I heard there are a couple of people that claim they've been on the Moon. I asked them to prove it to me by going again, but they said they cannot do it. What do you think ? Is this anecdote true ?
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Also in cases of telepathy and precognitions the "technology" and the "motivation" existed at the moment of their occurrence. Actually, it seems that the conditions required for paranormal phenomena are being met way more often that the conditions required for Moon landing. So, it appears that if we are to believe such an extraordinarily unlikely event such as Moon landing, that only happened a couple of time in the entire 4.5 billion years history of life on planet Earth, then we are clearly to believe paranormal, which happened quadrillion of times since life on Earth.
On Wednesday, 15 May 2019 15:32:07 UTC+3, telmo wrote:We can never be 100% sure of anything except that we are conscious, but the technology existed and so did the motivation.
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In fact, sir, I personally know Randi, having met him at events and by telephone. He is totally NOT a charlatan. He won the MacArthur Prize for his tireless work on exposing charlatans such as Uri Geller (MacArthur Prize usually given to prospective young science students, Randi received it in his 50's), was an amateur astronomer early in his life, and has a great knowledge of the scientific method. No, he doesn't have a degree in the sciences. Yes, he had many advisors who were/are impeccable scientists and professionals. Sorry, you are wrong about Randi.
Cheers! Howard
On 5/16/2019 2:44 AM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote:
Randi is a charlatan. He (and the people the cite him) has no understanding whatsoever about how science works. He wants from people to do instant magic. But that's not how science works. Even the CERN scientists are making billions of collisions in order to obtain 1 Higgs boson. If it were for Randi, he would never awarded any Nobel prize for the Higgs discovery, because it was not a shocking amazing soap opera performance. Lots of people have demonstrated to this charlatan telepathy and precognition, but he refused to acknowledge them, because they were not straight out hollywood display.
On Thursday, 16 May 2019 05:03:54 UTC+3, howardmarks wrote:
There have been a number of "precognition hotlines" on the internet in the past, with thousands or millions of hits - but their "batting average" is flat ZERO. One such website is http://thepremonitions.com .
James Randi, now retired (randi.org), had a million dollar challenge for any type of paranormal and/or psychic phenomena (such as telepathy, etc.), out for 25 years - only condition on getting the money (or giving it to one's favorite charity) was to actually PERFORM. Many many people said they could perform, but, under impartial conditions (even with only cameras as observers if that was the condition) = their batting average was also ZERO.
But, hey, belief has no place in phenomena, unless one is studying why people believe things.
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I heard there are a couple of people that claim they've been on the Moon. I asked them to prove it to me by going again, but they said they cannot do it. What do you think ? Is this anecdote true ?
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On 15 May 2019, at 15:15, Philip Thrift <cloud...@gmail.com> wrote:
As I pointed out earlier, quantum mechanics allows for a weak (or freak) phenomenon of telepathy and/or precognition.But how weak is the thing.
@philipthrift
On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 at 7:42:25 AM UTC-5, Cosmin Visan wrote:Also in cases of telepathy and precognitions the "technology" and the "motivation" existed at the moment of their occurrence. Actually, it seems that the conditions required for paranormal phenomena are being met way more often that the conditions required for Moon landing. So, it appears that if we are to believe such an extraordinarily unlikely event such as Moon landing, that only happened a couple of time in the entire 4.5 billion years history of life on planet Earth, then we are clearly to believe paranormal, which happened quadrillion of times since life on Earth.
On Wednesday, 15 May 2019 15:32:07 UTC+3, telmo wrote:We can never be 100% sure of anything except that we are conscious, but the technology existed and so did the motivation.
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Telepathy is not information transmission. Telepathy is consciousnesses unifications: 2 or more consciousnesses unify, they live a common experience, and then they split back apart, all remembering the shared experience.Personal experiences are all there is, since consciousness is all there is. Ignoring them only shows that you are an irrational indoctrinated dogmatic believer, with which no discussion can take place.
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> Also in cases of telepathy and precognitions the "technology" and the "motivation" existed at the moment of their occurrence. Actually, it seems that the conditions required for paranormal phenomena are being met way more often that the conditions required for Moon landing.
