This is the man who says he found Hunter Biden's laptop

[John Clark]

Rudy Giuliani Borat Video With 15-Year-Old

John K Clark

[Jason Resch]

Wei Dai's ``everything'' mailing list

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998
From: Wei Dai
Subject: ANNOUNCE: the "everything" mailing list

You are invited to join a mailing list for discussion of the idea that all possible universes exist. Some possible topics of discussion might include:

• What is the set of all possible universes?
• What is a reasonable prior/posterior distribution for the universe that I am in?
• Why do we believe that both the past and the future are not completely random, but the future is more random than the past?
• Before observing anything about the universe, should we expect it to have (infinitely?) many observers?
• How can we/should we predict the future and postdict the past?

Here are some papers that can serve as a basis for the discussion:

• "Investigations into the Doomsday Argument", Nick Bostrom
• "A Computer Scientist's View of Life, the Universe, and Everything", Juergen Schmidhuber
• "Is ``the theory of everything'' merely the ultimate ensemble theory?", Max Tegmark

On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 9:17 AM John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com> wrote:

Rudy Giuliani Borat Video With 15-Year-Old

John K Clark

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[John Clark]

On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 11:06 AM Jason Resch <jason...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Some possible topics of discussion might include:

What is the set of all possible universes?
What is a reasonable prior/posterior distribution for the universe that I am in?
Why do we believe that both the past and the future are not completely random, but the future is more random than the past?
Before observing anything about the universe, should we expect it to have (infinitely?) many observers?
How can we/should we predict the future and postdict the past?

Odd that there is nothing on that list about discussion about what is allowed on the list. It seems that the EVERYTHING list is misnamed.

John K Clark 

[Brent Meeker]

In the past I have been gently scolded for not conforming to the premise that "everything exists" in some sense, which seems to be the source of the name for the list.

Brent

[spudb...@aol.com]

It could have been called the Anything.physics.List, and  then it could have thus excluded any political arguments posted by yourself. It would rightly exclude any retorts by me. On whether there are alternate parallel universes, and is it fit for discussion, (your point?) let me state that academic physicists always feature in articles (every month) about multiverses, simulations, etc, and the mathematics behind it. It may be nonsense, or it could all be spot on. Do you think that science won't advance further, in the sense of ever being able to gain information on whether such hypotheses are likely?

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.

[spudb...@aol.com]

John, Biden's money connection with Xi, using his lad as conduit seems incontrovertible. When you've lost the WSJ, and many hungry US based globalists want the cheapo Chinese money train, never to end, and thus, fund Biden, this communicates something! It would have been better for you to say all politicians are corrupt, rather than Joe is pure as the driven snow. Thus, to defend this bad old boy, shows great loyalty on your part, but also insecurity. At this point, you'll gain not a vote for Joe, or deprive him of one, since all democrats have made this election about one man only. At any rate we'll see what happens in 10 days, election-wise.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/hunter-bidens-ex-business-partner-alleges-father-knew-about-venture-11603421247

An oligarchy has us, just wake up and smell the coffee, man (I prefer Black Rifle brand myself) and, begin to 'know your oligarch' because it's much quicker than saying Congressman or Senator. 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com>
To: everyth...@googlegroups.com

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[Russell Standish]

On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 03:13:39PM -0700, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote:
>
>
> On 10/23/2020 10:49 AM, John Clark wrote:
>
>
> Odd that there is nothing on that list about discussion about what is
> allowed on the list. It seems that the EVERYTHING list is misnamed.

The rationale for the list can be found at http://www.weidai.com/everything.html


--

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Principal, High Performance Coders hpc...@hpcoders.com.au
http://www.hpcoders.com.au
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[John Clark]

On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 10:47 PM <spudb...@aol.com> wrote:

> John, Biden's money connection with Xi, using his lad as conduit seems incontrovertible.

Evidence that came from Rudy Giuliani, a man that Trump's own intelligence service has warned is a conduit for Russian disinformation and troll farms, and a man who was so stupid he was fooled by Borat!  As October surprises go this one is pathetic, given the fact that there have already been 6.02*10^23 Trump scandals in the last 4 years I don't think there's one person on the face of the earth who was going to vote for Biden but after this changed their mind and decided to vote for Trump because he wanted less corruption. But if you want something incontrovertible, try Trump having a Chinese bank account and paying over 50 times more Chinese taxes than American taxes; be honest, if you had found that out about Biden do you think you might've had something to say about it?

 

> At any rate we'll see what happens in 10 days, election-wise.

I don't think so, I think that's when the real drama will begin. And you STILL haven't answered my question, if Trump loses the election will you support his efforts to use force to remain in power after January 20, 2021?  

