Critique of Penrose's claim of a universe before the Big Bang

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Alan Grayson

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Oct 9, 2020, 3:19:36 AM10/9/20
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Lawrence Crowell

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Oct 9, 2020, 5:53:46 AM10/9/20
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I read this yesterday. It so far appears there is no data to support information from a prior cosmic cycle. 

Penrose did ground breaking work on the nature of black holes and I think his crowning achievement in mathematical physics is twistor theory of the mid 70s. His CCC theory is a bit like Hoyle's steady state theory in that it is a sort of intended obstruction to a more successful theory that is gaining support.

LC

On Friday, October 9, 2020 at 2:19:36 AM UTC-5 agrays...@gmail.com wrote:

Alan Grayson

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Oct 9, 2020, 1:27:00 PM10/9/20
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On Friday, October 9, 2020 at 3:53:46 AM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
I read this yesterday. It so far appears there is no data to support information from a prior cosmic cycle. 

Penrose did ground breaking work on the nature of black holes and I think his crowning achievement in mathematical physics is twistor theory of the mid 70s. His CCC theory is a bit like Hoyle's steady state theory in that it is a sort of intended obstruction to a more successful theory that is gaining support.

LC

Please clarify your last sentence above. What "more successful theory" are you referring to; the hot BB with inflation? AG 

Lawrence Crowell

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Oct 10, 2020, 3:03:00 PM10/10/20
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On Friday, October 9, 2020 at 12:27:00 PM UTC-5 agrays...@gmail.com wrote:


On Friday, October 9, 2020 at 3:53:46 AM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
I read this yesterday. It so far appears there is no data to support information from a prior cosmic cycle. 

Penrose did ground breaking work on the nature of black holes and I think his crowning achievement in mathematical physics is twistor theory of the mid 70s. His CCC theory is a bit like Hoyle's steady state theory in that it is a sort of intended obstruction to a more successful theory that is gaining support.

LC

Please clarify your last sentence above. What "more successful theory" are you referring to; the hot BB with inflation? AG 

Primarily back then it was just BB. Now with inflation a much wider range of problems have been solved, and it is supported by CMB data.

LC

Alan Grayson

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Oct 10, 2020, 6:32:25 PM10/10/20
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On Saturday, October 10, 2020 at 1:03:00 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
On Friday, October 9, 2020 at 12:27:00 PM UTC-5 agrays...@gmail.com wrote:


On Friday, October 9, 2020 at 3:53:46 AM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
I read this yesterday. It so far appears there is no data to support information from a prior cosmic cycle. 

Penrose did ground breaking work on the nature of black holes and I think his crowning achievement in mathematical physics is twistor theory of the mid 70s. His CCC theory is a bit like Hoyle's steady state theory in that it is a sort of intended obstruction to a more successful theory that is gaining support.

LC

Please clarify your last sentence above. What "more successful theory" are you referring to; the hot BB with inflation? AG 

Primarily back then it was just BB. Now with inflation a much wider range of problems have been solved, and it is supported by CMB data.

LC

Has anyone proposed a Cold BB, which seems illogical since one can imagine an expanding universe backward in time; that is, contracting and getting denser and hotter? AG 

Lawrence Crowell

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Oct 10, 2020, 7:25:35 PM10/10/20
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On Saturday, October 10, 2020 at 5:32:25 PM UTC-5 agrays...@gmail.com wrote:


On Saturday, October 10, 2020 at 1:03:00 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
On Friday, October 9, 2020 at 12:27:00 PM UTC-5 agrays...@gmail.com wrote:


On Friday, October 9, 2020 at 3:53:46 AM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
I read this yesterday. It so far appears there is no data to support information from a prior cosmic cycle. 

Penrose did ground breaking work on the nature of black holes and I think his crowning achievement in mathematical physics is twistor theory of the mid 70s. His CCC theory is a bit like Hoyle's steady state theory in that it is a sort of intended obstruction to a more successful theory that is gaining support.