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Landing on the Moon is anecdotal, since is only reported by 3 people. Telepathies are reported by 7 billion people all the time, including me, so they are not anecdotal. They are like breathing. Everybody breaths. And if you say you never had telepathies, you lie.
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Whereas if you say a phenomenon is real and common, but you're unwilling to demonstrate it you are a charlatan.
Brent
On 5/17/2019 8:30 AM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote:
Stating the obvious is not insulting. If a phenomenon is real and you say is not, what else are you if not a irrational dogmatic believer in materialism ?--
On Friday, 17 May 2019 17:20:03 UTC+3, Terren Suydam wrote:If there isn't a word for this, there should be, to name the situation when someone makes some insulting claim that is best understood as a projection of one's own justified fear of how they're perceived. Trump does it all the time.
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On Friday, May 17, 2019 at 4:12:24 PM UTC-5, Cosmin Visan wrote:>>Landing on the Moon is anecdotal, since is only reported by 3 people. Telepathies are reported by 7 billion people all the time, including me, so they are not anecdotal. They are like breathing. Everybody breaths. And if you say you never had telepathies, you lie.>What balderdash!
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> Lots of people have "premonitions" and beliefs they experience telepathy
Of course. Do you think that what they teach you at school is the truth ? History is invented by the winners. History is just an anecdotal story.
LC
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On 17 May 2019, at 16:05, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:Telepathy is not information transmission. Telepathy is consciousnesses unifications: 2 or more consciousnesses unify, they live a common experience, and then they split back apart, all remembering the shared experience.
Personal experiences are all there is, since consciousness is all there is. Ignoring them only shows that you are an irrational indoctrinated dogmatic believer, with which no discussion can take place.
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On 17 May 2019, at 16:19, Terren Suydam <terren...@gmail.com> wrote:If there isn't a word for this, there should be, to name the situation when someone makes some insulting claim that is best understood as a projection of one's own justified fear of how they're perceived. Trump does it all the time.
On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 10:05 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:Telepathy is not information transmission. Telepathy is consciousnesses unifications: 2 or more consciousnesses unify, they live a common experience, and then they split back apart, all remembering the shared experience.Personal experiences are all there is, since consciousness is all there is. Ignoring them only shows that you are an irrational indoctrinated dogmatic believer, with which no discussion can take place.--
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On 17 May 2019, at 17:30, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:Stating the obvious is not insulting.
If a phenomenon is real and you say is not, what else are you if not a irrational dogmatic believer in materialism ?
On Friday, 17 May 2019 17:20:03 UTC+3, Terren Suydam wrote:If there isn't a word for this, there should be, to name the situation when someone makes some insulting claim that is best understood as a projection of one's own justified fear of how they're perceived. Trump does it all the time.
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On 16 May 2019, at 14:13, Lawrence Crowell <goldenfield...@gmail.com> wrote:On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 at 7:18:47 AM UTC-5, Cosmin Visan wrote:I heard there are a couple of people that claim they've been on the Moon. I asked them to prove it to me by going again, but they said they cannot do it. What do you think ? Is this anecdote true ?When I was a kid I was big on the moon landing. We went on a vacation to Florida and saw one of the Saturn V rockets lift off. The thing is that if these were faked, then NASA built a 370 foot tall rocket that roared off the launch pad only to ditch the thing in the ocean or some such event and then do a studio enactment. If NASA were to build such a machine, why fake it? --- they might as well have gone all the way.For a 5 years in the 90s I was employed in spacecraft navigation. I worked the mechanics on how to get a spacecraft to some orbit in space, whether around Earth or out into the solar system, or to reach some other planetary body. I timed my visits to the Kennedy Space Center to watch shuttle launches, one landing and some Delta launches. This stuff is not faked. There is in fact a visitor center where an unused Saturn V rocket is displayed.The idea that moon landings are faked is in line with other historical denials, such as holocaust denial or that black slaves in the south really enjoyed their status and so forth. Conspiracy ideas and nonsense about alt-history or alt-science such as creationism (even flat earth stuff is getting popular) are growing in decibel volume these days. It is a sign the minds of people, particularly Americans, are being rubbished up.It is very sad sign that education has been lowering down for sometimes. It confirms my feeling that fake theologies, like in most religious institutions is a bad training in argument per-authority.We will leave the Middle-Âge and obscurantism when theology will be returned back at the faculty of science, where we are humble and modest, never claim truth, and propose theories with means of evaluation.The separation of science and theology has separated the human and the exact sciences making them both inexact and inhuman.Bruno
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See ? That's the problem with you irrational materialist dogmatic believers. Even if people gives you evidence, you keep continue yelling "EVIDENCE! EVIDENCE!". Maybe you should consult a psychiatrist or something. You cannot have dialogues with irrational broken records.