And unlike some I am not ashamed to sign this with my real name:

John K Clark

[spudb...@aol.com]

The Borat dude years ago did some funny humor. Anyone fooled by Borat is way too trusting. I would have banded the sucker from the US, so he doesn't get offed like John Lennon did when he won his court case to stay.The main thing that Joe and son taking bribes from everyone from the Ukraine to Mother Russia, to China, seems clear. You'll have to present evidence, not a democrat ad hominem attack (per usual) to show show that Joe is not the money-hungriest poli I ever have seen. 

If true, about the China thing, (re Donaldo)  I will repeat, that yeah, Russia, China's leaders are an existential threat. For me, their installing of hypersonic first strike missiles was  a deal breaker. Then, there is China's continued push on other Asian nations, that threatens to set the world on fire. If you feel you have some evidence about Golden man, why not present it? I mean it wasn't Biden's boss, Obama, that did a trade readjustment with Xi, nor, did Bushie43 do this. See? The politicians are owned by billionaire$, but getting you or any democrat to focus on the danger of ths misgovernance is an impossible task. 

Th4 democrats, be they scientists, philosophers, or academics, walk off the map of the land of the rational when it comes to Orange Dude. The cerebrum is cast aside and the full flavor of the amygdala rules. 

-----Original Message-----
From: John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com>

[John Clark]

On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 11:42 PM <spudb...@aol.com> wrote:

> The Borat dude years ago did some funny humor. Anyone fooled by Borat is way too trusting.

And that way too trusting man that was fooled by Borat is the same man who says he found the laptop in the blind computer repair man's shop, and the same man Trump's own intelligence service had warned is a "conduit for Russian disinformation".

 

> You'll have to present evidence, not a democrat ad hominem attack (per usual) to show show that Joe is not the money-hungriest poli I ever have seen. 

Is that the way the game works now, you have to prove your innocence? Well OK then, I have seen no evidence that you are not a Russian agent and part of their massive disinformation campaign. Prove to me that you are not!

And by the way, Biden said in the debate:

"I entered as one of the poorest men in Congress, left one of the poorest men in government — in Congress and as vice president" 

Politifact fact checked Biden's statement and their conclusion was "mostly true"

Fact-checking Joe Biden's claim that he was among the poorest in government

> If true, about the China thing, (re Donaldo) 

If? Trump doesn't even deny it, his only defense is basically, "yeah so what, doesn't everybody have a secret Chinese bank account and pay more Chinese taxes than American taxes and owe 400 million dollars to foriegn actors you refuse to name?"

 

> yeah, Russia, China's leaders are an existential threat.

Well duh! There's nothing new in that, that's been true for over half a century, but what is new is that there is now for the first time in its history an American president that is an existential threat to the US Constitution and to it's way of life. 

 

> If you feel you have some evidence about Golden man, why not present it?

OK:

Trump maintains secret bank account in China

Trump paid more Chinese taxes than American taxes 

Trump owed tens of millions to Bank of China

China Paid Trump At Least $5.4 Million Since He Took Office

China grants 18 trademarks in 2 months to Trump, daughter

Making Ivanka Trump shoes in a Chinese sweatshop: Long hours, low pay and abuse

Why Does Trump Still Refuse to Criticize Putin?

> Th4 democrats, be they scientists, philosophers, or academics, walk off the map of the land of the rational when it comes to Orange Dude.

In contrast to those silly scientists your QAnon conspiracy theories are models of rationality that would make Euclid proud.  

And unlike some I am not ashamed to sign this with my real name, I'm assuming it doesn't say "Spudboy100" on your driver's license and is not the name you put on your tax returns.

John K Clark

[spudb...@aol.com]

Well, here is an article of Joe's net worth.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/1677200/joe-biden-net-worth/

He didn't get his 9 mil being a nice guy. Secondly, Donny cut Trade with China, because the US was getting screwed over. No democrat would have ever done this, because the democratic politicians get paid by companies that fund the democratic party $$$. We have Hunter's laptop, but you just follow the MONEY and the actions and nobody of your party would ever advocate not kissing the hand of the Uigher-murdering, Communist Party China. 

-----Original Message-----
From: John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com>
To: spudb...@aol.com
Cc: everyth...@googlegroups.com <everyth...@googlegroups.com>

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.

[spudb...@aol.com]

Again, I have never seen QANON, because I unlike you NY Times, don't hold "secret sources" as anything close to being true or even existing. Your DNC associates (democratic agit-props with a byline) seem to do this a lot with their "sources." Now if what you presented is true--I say Peach any politician including The Donald, who betrays the US to Xi's Communist Party. Moreover, I say the same for your democrat lovelies, who take cash from Xi, or who take money from sell-outs like, say Apple's Tim Cook. 

