on your decision to be ordained! That is a BIG decision, and I wish you all the best with that.

You are right about coming off Benzos. I have been on a high dose for the last year and getting off is already causing problems! I just need to push through and not try and get off too quickly. I am getting confused so much just now as I drop my dose. I thought today was Saturday, and would still be in bed and not at work if my antidepressants didn't have the days of the week on them! I was a bit surprised this morning when I went to take them and saw that it was Friday and I had to come to work, (albeit a little late). 

Anyway, it will be worth it if I can get clean and arrive on the 17th June as planned. Then a whole Summer, to reset body and mind.

All the best,

Will

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[Will Dove]

Hi Kieran,

I reduced my Valium again on Sunday, and yesterday was the worst withdrawals I have had! Absolutely awful. They seem to be getting worse the lower I go. I had to leave work at lunchtime as I was getting  such bad brain zaps and shakes! Still, not much more to go and I will be clean. Going to try and reduce them again this coming weekend. I have given all my meds to my boss so I can't take more than my planned reduction schedule, as yesterday I would have swallowed a bunch to stop the pain!

Still, I am on track to be clean in time for the 17th June, and I got an e-mail from Mae Shee Rambhai yesterday saying I can go and see the High Monk who does admissions, which is great news! I am getting so much support, and can't wait to get clean and heal my body and mind!

All the best,

Will 

(and happy Vesak day for yesterday!)

[Kieran Conway]

Hi Will

That's great to hear I also suffered the same way with shakes when I reduced and for me it was so important to stick to a realistic plan for reduction. Great news your able to see the High Monk and seems even though it's a struggle for you that your still able to see the possitive side of what your doing. Keep in mind when in struggle that this is the begining of the end of all the crap that using brings to your life and the feeling of desperation each day can and will stop. 

You can do this man keep up the awesome work as this is the foundations for you so making them strong is a very good way. Detox will be the next stage of your journey and I feel glad to have contact with you at this time.

K

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[Will Dove]

Hi Kieran,

Sorry to keep bothering you with questions. I have just booked my flight and will arrive on the morning of the 17th June. I am now freaking out that the high monk in charge of admissions won't allow me in. My friend who went to the Monastery three years ago advised me to be as polite and respectful as possible. However, I am not sure of the proper protocol for addressing a high monk, or what I should do when I am brought before him. If you could give me any pointers on what I should do, say and act I would be most grateful!

All the best,

Will.

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[James butler]

Just be yourself, no masks..

Good luck on your journey right thinking and right action in all circumstances

Cheers.

Seamus.

Sent from my iPhone

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[Kieran Conway]

Hi will

Don't worry too much you will be accompanied by a nun Katisha and she will explain everything. Just as you mention be curious and honest is great. As soon as you arrive the reception will call the nun to help you. Remember to Y people and sawadee cup is hello so you can at least say hello you know. They know English aswell but if you can say hello it shows good respect I feel. I think you will know how to Y as your in China so no need to explain etc. 

I think you are doing great and will be recieved well by the High Monk and Katisha will guide you also. Stick to the packing list on the website aswell.

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[Will Dove]

Thanks James and Kieran,

Very reassuring messages! I guess I am just a bit paranoid! Anxiety issues!

See you on the other side!

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[Will Dove]

Hi Kieran,

Well, it has been truly awful, but with ten days to go I am off Valium and Antidepressants. Tapering off started OK, but then I really started struggling as I got on a lower dose. A kindly intervention by my boss was needed, and she came and cleaned my apartment of all drugs, and has been handing them out to me every day according to an agreed program to get me clean. I just need to stop drinking now. My withdrawals are still really bad just now, and my craving is through the roof, and I just can't wait to get there. I can't live like this and never want to ever again.

Thanks for all your support and advice. See you a week on Monday!

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[Vince Cullen]

Keep going, Will... we love you.

Whether you travel to Thailand or stay at home, the decision to abandon alcohol and other drugs is the best choice you will ever make. The only regret that you might have is "why didn't I do it earlier!". But any such regret is soon dissolved in the ocean of gratitude and joy (Mudita) at being free from life-limiting intoxication.

May you recover all of your life's possibilities and potentiality that has been stolen from you by addictions.

With much Metta and Mudita,

Vince Cullen

On Thu, 6 Jun 2019 at 08:05, Will Dove <will.re...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Kieran,

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[Will Dove]

Thank you Vince, and thanks for all the no you sent me.

I have especially enjoyed ‘from Hungry ghost to Human being’. I have read through it a few times and it gives me hope. I was particularly interested in the example sajja. I am fully committed to everything in it, but don’t think I am ready to forgive myself just yet. As you say, why didn’t I do it earlier? I screwed up my whole life, and many other lives by my actions. How can I forgive myself for that? 

Anyway, I will be there a week on Monday, and hope that I am ready for that step by the time I leave.

I appreciate all the support so many people have given me to get me to this point, and at least I am now only focused on what comes next, and less so on my past. 

Thank you!

All the best, Will.

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[Will Dove]

No= support

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HUNGRY GHOST RETREAT information can be found at http://www.HungryGhostRetreats.org

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[Kieran Conway]

Hi Will

That is truly amazing and sounds to me like you have and are doing exactly what is needed to form a steady base to build from. I can tell that you are for sure a warrior and to be honest this spirit will be one of the parts that can assure you smash it when you get here. Keep going and remember to take refuge when times are difficult. The body knows exactly how to deal with the tapering and eventual withdrawal when you are safe in the detox here. 

Always remember these initial efforts and never forget your intention from the start when you first made contact if you know what I mean.

In my case when I was in England I had to take refuge in a Buddhist way daily to help me fulfill my intention which was to get and stay clear of all mind and mood altering drugs. Vince helped me so much in my difficult times and this email system is surly an ally and can bring much support. We have been in the very same footsteps as you are right now and I have only been here 90 days so cannot yet give much of an I did it view but I can say and fully commit to saying every journey starts with 1 step and the best first step I have taken in my life was through the gates of Wat Tham Krabok and I will never forget the support I have been give through this process. 

I have also learned a great lesson which is only I could have done it no one was able to do it for me so I urge you as you are checking in here so to speak try to remember firstly to set your intention as you have already said a few times is to detox and never re tread past steps as far as alcohol drugs etc and second you are going to do this yourself with much support. 

Love you Will and I have and will continue to send metta and heaps of compassion in aid of this triumphant time in your life. You seem to have mastered stage one recognition and stage two set intention but take action and meet this thing head on. This is a truly amazing thing you are doing and to quote someone I both admire and love very much "doing this is the most loving thing you could ever do for yourself" also for your familiy and everyone you encounter moving forward.

I may be out of Thailand when you arrive doing my visa but I should for sure be back before you leave and can maybe meet with you. 

Take very good care of yourself in the run up to this thing Will many don't make it and often meet with major disaster in these times such as oh one last bender and all that so stay safe my friend and I can promise you that you will not regret coming here and taking the leap of faith.

Love and metta K...

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