Dorian or Aeolian or both?

Ask for the old paths, where is the good way

For ask now of the days that are past...

Give ear, all ye inhabitants of the land.

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Peter Schinske

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Apr 10, 2026, 9:32:46 PM (13 days ago) Apr 10

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Hi,

I'm no lawyer, but I looked into this a little bit ago. Here is the clearest explanation of US copyright law I have seen: https://guides.library.cornell.edu/copyright/publicdomain

They link to a useful FAQ here: https://web.archive.org/web/20260313002843/http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/renewals.html

As of 2026, any works before 1931 are out of copyright, as it's been more than 95 years (the longest possible copyright length). Before 1964, copyrights needed to be renewed manually at the Library of Congress Copyright Office in their 28th year, and so this rarely happened. The records of those copyright renewals are online, and show no listings under "Sacred Harp", "Original Sacred Harp, "Denson", etc.

The Denson book has always been unique with its tune copyrights, in that they have always been handed over to the Publishing Company. That's why e.g. 411 Morning Prayer says "Copyright 1936 Sacred Harp Publishing Company" and not "Copyright 1936 T. J. Denson." So the copyright renewals, if they existed, would be easily findable.

All this means I'm fairly certain the 1936 and 1960 Denson editions are out of copyright. After 1964, copyrights were automatically renewed, so the 1966 edition will not be public domain until 2061.

You'd want to be careful to copy an old version of the tune, from e.g. the scans of the 1911 James book on IMSLP (https://imslp.org/wiki/The_Sacred_Harp_(Various)). Changes have crept in over the years; the alto for 48t Devotion had a few notes changed in 1966. You can see the original alto in the Christian Harmony.

I'm second guessing myself about the raised sixths in Detroit. I'm pretty sure we do the first one, but IDK about the second.

Hope this helps,

Peter Schinske

Leslie Booher

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Apr 10, 2026, 11:06:56 PM (13 days ago) Apr 10

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Isn't the copyright on music 60 yrs?

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Robert Vaughn

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Apr 10, 2026, 11:24:34 PM (13 days ago) Apr 10

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Peter, I would wonder whether renewing those songs (such as © 1936) Could be considered as included in renewing the copyright of the book in later years -- or, if the Publishing Company assumed that it was included. Certainly they did not bother to update the date.

Sing On,

Robert Vaughn

Mount Enterprise, TX

Ask for the old paths, where is the good way

For ask now of the days that are past...

Give ear, all ye inhabitants of the land.

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Jim Pfau

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Apr 10, 2026, 11:24:39 PM (13 days ago) Apr 10

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It is not 60 years. Peter's description is good.

Here's a reasonably good summary of U.S. copyright terms: https://guides.library.cornell.edu/copyright/publicdomain

(FYI, I am a (now-retired) lawyer, but copyright was never a focus of my practice.)

Jim Pfau

Saint Paul, MN

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Anne Gilliland

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Apr 11, 2026, 6:25:04 AM (12 days ago) Apr 11

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I'm going to wade here to say a few more things about copyright notice (the copyright statement with the (c) symbol, rights holder, and the date) and the public domain. I am a lawyer who specializes in copyright, but I am not giving formal legal advice to anyone here or forming an attorney/client relationship. I'm also not making a final statement on the copyright status of DETROIT or any other material in any edition of the Sacred Harp or any other text.

As others have pointed out, If you're working a lot with retrospective copyright determinations, Cornell University's chart on Copyright Term and the Public Domain is an essential resource. Cornell staff update it at least annually as the public domain grows and more often when the law changes. Note that it is most useful for works first published in the United States as texts, and it doesn't attempt to identify every turn and twist of international copyright law.

When using the chart, it’s important to remember that unpublished retrospective works have different copyright terms from published works and that works first published abroad often have different--and often longer--U.S copyright terms. That said, works first published or first registered in the U.S. before 1931 are in the public domain as of today. That date will change with the new year, absent a change in the statute.

If you keep reading down the section of the chart titled "Works Registered or First Published in the U.S.," you'll see that the rules for U.S. copyright terms from 1931 to 2002 are kind of a mess. During that period, we had a series of shifting requirements about copyright notice, initial registration, and registration renewal.

Mid-twentieth century copyright determinations can be difficult, because, on top of the changing rules, it is often challenging to track whether first publication included notice and because many of the Copyright Office's registration and renewal records are less than ideal. John Mark Ockerbloom at the University of Pennsylvania has a comprehensive site on accessing and using the best versions of these documents: Copyright Registration and Renewal Records. Another post in this thread links to some of the FAQs on John’s site.

Currently in the U.S. neither notice nor registration are required to form a valid copyright. Consequently, the lack of notice doesn't--by itself--mean that a work is in the public domain. You'll need to look at other factors, too. As others have noted, the Sacred Harp and other hymnals and tune books are made up of many works by many creators, including texts, tunes, arrangements, fonts, supplementary material, and the compilation itself. Some publishers acquire the copyrights to all materials that make up the work; others hold a license only.

--Anne Gilliland

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Robert Vaughn

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Apr 11, 2026, 10:39:56 AM (12 days ago) Apr 11

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Anne, Jim, et al.

So, I am understanding correctly -- using 411 Morning Prayer as an example -- that copyright renewal would be required for any specific work written in 1936. That is, when The Original Sacred Harp as a book was copyrighted in 1960 (within 28 years) did that cover all copyrighted works in it, or would Morning Prayer (and each individual copyrighted song) need a specific application to the Copyright Office for copyright? The fact that the Publishing Company prints "Copyright 1936 Sacred Harp Publishing Company" at the bottom of Morning Prayer implies to me that they think it is under copyright. Or are they just providing historical information?

Thanks.

Sing on,

Robert Vaughn

Mount Enterprise, TX

Ask for the old paths, where is the good way

For ask now of the days that are past...

Give ear, all ye inhabitants of the land.

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Anne Gilliland

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Apr 11, 2026, 6:35:17 PM (12 days ago) Apr 11

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Robert, I'm going to give a very lawyerly vague answer to your question as best I can, given that I don't own a copy of the 1960 Original Sacred Harp. In fact, the answer would be vague even if I owned a copy. Often, compilations like hymnals and shape note books are collective works that are made up of a number of works with various copyright statuses. The collective work has a copyright, and the various works that make up the compilation may have copyrights as well. Those copyrights may be of various durations or held by someone other than the compiler. Other works in the compilation may be in the public domain.

The Copyright Office has a circular on Multiple Works that discusses registration of the collective work vs. the individual works and lays out the limited situations where the registration of a collective work also covers registration of the individual works. The circular is written for the present day; you might need to do some more research to confirm the Office's practice in the past and exactly how it applied to renewals.

I'll be glad to talk more about this, but it would probably be best to take more conversation off the list in case others are ready to move on.

--Anne

Robert Vaughn

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Apr 11, 2026, 10:20:34 PM (12 days ago) Apr 11

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Anne, thanks. This is mostly just a curiosity to me, though I would like to understand it. I don't suppose it has much practical value -- unless perhaps there is someone out there who wants to do a revision of a 1936 copyrighted song and would need to be clear on whether it is actually under copyright. As far as the 1960 book, all I can say is that the cover page says it is copyright by the Sacred Harp Publishing Company. Interestingly, Paine Denson was a lawyer. I have no idea whether he had any expertise in copyright law.

Thank again.

Sing On,

Robert Vaughn

Mount Enterprise, TX

Ask for the old paths, where is the good way

For ask now of the days that are past...