Constructive thinking vs dismissive thinking

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Cosmin Visan

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May 27, 2019, 6:19:08 PM5/27/19
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I see that the majority way of thinking of people is the dismissive kind. Tell them "there is telepathy" and they will say "no there isn't!". The problem with this attitude is that it is end of story. How do this people that dismiss everything expect progress to be made ? They say: "Let the scientists prove telepathy!", put if a scientist tries to actually do an experiment, they come and say again: "Stop doing the experiment, telepathy doesn't exist!". So how is progress to be made if they create an infinite loop of denial? Very few people (including myself) take the constructive attitude: "Ok, here is an interesting phenomenon. How it might work?".

Why do people waste their lives playing the "smart skeptic" card dismissing everything instead of actually doing something about trying to find an explanation ? How is an explanation to be found if they reject from the very start the phenomenon ? They say: "Oh, but we are not rejecting it, we are actually encourage scientists to prove it!". Ok, but how are scientists to prove it, if a theoretical framework is not laid down first ? In order to actually build an experiment, you need to know what you want to experiment with in the first place. But if you reject from the very start any attempt at hypothesis formulation, how is the experiment to be designed ?

Lawrence Crowell

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May 27, 2019, 7:09:28 PM5/27/19
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On Monday, May 27, 2019 at 5:19:08 PM UTC-5, Cosmin Visan wrote:
I see that the majority way of thinking of people is the dismissive kind. Tell them "there is telepathy" and they will say "no there isn't!". The problem with this attitude is that it is end of story. How do this people that dismiss everything expect progress to be made ? They say: "Let the scientists prove telepathy!", put if a scientist tries to actually do an experiment, they come and say again: "Stop doing the experiment, telepathy doesn't exist!". So how is progress to be made if they create an infinite loop of denial? Very few people (including myself) take the constructive attitude: "Ok, here is an interesting phenomenon. How it might work?".

Why do people waste their lives playing the "smart skeptic" card dismissing everything instead of actually doing something about trying to find an explanation ? How is an explanation to be found if they reject from the very start the phenomenon ? They say: "Oh, but we are not rejecting it, we are actually encourage scientists to prove it!". Ok, but how are scientists to prove it, if a theoretical framework is not laid down first ? In order to actually build an experiment, you need to know what you want to experiment with in the first place. But if you reject from the very start any attempt at hypothesis formulation, how is the experiment to be designed ?

Without raising question then the world is captured by every two bit humbug. Sadly we are in an age where a growing number of know-nothings are assuming dominance, and some of these people are narcissists and sociopaths. Your appeal here is another case of special pleading that is so common with people who advance various forms of balderdash. Maybe these guys put it better than I do


You want to advance all your rubbish and do not want anyone to question. That is typical of people like you. You sir are indeed a humbug.

LC

Cosmin Visan

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May 28, 2019, 2:48:58 AM5/28/19
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See ? Exactly what I was telling. You dismiss from the start something, without giving the least amount of thought. Why do you live on this planet if all that you know is to bring negativity ? Why don't you kill yourself ?

Philip Thrift

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May 28, 2019, 4:24:18 AM5/28/19
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I do know that larger configurations of matter have been observed to be quantumly "entangled".

On Monday, May 27, 2019 at 5:19:08 PM UTC-5, Cosmin Visan wrote:

Quentin Anciaux

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May 28, 2019, 5:09:00 AM5/28/19
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Le mar. 28 mai 2019 à 08:48, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> a écrit :
See ? Exactly what I was telling. You dismiss from the start something, without giving the least amount of thought. Why do you live on this planet if all that you know is to bring negativity ? Why don't you kill yourself ?

So in your worldview, insulting people, asking them to kill themselve , not questioning yourself, to brag like you do are positive things ? welcome in 1984, I like the Newspeak.

Quentin

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Cosmin Visan

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May 28, 2019, 5:37:47 AM5/28/19
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If a person lives only to make negative comments about everything, then yes, it is a legit question to ask what they live for. In that case, suicide is a better alternative. I question myself all the time. You are the ones that don't question yourselves, believing from the start that everything is matter.

Cosmin Visan

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May 28, 2019, 5:39:12 AM5/28/19
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"Computer telepathy" is a meaningless phrase. Like saying that you have a picture with water on your computer screen that will end your thirst.