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I'll add my voice to those asking you to put up or shut up. Produce an act of telepathy. You name the terms, since you're the one making the claim that you can do it.
But you won't do it, because you can't. That's my clairvoyant prediction.
On Mon, May 20, 2019, 6:37 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
See ? That's the problem with you irrational materialist dogmatic believers. Even if people gives you evidence, you keep continue yelling "EVIDENCE! EVIDENCE!". Maybe you should consult a psychiatrist or something. You cannot have dialogues with irrational broken records.
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Telepathy doesn't happen necessarily at will. It only happens when certain conditions are being met. Asking someone to produce telepathy on the spot is like asking him to produce Higgs Boson on the spot. So let's do like this: you produce me a Higgs Boson, and I'll produce you a telepathy. If you can't do it, it means Higgs Bosons don't exist. They are just anecdots from a bunch of gurus at CERN.
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If Higgs Boson were real, it should be *very very* easy to show it. So show it to me.
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> Telepathy is not only real, but is obviously real.If it is obvious *everybody* should see it, gravity is obvious, gravity is easy to show.> Stating the obvious is not insulting. If a phenomenon is real and you say is not, what else are you if not a irrational dogmatic believer in materialism ?If it is obvious *everybody* should see it, gravity is obvious, gravity is easy to show.> Telepathies are reported by 7 billion people all the time, including me, so they are not anecdotal. They are like breathing.If it is like breathing *it is fucking easy to show then*, show us.
Le mar. 21 mai 2019 à 12:02, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> a écrit :
--Where did I say such a thing ? Copy-paste please and show me where I said.On Tuesday, 21 May 2019 13:01:03 UTC+3, Quentin Anciaux wrote:If telepathy is as hard to get a higgs statistics *it is not easy and common*, that's your assertion that telepathy is easy and common not mine.
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On 20 May 2019, at 14:18, Lawrence Crowell <goldenfield...@gmail.com> wrote:On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 5:55:19 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote:On 16 May 2019, at 14:13, Lawrence Crowell <goldenfield...@gmail.com> wrote:On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 at 7:18:47 AM UTC-5, Cosmin Visan wrote:I heard there are a couple of people that claim they've been on the Moon. I asked them to prove it to me by going again, but they said they cannot do it. What do you think ? Is this anecdote true ?When I was a kid I was big on the moon landing. We went on a vacation to Florida and saw one of the Saturn V rockets lift off. The thing is that if these were faked, then NASA built a 370 foot tall rocket that roared off the launch pad only to ditch the thing in the ocean or some such event and then do a studio enactment. If NASA were to build such a machine, why fake it? --- they might as well have gone all the way.For a 5 years in the 90s I was employed in spacecraft navigation. I worked the mechanics on how to get a spacecraft to some orbit in space, whether around Earth or out into the solar system, or to reach some other planetary body. I timed my visits to the Kennedy Space Center to watch shuttle launches, one landing and some Delta launches. This stuff is not faked. There is in fact a visitor center where an unused Saturn V rocket is displayed.The idea that moon landings are faked is in line with other historical denials, such as holocaust denial or that black slaves in the south really enjoyed their status and so forth. Conspiracy ideas and nonsense about alt-history or alt-science such as creationism (even flat earth stuff is getting popular) are growing in decibel volume these days. It is a sign the minds of people, particularly Americans, are being rubbished up.It is very sad sign that education has been lowering down for sometimes. It confirms my feeling that fake theologies, like in most religious institutions is a bad training in argument per-authority.We will leave the Middle-Âge and obscurantism when theology will be returned back at the faculty of science, where we are humble and modest, never claim truth, and propose theories with means of evaluation.The separation of science and theology has separated the human and the exact sciences making them both inexact and inhuman.BrunoI would question to what extent theology has been ever a faculty of science.