LC

Please clarify your last sentence above. What "more successful theory" are you referring to; the hot BB with inflation? AG 

Primarily back then it was just BB. Now with inflation a much wider range of problems have been solved, and it is supported by CMB data.

LC

Has anyone proposed a Cold BB, which seems illogical since one can imagine an expanding universe backward in time; that is, contracting and getting denser and hotter? AG 

As a rule the more a gas is compressed the hotter it gets.

LC

Alan Grayson

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Oct 10, 2020, 9:52:58 PM10/10/20
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On Saturday, October 10, 2020 at 5:25:35 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote:


On Saturday, October 10, 2020 at 5:32:25 PM UTC-5 agrays...@gmail.com wrote:


On Saturday, October 10, 2020 at 1:03:00 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
On Friday, October 9, 2020 at 12:27:00 PM UTC-5 agrays...@gmail.com wrote:


On Friday, October 9, 2020 at 3:53:46 AM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
I read this yesterday. It so far appears there is no data to support information from a prior cosmic cycle. 

Penrose did ground breaking work on the nature of black holes and I think his crowning achievement in mathematical physics is twistor theory of the mid 70s. His CCC theory is a bit like Hoyle's steady state theory in that it is a sort of intended obstruction to a more successful theory that is gaining support.

LC

Please clarify your last sentence above. What "more successful theory" are you referring to; the hot BB with inflation? AG 

Primarily back then it was just BB. Now with inflation a much wider range of problems have been solved, and it is supported by CMB data.

LC

Has anyone proposed a Cold BB, which seems illogical since one can imagine an expanding universe backward in time; that is, contracting and getting denser and hotter? AG 

As a rule the more a gas is compressed the hotter it gets.

LC

Of course. Does that mean a COLD BB has never been proposed because it defies our understanding of how a contracting gas behaves? AG 

Lawrence Crowell

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Oct 11, 2020, 6:25:04 AM10/11/20
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On Saturday, October 10, 2020 at 8:52:58 PM UTC-5 agrays...@gmail.com wrote:


On Saturday, October 10, 2020 at 5:25:35 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote:


On Saturday, October 10, 2020 at 5:32:25 PM UTC-5 agrays...@gmail.com wrote:


On Saturday, October 10, 2020 at 1:03:00 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
On Friday, October 9, 2020 at 12:27:00 PM UTC-5 agrays...@gmail.com wrote:


On Friday, October 9, 2020 at 3:53:46 AM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
I read this yesterday. It so far appears there is no data to support information from a prior cosmic cycle. 

Penrose did ground breaking work on the nature of black holes and I think his crowning achievement in mathematical physics is twistor theory of the mid 70s. His CCC theory is a bit like Hoyle's steady state theory in that it is a sort of intended obstruction to a more successful theory that is gaining support.

LC

Please clarify your last sentence above. What "more successful theory" are you referring to; the hot BB with inflation? AG 

Primarily back then it was just BB. Now with inflation a much wider range of problems have been solved, and it is supported by CMB data.

LC

Has anyone proposed a Cold BB, which seems illogical since one can imagine an expanding universe backward in time; that is, contracting and getting denser and hotter? AG 

As a rule the more a gas is compressed the hotter it gets.

LC

Of course. Does that mean a COLD BB has never been proposed because it defies our understanding of how a contracting gas behaves? AG 

Yes.

LC

Alan Grayson

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Oct 11, 2020, 6:42:53 AM10/11/20
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On Sunday, October 11, 2020 at 4:25:04 AM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote:


On Saturday, October 10, 2020 at 8:52:58 PM UTC-5 agrays...@gmail.com wrote:


On Saturday, October 10, 2020 at 5:25:35 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote:


On Saturday, October 10, 2020 at 5:32:25 PM UTC-5 agrays...@gmail.com wrote:


On Saturday, October 10, 2020 at 1:03:00 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
On Friday, October 9, 2020 at 12:27:00 PM UTC-5 agrays...@gmail.com wrote:


On Friday, October 9, 2020 at 3:53:46 AM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
I read this yesterday. It so far appears there is no data to support information from a prior cosmic cycle. 