Philip Thrift

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May 28, 2019, 5:50:39 AM5/28/19
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It's computer-assisted telepathy.

And you demonstrate the 100% pure dogmatic absolutism you say others possess.

@philipthrift

Cosmin Visan

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May 28, 2019, 6:07:14 AM5/28/19
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How does a computer assist me in making a telepathy with an alien at the other end of galaxy ?

Also, what does "dogmatic absolutism" mean ?

Bruno Marchal

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May 28, 2019, 6:52:27 AM5/28/19
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On 28 May 2019, at 00:19, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

I see that the majority way of thinking of people is the dismissive kind. Tell them "there is telepathy" and they will say "no there isn't!”.


I think we don’t say that. We say only that there is no evidences. The one list of link you gave dod not provide evidences, Imo.




The problem with this attitude is that it is end of story. How do this people that dismiss everything expect progress to be made ? They say: "Let the scientists prove telepathy!", put if a scientist tries to actually do an experiment, they come and say again: "Stop doing the experiment, telepathy doesn't exist!”.


We say only: build a more serious protocol. Make other people repeating the experiences, etc.




So how is progress to be made if they create an infinite loop of denial? Very few people (including myself) take the constructive attitude: "Ok, here is an interesting phenomenon. How it might work?”.

If the existing experience were convincing, the simplest theory is that we transmit information by radio waves. Brains are known to send such waves. But some people reject that idea because they add that telepathy has to be non local, making the protocol of the experience even more doubtful with respect to such a claim.




Why do people waste their lives playing the "smart skeptic" card dismissing everything instead of actually doing something about trying to find an explanation ?

On the contrary, there are many explanations possibles, but no convincing experience showing the existence of the phenomena. This does not mean that we disbelieve in such phenomenon, we just don’t find convincing paper, nor even convincing definition of what “telepathy” could be.




How is an explanation to be found if they reject from the very start the phenomenon ?

But which phenomenon. Please, if you believe there is a convincing paper, cite it (apology if you did that already). Just one paper. The one that you find convincing.



They say: "Oh, but we are not rejecting it, we are actually encourage scientists to prove it!". Ok, but how are scientists to prove it, if a theoretical framework is not laid down first ? In order to actually build an experiment, you need to know what you want to experiment with in the first place. But if you reject from the very start any attempt at hypothesis formulation, how is the experiment to be designed ?

Animals exploits electricity since million of years. For me it is a bit of a mystery that radio-wave-like  telepathy has not yet been detected.

To claim it has been detected, we need a repeatable experience, and to repeat it with different groups of researchers. 

We don’t criticise you for searching evidences, but we are not convinced when you claim that such evidence exist. I think. 

The fact that you find it obvious that such thing exists and has been observed trows some doubt too. 

Bruno






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John Clark

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May 28, 2019, 8:14:12 AM5/28/19
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On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 5:37 AM 'Cosmin Visan'  <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> If a person lives only to make negative comments about everything, then yes, it is a legit question to ask what they live for.

I only make negative comments about everything a person says if everything a person says is not only wrong but also silly, that is also true of many members of this list. You can use the scientific method and determine if what I just said is true; do something you've never done before, say something that is not brain dead dumb and see if you still get negative comments.

John K Clark

 

Brent Meeker

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May 28, 2019, 1:31:08 PM5/28/19
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Notice that Cosmin has been invited to demonstrate his telepathic powers several times and even to propose a test of it himself.  But after saying it is common and easy, he has demurred to provide any test.  Now he blames others criticism for stopping him.

Brent
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Cosmin Visan

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May 28, 2019, 1:33:24 PM5/28/19
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Telepathy is facilitated by emotional contexts. You don't just prove it on command.

Cosmin Visan

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May 28, 2019, 1:34:41 PM5/28/19
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Name 3 explanations.

Bruno Marchal

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May 29, 2019, 6:49:39 AM5/29/19
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I gave already one: radio-waves (but your answer was that this was not telepathy).

Another one is the common cause. People argued that they did a telepathic experience because they decide to phone to each other at the exact same time, but that type of things could be explained by common cause.

Then, like with many things of that type, an explanation is that telepathy does not exist, but results from wishful thinking and lack of sense of rigour. Here the explanation is prestidigitation. Some parapsychological phenomena have been explained(away) in this manner, and telepathy might be one of them.