Since I presume most people on this list are Christian I will use that,
where if you think about it Jesus turning water into wine is not really that different an idea from Cinderella's fairy godmother turning mice and a pumpkin into a team of horses bridled to a carriage.
In both instances you have some supernatural being, or a being capable of supernatural powers, able to convert matter from one form to another by shear force of thought or will. The difference is the narrative about Jesus is offered up as absolute divine truth and the story about Cinderella is a bit more honest and is framed as a fairy tale.
Now with theology we can push this into metaphor, where Jesus making wine out of water is symbolic of going from baptism to communion. Lazarus being raised from the dead is also a suspension of natural principles, where as the narrative has it Lazarus was pretty far gone and dead for 3 days, but Jesus raising him from death. That violates of course thermodynamic principles. The metaphor however could be made this is about discarding old ways with dirty rags and decay for a new sort of vibrant life. The three days also stand in for the resurrection motif. I would though say that even if one does take these are purely metaphorical that this is not so much science, but rather language arts and literature.
LC
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On 20 May 2019, at 14:29, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:Telepathy happens when you interact with people in real life. Do you interact with people ?
On Monday, 20 May 2019 14:02:15 UTC+3, Bruno Marchal wrote:telepathy is usually not even well defined, and I see no evidences
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It is real like breathing, not easy.
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On 21 May 2019, at 14:34, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:And for Bruno, I wonder how the telepathic "radio waves" emitted by such a poor emitter such as the brain, traveled all this distance.
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Telepathy doesn't happen necessarily at will. It only happens when certain conditions are being met. Asking someone to produce telepathy on the spot is like asking him to produce Higgs Boson on the spot. So let's do like this: you produce me a Higgs Boson, and I'll produce you a telepathy. If you can't do it, it means Higgs Bosons don't exist. They are just anecdots from a bunch of gurus at CERN.
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If Higgs Boson were real, it should be *very very* easy to show it. So show it to me.
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If Higgs Boson were real, it should be *very very* easy to show it. So show it to me.
Did you consider that maybe you had recently shared experiences / conversations / whatever that triggered similar dreams? Or that you woke up and saw the facebook message before dreaming but don't remember it? Or...
One day I was standing in a train station. This thought came out of nowhere: "wouldn't it be weird if an empty train just passed by?". An empty train just passed by moment after. Empty trains that do not stop were not a common event at that station, it was the first time I saw one. Is this proof or even strong evidence of precognition? Of course not, there are 1000 more prosaic explanations to consider before assuming something that is so much outside of our understanding of reality. For example, I might have noticed some warning but only became aware of it at some subconscious level. Or maybe I observed 2 or 3 unusual things and my brain connected the dots.
On 21 May 2019, at 17:50, howardmarks <howar...@doitnow.com> wrote:That's the essence of it... not to confuse theology and ontology with a search for the truth..
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On 21 May 2019, at 20:15, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:The Higgs boson was produced very much "at will". In fact a lot willing went into it.
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On 21 May 2019, at 20:15, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
The Higgs boson was produced very much "at will". In fact a lot willing went into it.
You mean the Englert-Brout-Higgs boson?
Englert did not want it. He was disappointed. He learned nothing. He said it on TV when he got the prize.
He was used to assume the Standard Model of the particles.
He would have preferred something new. Like a refutation, a surprise, enforcing the change of mind, something needed to progress.
So, if you tell me that the Higgs boson appeared by the psychic will of a conspiracy of telepath physicists, (with some help of the engineers, I guess), I don’ think Englert participated in this.