The US middle class has suffered under the regime of globalist presidents who have seen the Uigher-murdering Communist Party of China as benign, or irrelevant to their own careers. I submit that the world has moved on, not because the US politicians have moved on, but because Comrade Xi has decided that going to the right of Mao, into say a WW2 Japanese mentality, is a good move. You do acknowledge that both Putin and Xi have hypersonic 1st strike missiles aimed at the US, or don't you? 

-----Original Message-----
From: John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com>
To: spudb...@aol.com
Cc: everyth...@googlegroups.com <everyth...@googlegroups.com>

[PGC]

Be that as it may not be, your posts over the years + how the Supreme racist tweets, Borat nailed it in 2006:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ghB0mBugww

That's all of Spud's posts and questions, summarized in 4 minutes. PGC    

[spudb...@aol.com]

I feel the US for security and employment reasons, it would be better off decoupling from a existentially hostile totalitarian regime, and I presume by your statement, you think that as long as Joe and his cohorts get bennies, all is well? Do you also believe in Joe's secret and unknown plan for covid as well, sans, advances in medical treatment and an effective vaccine? Interesting. 

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[PGC]

That's cheese. 

Any effective plan would be hard to be fully known or articulated for a reason: we're still learning about the threat as we move forward, with data being interpreted, scrutinized, and evaluated daily in a way that make continuous course corrections necessary. People will criticize this as inconsistency and "not having a real plan", as you and supreme maniac do. A good plan in situations this dynamic with so much risk and unknowns can't be expressed in Tweet format for everybody to digest in a second.

But silencing scientists that dare to contradict political narratives that normalize doing nothing and raising infection risk is criminal... but it's not like that's news. See Lawrence's image concerning corruption. A plan, even a vague one, means hope becomes possible. No plan is misanthropic and helpless. PGC

[John Clark]

On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 7:07 PM spudboy100 via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> you think that as long as Joe and his cohorts get bennies, all is well? 

I have no idea because I don't know if one should want to get "bennies" or get rid of "bennies", unless you mean tablets of Benzedrine in which case it would be better to get rid of "bennies" because amphetamines can harm your physical and mental health.

 John K Clark

[spudb...@aol.com]

Orange dude is funding so much stuff now, that from a research point of view he is flooding pharma and especially academia with research grant$. On the other hand, treating scientists who politicize their own work is something I personally hate. My contention is, that it doesn't matter of one is a cutting edge physicist, but if their politics corrupts their research, they need to spotlighted. I have seen this in action with climate scientists, many of whom have claimed that there is too late to do anything, and I tell you I have read this. These climatologists appear to me to want governmental control, of which they become a part of, to dominate the rest of us-in order to save the "earth." 

What is my fix for climate? Glad you asked. I would go bigtime via solar, (if possible) windpower at sea (if possible) and safer uranium and thorium fission (if possible), and also if the MIT SPARC or Lattice fusion, or Heirich Hora's lasers, or-anything that works well, and provides the abundance that humanity needs. Politicized scientists often lead to gene/race fanatics, or Lysenko, or Mao's Great Leap Forward 1958-60, which killed 45 million Han. The birds insects crop thing. 

"Ok genius, what about abortion!" I'd change abortion practices to this (if possible) -

https://www.tue.nl/en/research/research-groups/cardiovascular-biomechanics/artificial-womb/

Covid? Looks like we might be more successful with treatment of covid in live patients then a vaccine, but that is just my guess. 

Those who choose politics over science have some other game in mind as in the statement from former mayor of Chicago and Obama's chief spokesman Rahm Emanuel: "Never let a good crisis go to waste." Meaning screw fixes, lets milk this. 

https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/bc7ec075-e841-455d-b0ab-8dcffeb8e36fn%40googlegroups.com

.

[spudb...@aol.com]

Bennies, being the slang term for benefits. John, I take it that you are not a Hep Cat (not to be confused with high energy protons)?

-----Original Message-----
From: John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com>
To: everyth...@googlegroups.com
Cc: multipl...@gmail.com <multipl...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thu, Oct 29, 2020 7:32 am
Subject: Re: This is the man who says he found Hunter Biden's laptop

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.

[PGC]

On Friday, October 30, 2020 at 2:43:13 AM UTC+1 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

Orange dude is funding so much stuff now, that from a research point of view he is flooding pharma and especially academia with research grant$.

What- with his 750$ tax payment?