Bruno





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Cosmin Visan

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May 30, 2019, 2:37:29 AM5/30/19
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I asked for explanations, not for explanations away. So far you mentioned 1, though you claimed that there are many. 2 more please.


On Wednesday, 29 May 2019 13:49:39 UTC+3, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 28 May 2019, at 19:34, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Name 3 explanations.

On Tuesday, 28 May 2019 13:52:27 UTC+3, Bruno Marchal wrote:

On the contrary, there are many explanations possibles,

I gave already one: radio-waves (but your answer was that this was not telepathy).

Another one is the common cause. People argued that they did a telepathic experience because they decide to phone to each other at the exact same time, but that type of things could be explained by common cause.

Then, like with many things of that type, an explanation is that telepathy does not exist, but results from wishful thinking and lack of sense of rigour. Here the explanation is prestidigitation. Some parapsychological phenomena have been explained(away) in this manner, and telepathy might be one of them.

Bruno





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Bruno Marchal

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May 30, 2019, 7:18:20 AM5/30/19
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On 30 May 2019, at 08:37, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

I asked for explanations, not for explanations away. So far you mentioned 1, though you claimed that there are many. 2 more please.

On Wednesday, 29 May 2019 13:49:39 UTC+3, Bruno Marchal wrote:

On 28 May 2019, at 19:34, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Name 3 explanations.

On Tuesday, 28 May 2019 13:52:27 UTC+3, Bruno Marchal wrote:

On the contrary, there are many explanations possibles,

I gave already one: radio-waves (but your answer was that this was not telepathy).

That is one.




Another one is the common cause. People argued that they did a telepathic experience because they decide to phone to each other at the exact same time, but that type of things could be explained by common cause.

That is the second.




Then, like with many things of that type, an explanation is that telepathy does not exist, but results from wishful thinking and lack of sense of rigour. Here the explanation is prestidigitation. Some parapsychological phenomena have been explained(away) in this manner, and telepathy might be one of them.


That is a third one.

It explains perhaps telepathy away. I concede this.

If you assume non-mechanism, I can provide much more explanations, but none seems to me reasonable enough to be a subject of debate, because without mechanism, we can use basically any magic, and as I have no evidences for any magic, including the magic use of matter by the materialist, I prefer to assume only what I need in the frame of my working hypothesis (where I need only a tiny corner of the arithmetical truth).

I am a stubborn scientist Cosmin. At some point I may ask you a formula, and the way to test it. We agree on something: the illusory character of primary matter. Nevertheless I show how to recover its appearance  from the mechanist theory of consciousness, and how to test it. Then most of contemporary physics confirms mechanism, up to now.

Bruno



Bruno





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Cosmin Visan

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May 30, 2019, 8:52:39 AM5/30/19
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Why don't you have a Nobel prize if your theory is the best ?

John Clark

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May 30, 2019, 9:35:40 AM5/30/19
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On Tue, May 28, 2019  'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Notice that Cosmin has been invited to demonstrate his telepathic powers several times and even to propose a test of it himself.  But after saying it is common and easy, he has demurred to provide any test. 

Cosmin also says "Telepathy is facilitated by emotional contexts" but doesn't say which emotions, but I propose the emotion that would best fit the facts would be contempt for telepathy. Suppose there were a inverse relationship between belief in telepathy and telepathic ability;  somebody like Cosmin is absolutely certain telepathy is real but because of that he doesn't have an iota of telepathic power, so he marches into a scientist's lab perfectly confident he can demonstrate it and fails completely. Meanwhile a skeptic who thinks telepathy is 100% hogwash is actually a powerful telepath, but the more transcendental experiences he has the less certain he is that its hogwash and the less powerful a telepath he becomes.

I think telepathy is 100% hogwash and have never had a transcendental experience, so if the above theory is true I must be an enormously powerful telepath; I will now use my vast psychic ability to predict that Cosmin will NEVER demonstrate his powers.

John K Clark

Alan Grayson

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May 30, 2019, 7:59:39 PM5/30/19
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I've experienced telepathy a few times in my life, the last time was in 2003 when my mother passed away. I was in Ukraine. She passed away in Florida. AG 
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