Where to indicate transitivity?

[B Kh]

I am creating a learner's dictionary and would like to have the option to indicate that a verb is transitive or intransitive.

One option that I know how to do is create a sub-category under "verb".

But talking with the custom SIL chatbots it is telling me that I should edit the verb part of speech to add a new feature to the verb. Currently the only feature is "Inflectable features" and transitivity is not that. So it tells me to add a new type of feature. But I don't see any way to do that. I have checked the "Show Hidden Fields" option. But this is all I see:

The blue down arrow doesn't give any options to add features:

If it was possible to add more features, I would expect something like a three dot menu, but I see none.

I am using 9.2.10.1862

If there is some better way to show transitivity, please let me know. I realize I could put it in the definition. Or create a whole verb sub-type.

[Beth-docs Bryson]

The chatbots are very new and we are still testing which things they get right or wrong.  Some of their answers need to be taken with a grain of salt, or as a suggestion for where to do more investigating.

Inflection features typically have more to do with using the automatic parsers, rather than with what is displayed in the dictionary.  It is possible to display inflection features, but the options for configuring them are not as well developed as some other things.

As you note, there are many possibilities, and a custom field is one option.  But I think in your case the best option is to use a subcategory.  And these are already built in to FLEx as available subcategories.

When you go to add a new category and you get the Category Catalog, some of the nodes have a + sign.  If you click on that, you can see the subcategories:

If you add the "Intransitive verb" and "Transitive verb" categories, that will be an easy way for you to mark it in the FLEx project and for it to show in your formatted dictionary entry.

-Beth

--
"FLEx list" messages are public. Only members can post.
flex_d...@sil.org
http://groups.google.com/group/flex-list.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "FLEx list" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to flex-list+...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/flex-list/c0c69774-c4dd-4a21-aeae-e801774753b8n%40googlegroups.com.

[B Kh]

Thank you for such a fast and thorough reply!

I will go with sub-categories.

Honestly the chat bots are frequently, shockingly good. So it kind of sticks out when they are stubbornly wrong, lol. I'm sure they have saved me a dozen or more messages in this group.

Thanks again

[B Kh]

A followup question if I may…

In Sinhala (and many Indic languages) some verbs are know as "Dative-subject" verbs. This is an essential bit of knowledge that a learner especially needs to know about a verb. Keeping in mind that there may be verbs that are both "Dative-subject" and have transitivity, what is the best way to handle this in FLEx? Should I just have a verb sub-category for every possible permutation? It seems like this really is a second axis to account for. And I'd prefer that this information was in more than just the manually written definition field so I am able to work with it in different ways. 

If subcategories for all the permutations is a bad idea and I cant add more verb features (it's not an inflection feature) do I just have to manually put it in the definition and maybe use tags to categorize the verbs?

[Beth-docs Bryson]

A lot depends on (a) how many combinations there are and (b) what you want to do with it.

 - Making more subcategories is certainly one option, and is good if there aren't too many.

 - If you want to make a distinction between the "two axes" you mention (so that you could filter on each one separately, for instance), it could be possible to make a custom field for one axis.  You could make it a list field, and set up a Custom List with just the values that you want to be available to that field.  You would do this at the Sense level.

 - If you want to use features, you can use Inflection Features even if the property is not strictly "inflectional".  The name is more specific than it should be--those features are really for grammatical information of all kinds, in contrast to "phonological features".  Here's a picture of part of the Inflection Feature Catalog:

There are many built-in features available, and you can create your own.  But working with these will be a little more tricky.  It is possible to display them in the dictionary, and see them in the Browse view, and filter or Bulk Edit them, but there are a lot of little fiddly things about all of these operations--these paths are not as well-trodden as other ones.

Earlier you were trying to add Inflection Features to a Category.  You were in the right place, and looking for the "three dots menu" was the right instinct.  For me, when my window was too narrow horizontally, I couldn't see the three dots.  When I stretched it to the right, then they appeared, as long as I had clicked on that field and the blue triangle was visible.

-Beth

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/flex-list/33989299-36e7-41f0-9f2f-d59cb5394914n%40googlegroups.com.

[B Kh]

Thank you so much. It does seems like this is a complicated issue and that it could be handled in different ways, without a clear "right way".

In that case, let me re-frame the question… Which method would be the best to use now so that at a point in the future I could easily reorganize. For example, I assume the worst method would be to just manually stick it in the definition. My guess is the best way for now would be to create sub items under "verb," that way even if I ended up with too many, at least it would allow me to more easily bulk edit later. Does that make sense. 

[Kevin Warfel]

Consider the idea of using a custom field for the present. That would allow filtering, sorting, etc. as you work. Then when you decide how you prefer to handle it in the long term, you could use bulk edit to make the change. Subcategories might serve the same purpose, but switching to a different solution at some point in the future seems to me like it would be more cumbersome (but maybe I'm wrong, as I haven't tried it).

Kevin

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/flex-list/f614b6e0-8ce8-4c8c-a4d5-efa71a568e96n%40googlegroups.com.