 

On the other hand, treating scientists who politicize their own work is something I personally hate. My contention is, that it doesn't matter of one is a cutting edge physicist, but if their politics corrupts their research, they need to spotlighted. I have seen this in action with climate scientists, many of whom have claimed that there is too late to do anything, and I tell you I have read this. These climatologists appear to me to want governmental control, of which they become a part of, to dominate the rest of us-in order to save the "earth." 

Yes, they are a kind of new jew, but instead of money they make it about the earth and living free from "toxins". 

 

What is my fix for climate? Glad you asked.

I didn't so it cheese again + why should there even be a fix when nothing is broke and you just implied yourself that saving the "earth" is just a scam?

 

I would go bigtime via solar, (if possible) windpower at sea (if possible) and safer uranium and thorium fission (if possible), and also if the MIT SPARC or Lattice fusion, or Heirich Hora's lasers, or-anything that works well,

Cheese and your patented "anything that works well" approach again. You know you'll win prizes for this, right? Why not approach some scientists outside of this list and tell us of your heroic tales and deeds?

 

and provides the abundance that humanity needs. Politicized scientists often lead to gene/race fanatics, or Lysenko, or Mao's Great Leap Forward 1958-60, which killed 45 million Han. The birds insects crop thing. 

"Ok genius, what about abortion!" I'd change abortion practices to this (if possible) -

https://www.tue.nl/en/research/research-groups/cardiovascular-biomechanics/artificial-womb/

And then force the baby to live with mothers of children from rape scenarios or to live with children they cannot support/afford to live with, because god wanted it like that. I'm sure your internet research will contribute to the fruition of that technology.

 

Covid? Looks like we might be more successful with treatment of covid in live patients then a vaccine, but that is just my guess. 

As we can see via the abrupt end of people dying from the disease. Nobody is dying. It's all fake news. Just go check your local hospital.

 

Those who choose politics over science have some other game in mind as in the statement from former mayor of Chicago and Obama's chief spokesman Rahm Emanuel: "Never let a good crisis go to waste." Meaning screw fixes, lets milk this.

For example, if the liberal science guys say they are concerned with "social distance" to limit transmission paths and break infection chains, it's obvious that they only want to stop us from rallying indoors with our supreme leader. Those eggheads want to stop us from partying with their "science". Totally milking this. Yeah thank goodness of Jesus Christ the savior, for the fact that decent people like republicans, yours truly, and yourself... we'd never do that.  PGC

[John Clark]

On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 1:08 AM <spudb...@aol.com> wrote:

> Bennies, being the slang term for benefits. John, I take it that you are not a Hep Cat

No I'm not a Hep-Cat daddy-o, I'm a square I'm not tubular, I'm not the bees knees. I guess that's why I'm not amused by your constant use of cutie pie slang and half the time I don't know if I agree or disagree with you because I don't know what the hell you're talking about. But I can understand why you do it, if your logical argument is fundamentally flawed then clarity of expression is not your friend.  

John K Clark  

[spudb...@aol.com]

Saving the earth is a scam if what somebody recommends won't work. If I promise that nuclear will save us all, and it doesn't makes me either ill-informed or a deliberate scam artist to gain political power. My suspicion is that it isn't a direct scam, but a real phenomena that will affect everyone eventually. How soon and how bad are always left to the public imagination. This is what global warming becomes global heating becomes climate change. You want me to rush to defend anti-abortionists so your amygdala can be happy? My reco is look into artificial wombs. You want a stable climate? R&D on energy. You want 4 more years of orange man? Your peeps in the streets doing riots and arson is how you get 4 more years of Don.

-----Original Message-----
From: PGC <multipl...@gmail.com>
To: Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Oct 30, 2020 8:02 am
Subject: Re: This is the man who says he found Hunter Biden's laptop

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[spudb...@aol.com]

Fundamentally flawed, sans, reasons, are identical to "systematic racisms," with solid example. You are the most politicized person on this list and your passions seem to have no cause and effect, as it were. You agitate for continuous complaining, yet, for doing critical thinking, you never propose solutions, fixes, or any amelioration. Hence, you are a man, not of constant sorrow as the tune goes, but of outrage. For me, outrage has rarely achieved anything, but perhaps it has shaped your life in a rewarding manner?

-----Original Message-----
From: John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com>
To: spudb...@aol.com
Cc: everyth...@googlegroups.com <everyth...@googlegroups.com>; multipl...@gmail.com <multipl...@gmail.com>
Sent: Fri, Oct 30, 2020 8:36 am
Subject: Re: This is the man who says he found Hunter Biden's laptop

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.