Penrose did ground breaking work on the nature of black holes and I think his crowning achievement in mathematical physics is twistor theory of the mid 70s. His CCC theory is a bit like Hoyle's steady state theory in that it is a sort of intended obstruction to a more successful theory that is gaining support.

LC

Please clarify your last sentence above. What "more successful theory" are you referring to; the hot BB with inflation? AG 

Primarily back then it was just BB. Now with inflation a much wider range of problems have been solved, and it is supported by CMB data.

LC

Has anyone proposed a Cold BB, which seems illogical since one can imagine an expanding universe backward in time; that is, contracting and getting denser and hotter? AG 

As a rule the more a gas is compressed the hotter it gets.

LC

Of course. Does that mean a COLD BB has never been proposed because it defies our understanding of how a contracting gas behaves? AG 

Yes.

LC

TY. Then it cools as it expands. But why do some, or is it all BB theories, propose a "reheating" phase? How could it reheat if it is still expanding? What's the need for reheating? AG 

Lawrence Crowell

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Oct 11, 2020, 10:07:33 AM10/11/20
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On Sunday, October 11, 2020 at 5:42:53 AM UTC-5 agrays...@gmail.com wrote:


On Sunday, October 11, 2020 at 4:25:04 AM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote:


On Saturday, October 10, 2020 at 8:52:58 PM UTC-5 agrays...@gmail.com wrote:


On Saturday, October 10, 2020 at 5:25:35 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote:


On Saturday, October 10, 2020 at 5:32:25 PM UTC-5 agrays...@gmail.com wrote:


On Saturday, October 10, 2020 at 1:03:00 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
On Friday, October 9, 2020 at 12:27:00 PM UTC-5 agrays...@gmail.com wrote:


On Friday, October 9, 2020 at 3:53:46 AM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
I read this yesterday. It so far appears there is no data to support information from a prior cosmic cycle. 

Penrose did ground breaking work on the nature of black holes and I think his crowning achievement in mathematical physics is twistor theory of the mid 70s. His CCC theory is a bit like Hoyle's steady state theory in that it is a sort of intended obstruction to a more successful theory that is gaining support.

LC

Please clarify your last sentence above. What "more successful theory" are you referring to; the hot BB with inflation? AG 

Primarily back then it was just BB. Now with inflation a much wider range of problems have been solved, and it is supported by CMB data.

LC

Has anyone proposed a Cold BB, which seems illogical since one can imagine an expanding universe backward in time; that is, contracting and getting denser and hotter? AG 

As a rule the more a gas is compressed the hotter it gets.

LC

Of course. Does that mean a COLD BB has never been proposed because it defies our understanding of how a contracting gas behaves? AG 

Yes.

LC

TY. Then it cools as it expands. But why do some, or is it all BB theories, propose a "reheating" phase? How could it reheat if it is still expanding? What's the need for reheating? AG 

That involves the vacuum physics of inflation. It is analogous to a phase transition and the reheating might be compared to latent heat of fusion.

LC 

Alan Grayson

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Oct 11, 2020, 9:57:20 PM10/11/20
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Does reheating occur before or after inflation? Is this the case for every (hot) BB theory? AG

Lawrence Crowell

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Oct 11, 2020, 10:37:29 PM10/11/20
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After LC

Alan Grayson

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Oct 12, 2020, 1:38:55 AM10/12/20
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On Sunday, October 11, 2020 at 8:37:29 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
After LC

Do all BB theories contain the reheating postulate? AG

Alan Grayson

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Oct 13, 2020, 3:44:44 AM10/13/20
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On Sunday, October 11, 2020 at 11:38:55 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote:


On Sunday, October 11, 2020 at 8:37:29 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
After LC

Do all BB theories contain the reheating postulate? AG

It's not a hard question, and then we're probably done here. I want to know if all BB theories have the reheating postulate? I want to know if it's a necessary postulate that solves some outstanding problems, or can it be dispensed with. AG 
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