Bruno
Brent
On 5/21/2019 1:09 AM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote:
Telepathy doesn't happen necessarily at will. It only happens when certain conditions are being met. Asking someone to produce telepathy on the spot is like asking him to produce Higgs Boson on the spot. So let's do like this: you produce me a Higgs Boson, and I'll produce you a telepathy. If you can't do it, it means Higgs Bosons don't exist. They are just anecdots from a bunch of gurus at CERN.--
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Good point on the "Higgs" Boson. Especially when the discoverer said what he said. The experiments at CERN, Fermi Lab, etc. were run with the standard model in mind. They defined the "evidence" they expected a Higgs boson to manifest in residue particles, and, when they found, amongst the subatomic and atomic debris, a particle near the characteristics they expected, they called it a "hit". There is only indirect evidence. We can't directly observe picometer objects moving at close to the speed of light. We know few things, like the mass to charge ratio and approx kinetic energy...
Cheers!
On 5/22/2019 11:20 PM, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote:
On 5/22/2019 9:07 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 21 May 2019, at 20:15, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
The Higgs boson was produced very much "at will". In fact a lot willing went into it.
You mean the Englert-Brout-Higgs boson?
Englert did not want it. He was disappointed. He learned nothing. He said it on TV when he got the prize.
He was used to assume the Standard Model of the particles.
He would have preferred something new. Like a refutation, a surprise, enforcing the change of mind, something needed to progress.
All physicists would have preferred something new. You don't make progress just by confirmation.
Brent
So, if you tell me that the Higgs boson appeared by the psychic will of a conspiracy of telepath physicists, (with some help of the engineers, I guess), I don’ think Englert participated in this.
Bruno
Brent
On 5/21/2019 1:09 AM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote:
Telepathy doesn't happen necessarily at will. It only happens when certain conditions are being met. Asking someone to produce telepathy on the spot is like asking him to produce Higgs Boson on the spot. So let's do like this: you produce me a Higgs Boson, and I'll produce you a telepathy. If you can't do it, it means Higgs Bosons don't exist. They are just anecdots from a bunch of gurus at CERN.--
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the details are wrong
On Thu, May 23, 2019 at 11:25:16AM -0500, howardmarks wrote: [...]In 20 years, Randi's team couldn't find one person that could perform under any conditions - and PSICOP, ditto, for 100 years. And then, there's Michael Shermer's work, Hyman's, etc. Cheers! HowardThis is not a sarcasm, but it may sound like it: perhaps, those researchers should train their methodolody on something that should be much easier, like, say, proving existence of romantic love? In a lab, with cameras etc. And, of course, give a prize to those who can successfully demonstrate it on themselves. Maybe proper testing is hard.
> No. You don't understand how telepathy and consciousness generally works.
> Consciousness works by unification:
> in James Randi's case, he was saddened by the amount of fraud done on innocent people who called themselves "psychic," telepathic," able to "talk with the dead" and so forth.
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On 24 May 2019, at 02:26, Lawrence Crowell <goldenfield...@gmail.com> wrote:On Thursday, May 23, 2019 at 11:03:49 AM UTC-5, howardmarks wrote:Good point on the "Higgs" Boson. Especially when the discoverer said what he said. The experiments at CERN, Fermi Lab, etc. were run with the standard model in mind. They defined the "evidence" they expected a Higgs boson to manifest in residue particles, and, when they found, amongst the subatomic and atomic debris, a particle near the characteristics they expected, they called it a "hit". There is only indirect evidence. We can't directly observe picometer objects moving at close to the speed of light. We know few things, like the mass to charge ratio and approx kinetic energy...
Cheers!My area is physics, and have written on the connection between spacetime or gravitation with particle physics. Cosmin wanted to see the Higgs boson, and that is about it. It may be disappointing, but the particle only last about 10^{-25} seconds on a path 10^{-15}cm long. So we detect this field by the particles it decays into. Since it requires a lot of energy the machine is large, the detectors are large and it is a major undertaking. I don't have Higgs particles in my pocket.
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