[PGC]

On Saturday, October 31, 2020 at 3:00:11 AM UTC+1 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

Saving the earth is a scam if what somebody recommends won't work. If I promise that nuclear will save us all, and it doesn't makes me either ill-informed or a deliberate scam artist to gain political power. My suspicion is that it isn't a direct scam, but a real phenomena that will affect everyone eventually. How soon and how bad are always left to the public imagination. This is what global warming becomes global heating becomes climate change. You want me to rush to defend anti-abortionists so your amygdala can be happy? My reco is look into artificial wombs. You want a stable climate? R&D on energy. You want 4 more years of orange man? Your peeps in the streets doing riots and arson is how you get 4 more years of Don.

There are no "my peeps" or "your peeps". That's what simplistic propagandistic disinformation will have readers believe to amplify engagement. Racist content has enormous engagement capacity. And it's always easier to believe the loud, blaring oversimplifications than sit down and engage with what we don't know and therefore learn the hard and slow way, adapting to a changing world, working on ourselves... instead of cherry picking content/data to validate pre-existing prejudice to self-flatter ourselves.

4 more years of Don, so what? Like people should be frightened lol? I'm ok looking in the mirror, warts and all. All people can adapt and change. Maybe at some point you'll mature to the point where ideological content, identity propaganda and existential prejudice, scapegoating other groups, the comforting clarity of conspiracy theories, boredom with personal delusions etc. will no longer convince you and turn you towards actual policy and their implementation. No "my peeps" and "your peeps". There are just people, who's needs are quite similar. PGC 

[Brent Meeker]

On 10/30/2020 8:17 PM, PGC wrote:
> There are just people, who's needs are quite similar. PGC

But their "wants" may be quite different.  Hence the need for tolerance.

Brent

[spudb...@aol.com]

For a long time to come, the middle class would do well, to retain the current status of the US, as a nation-state, rather than some alternative, that is never explained, by the progressives. They just know what they hate, and what they hate is the rest of us, those who identify as Americans as opposed to citizens of the world. The middle class is increasingly oppressed by the globalists, the ruling class that fund both parties, in an exchange of campaign donations, for favorable treatment, regulations, and laws from the paying corporations. This is a class war unlike what Engel's and Marx dreamed of. I would say that the trend of human history is now, not in favor of globalism, because of its predatory treatment of the middle class, thus, making it on the wrong side of history. For example, Sony's funding of BLM seems disingenuous to the extreme, and the board of directors, Sony, definitively, have zero to do, much, with their paying customers. So what is really going on here? Whatever it is, the result will never be a redress of legitimate grievances, but rather the exacerbation of extremist actions.  

-----Original Message-----
From: PGC <multipl...@gmail.com>
To: Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Oct 30, 2020 11:17 pm
Subject: Re: This is the man who says he found Hunter Biden's laptop

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[John Clark]

On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 10:05 PM <spudb...@aol.com> wrote:

> you never propose solutions, fixes, or any amelioration. Hence, you are a man, not of constant sorrow as the tune goes, but of outrage.

Says the man whose predominant emotion seems to be an intense hatred of Vikings, or maybe it was Attila the Hun or communists I forget. As for fixing the situation it can start on Tuesday by voting out a congenital liar and world class imbecile; although even if he loses the election in a landslide, since there are millions of MAGA Hatter Zombies like you running around, he may remain in power long after January 20, 2021, he may remain in power until the day he dies. And after that would come Don Junior.

John K Clark

[PGC]

By now a significant if not dominant number of these wants has been manipulated into delegitimizing the very premise on which their voting power is based. Tolerating it? No choice at this point, but it's apologism applied to Nazis and other authoritarians. There is no moderation in essentially robbing the weaker majority for some hallucinatory national benefit. PGC

[PGC]

On Saturday, October 31, 2020 at 5:20:08 AM UTC+1 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

For a long time to come, the middle class would do well, to retain the current status of the US, as a nation-state, rather than some alternative, that is never explained, by the progressives. They just know what they hate, and what they hate is the rest of us, those who identify as Americans as opposed to citizens of the world. The middle class is increasingly oppressed by the globalists, the ruling class that fund both parties, in an exchange of campaign donations, for favorable treatment, regulations, and laws from the paying corporations. This is a class war unlike what Engel's and Marx dreamed of.

The class terminology you employ was essentially forged by Marx and no, he actually did see the paradox of a class of owners that would constantly be incentivized to push down real labor costs/salaries in the face of relatively stable production costs in the name of holy profits. The constant increasing robbery and the myriads of crises that this state of affairs entails, which all end up benefiting upper classes; each and every time... that's their basic argument. 

 

I would say that the trend of human history is now, not in favor of globalism, because of its predatory treatment of the middle class, thus, making it on the wrong side of history. For example, Sony's funding of BLM seems disingenuous to the extreme, and the board of directors, Sony, definitively, have zero to do, much, with their paying customers. So what is really going on here? Whatever it is, the result will never be a redress of legitimate grievances, but rather the exacerbation of extremist actions. 

As long as working and middle classes stay focused on blame games, listen to authoritarians, dabble in racism, stumbling from one crises into the next... the "globalists" as you call them, will keep winning. Part of my generation by now has grown adaptive enough to swim along with whatever everybody seems to want. Want racism and authoritarians? Fine, we'll adapt. Want UBI and working class empowerment? We can do that too... but we're not betting y'all have the balls. We don't have the balls to agree on pandemic survival without falling for the sirens of transparent disinformation, so tackling class seems quite the tall order and on the verge of laughable. PGC

[Lawrence Crowell]

I guess I have to respond to this nonsense. The American middle class was at its apex in the 1950-80 period when the New Deal programs were at their most robust, the WWII was over and the American economy hummed along soundly with high taxation rates on the wealthy and corporations. I has been since the time of Reaganomics and the onward march into the right winged reality that things have become more uncertain and income gaps have yawned. CEOs of corporations have had a 3500% income growth while those in the middle class have seen a modest 10% growth and those at the bottom have fallen off into negative territory. The class warfare did not start because of some lurch into the far left and Marxism. 

BTW, what is being called radical socialism by the GOP is really just plain centrist stuff a few decades ago.

Very few people are talking about Marxism. Even Sanders' socialism is far removed from Eugene Debs socialism of 100 to 110 years ago. Sanders really fits somewhere in the average leftist political party in Europe. The Democratic Party is really a very centrist party, even a bit center right. 

I wish before people invoked Karl Marx that they would actually take the time to read something of his. The Communist Manifesto is an interesting read, and curiously you might find yourself shaking your head in some agreement. Marx wrote about the fetishization of money or capital, and Wall Street with its myriad gimmicks from computerized microtrades to short selling and pre-trading are perfect cases of this. Marx wrote about how more of life is becoming a market sector, and today so much of life is a market activity. We have lost so many skill people had. Even with computers, people write programs less and less. It goes on. Marx's solution to things is a social metaphysics based on Hegel's dialectics. The dialectic of capital and labor was seen by him as producing a synthesis. This part, mostly in Das Kapital, is dubious. Also Das Kapital is complicated and confusing thing. I only got 50 pages into the first volume. You can skip this.

I am not a Marxist, nor am I a believer in capitalism. In my minor in philosophy I found the worldly philosophers the least interesting, which includes both Marx and Smith. These ideologies are a matter of opinion, not logic. I refrain from delving into silly things that ultimately involve opinion, which to a degree is politics.

Physics suggests that we should be prudent with the use of energy. Does this prove that we must conserve energy? David Hume argued that saying some state of affairs that “IS” does not logically imply an “OUGHT.” This is the “is-ought” fallacy. It is not hard to prove this within the context of modal logic, but I will skip that for now. So, principles of physics offer up the second law of thermodynamics, which tells us that given thermal energy we wish to convert to mechanical energy, we can only do so with some fraction of that. Some of this goes into internal energy that is a bounded or unavailable form of energy. This does suggest that maybe some care is needed in using energy and resources. It does not prove this. Much the same can be said of global warming or other things. It may be wise to behave in some accord with what we learn, but there is no proof of this. Whether to do so or not is about opinion, and this where we get into the muddy field of politics.

For this reason I do not become particularly angry if someone tells me they accept global warming as real science, but think we really do not need to do anything about it. At least that is an opinion honestly expressed. If on the other hand people try to say it is fake-science and all a hoax and so forth, that gets my anger level up. The reason is because it is a lie, and this lie is being expressed to convince other people of it. My general sense of opinions of this form is based on what I see according to empathy and a sense of my connectedness to others. For that reason I have liberal proclivities. For those who dismiss these things and think everything should be economic, well that is an opinion and I can accept that. I might disagree with it and they disagree with me, but at least these can be expressed without overt lying.

LC

[Brent Meeker]

On 10/31/2020 4:21 PM, Lawrence Crowell wrote:

I guess I have to respond to this nonsense. The American middle class was at its apex in the 1950-80 period when the New Deal programs were at their most robust, the WWII was over and the American economy hummed along soundly with high taxation rates on the wealthy and corporations. I has been since the time of Reaganomics and the onward march into the right winged reality that things have become more uncertain and income gaps have yawned. CEOs of corporations have had a 3500% income growth while those in the middle class have seen a modest 10% growth and those at the bottom have fallen off into negative territory. The class warfare did not start because of some lurch into the far left and Marxism. 

BTW, what is being called radical socialism by the GOP is really just plain centrist stuff a few decades ago.

Very few people are talking about Marxism. Even Sanders' socialism is far removed from Eugene Debs socialism of 100 to 110 years ago. Sanders really fits somewhere in the average leftist political party in Europe. The Democratic Party is really a very centrist party, even a bit center right. 

I wish before people invoked Karl Marx that they would actually take the time to read something of his. The Communist Manifesto is an interesting read, and curiously you might find yourself shaking your head in some agreement. Marx wrote about the fetishization of money or capital, and Wall Street with its myriad gimmicks from computerized microtrades to short selling and pre-trading are perfect cases of this. Marx wrote about how more of life is becoming a market sector, and today so much of life is a market activity. We have lost so many skill people had. Even with computers, people write programs less and less. It goes on. Marx's solution to things is a social metaphysics based on Hegel's dialectics. The dialectic of capital and labor was seen by him as producing a synthesis. This part, mostly in Das Kapital, is dubious. Also Das Kapital is complicated and confusing thing. I only got 50 pages into the first volume. You can skip this.

I am not a Marxist, nor am I a believer in capitalism. In my minor in philosophy I found the worldly philosophers the least interesting, which includes both Marx and Smith. These ideologies are a matter of opinion, not logic. I refrain from delving into silly things that ultimately involve opinion, which to a degree is politics.

Physics suggests that we should be prudent with the use of energy. Does this prove that we must conserve energy? David Hume argued that saying some state of affairs that “IS” does not logically imply an “OUGHT.” This is the “is-ought” fallacy. It is not hard to prove this within the context of modal logic, but I will skip that for now.

It's not so fallacious as Hume thought in the real world though.  If your "oughts" are inconsistent with what "is" you're likely to go extinct (e.g. consider any cult whose "oughts" include drinking Kool-aid).

So, principles of physics offer up the second law of thermodynamics, which tells us that given thermal energy we wish to convert to mechanical energy, we can only do so with some fraction of that. Some of this goes into internal energy that is a bounded or unavailable form of energy. This does suggest that maybe some care is needed in using energy and resources. It does not prove this. Much the same can be said of global warming or other things. It may be wise to behave in some accord with what we learn, but there is no proof of this. Whether to do so or not is about opinion, and this where we get into the muddy field of politics.

For this reason I do not become particularly angry if someone tells me they accept global warming as real science, but think we really do not need to do anything about it. At least that is an opinion honestly expressed. If on the other hand people try to say it is fake-science and all a hoax and so forth, that gets my anger level up. The reason is because it is a lie, and this lie is being expressed to convince other people of it. My general sense of opinions of this form is based on what I see according to empathy and a sense of my connectedness to others. For that reason I have liberal proclivities. For those who dismiss these things and think everything should be economic, well that is an opinion and I can accept that.

But purely transactional, economic relations are inconsistent with the fact that humans are social animals and live and die by social organization.

Brent
"No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were: any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."
    --- John Donne, 1623 Nunc Lento Sonitu Dicunt, Morieris

I might disagree with it and they disagree with me, but at least these can be expressed without overt lying.

LC

On Friday, October 30, 2020 at 11:20:08 PM UTC-5 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

For a long time to come, the middle class would do well, to retain the current status of the US, as a nation-state, rather than some alternative, that is never explained, by the progressives. They just know what they hate, and what they hate is the rest of us, those who identify as Americans as opposed to citizens of the world. The middle class is increasingly oppressed by the globalists, the ruling class that fund both parties, in an exchange of campaign donations, for favorable treatment, regulations, and laws from the paying corporations. This is a class war unlike what Engel's and Marx dreamed of. I would say that the trend of human history is now, not in favor of globalism, because of its predatory treatment of the middle class, thus, making it on the wrong side of history. For example, Sony's funding of BLM seems disingenuous to the extreme, and the board of directors, Sony, definitively, have zero to do, much, with their paying customers. So what is really going on here? Whatever it is, the result will never be a redress of legitimate grievances, but rather the exacerbation of extremist actions.  

-----Original Message-----
From: PGC <multipl..@gmail.com>
To: Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Oct 30, 2020 11:17 pm
Subject: Re: This is the man who says he found Hunter Biden's laptop

On Saturday, October 31, 2020 at 3:00:11 AM UTC+1 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

Saving the earth is a scam if what somebody recommends won't work. If I promise that nuclear will save us all, and it doesn't makes me either ill-informed or a deliberate scam artist to gain political power. My suspicion is that it isn't a direct scam, but a real phenomena that will affect everyone eventually. How soon and how bad are always left to the public imagination. This is what global warming becomes global heating becomes climate change. You want me to rush to defend anti-abortionists so your amygdala can be happy? My reco is look into artificial wombs. You want a stable climate? R&D on energy. You want 4 more years of orange man? Your peeps in the streets doing riots and arson is how you get 4 more years of Don.

There are no "my peeps" or "your peeps". That's what simplistic propagandistic disinformation will have readers believe to amplify engagement. Racist content has enormous engagement capacity. And it's always easier to believe the loud, blaring oversimplifications than sit down and engage with what we don't know and therefore learn the hard and slow way, adapting to a changing world, working on ourselves... instead of cherry picking content/data to validate pre-existing prejudice to self-flatter ourselves.

4 more years of Don, so what? Like people should be frightened lol? I'm ok looking in the mirror, warts and all. All people can adapt and change. Maybe at some point you'll mature to the point where ideological content, identity propaganda and existential prejudice, scapegoating other groups, the comforting clarity of conspiracy theories, boredom with personal delusions etc. will no longer convince you and turn you towards actual policy and their implementation. No "my peeps" and "your peeps". There are just people, who's needs are quite similar. PGC 

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[Lawrence Crowell]

On Saturday, October 31, 2020 at 8:25:34 PM UTC-5 Brent wrote:

On 10/31/2020 4:21 PM, Lawrence Crowell wrote:

I guess I have to respond to this nonsense. The American middle class was at its apex in the 1950-80 period when the New Deal programs were at their most robust, the WWII was over and the American economy hummed along soundly with high taxation rates on the wealthy and corporations. I has been since the time of Reaganomics and the onward march into the right winged reality that things have become more uncertain and income gaps have yawned. CEOs of corporations have had a 3500% income growth while those in the middle class have seen a modest 10% growth and those at the bottom have fallen off into negative territory. The class warfare did not start because of some lurch into the far left and Marxism. 

BTW, what is being called radical socialism by the GOP is really just plain centrist stuff a few decades ago.

Very few people are talking about Marxism. Even Sanders' socialism is far removed from Eugene Debs socialism of 100 to 110 years ago. Sanders really fits somewhere in the average leftist political party in Europe. The Democratic Party is really a very centrist party, even a bit center right. 

I wish before people invoked Karl Marx that they would actually take the time to read something of his. The Communist Manifesto is an interesting read, and curiously you might find yourself shaking your head in some agreement. Marx wrote about the fetishization of money or capital, and Wall Street with its myriad gimmicks from computerized microtrades to short selling and pre-trading are perfect cases of this. Marx wrote about how more of life is becoming a market sector, and today so much of life is a market activity. We have lost so many skill people had. Even with computers, people write programs less and less. It goes on. Marx's solution to things is a social metaphysics based on Hegel's dialectics. The dialectic of capital and labor was seen by him as producing a synthesis. This part, mostly in Das Kapital, is dubious. Also Das Kapital is complicated and confusing thing. I only got 50 pages into the first volume. You can skip this.

I am not a Marxist, nor am I a believer in capitalism. In my minor in philosophy I found the worldly philosophers the least interesting, which includes both Marx and Smith. These ideologies are a matter of opinion, not logic. I refrain from delving into silly things that ultimately involve opinion, which to a degree is politics.

Physics suggests that we should be prudent with the use of energy. Does this prove that we must conserve energy? David Hume argued that saying some state of affairs that “IS” does not logically imply an “OUGHT.” This is the “is-ought” fallacy. It is not hard to prove this within the context of modal logic, but I will skip that for now.

It's not so fallacious as Hume thought in the real world though.  If your "oughts" are inconsistent with what "is" you're likely to go extinct (e.g. consider any cult whose "oughts" include drinking Kool-aid).

It is still not a matter of deductive logic. There can be an inductive thinking. Hume showed that causality is not something derived as a matter of logic, but is an inductive assessment of observations. Some oughts are similar. I can understand the physics of collisions and momentum transfer. I can make the inference that crossing a street is something to be done with caution. Caution is not something that is derived from Newton's laws. With more complex issues, such as global warming, it may be debatable whether reducing carbon emissions will render our situation more tolerable. I think, and data appears to support that, the heating of the environment is making situation less acceptable. Whether or not doing something about this will render our situation more acceptable is less certain.

 

So, principles of physics offer up the second law of thermodynamics, which tells us that given thermal energy we wish to convert to mechanical energy, we can only do so with some fraction of that. Some of this goes into internal energy that is a bounded or unavailable form of energy. This does suggest that maybe some care is needed in using energy and resources. It does not prove this. Much the same can be said of global warming or other things. It may be wise to behave in some accord with what we learn, but there is no proof of this. Whether to do so or not is about opinion, and this where we get into the muddy field of politics.

For this reason I do not become particularly angry if someone tells me they accept global warming as real science, but think we really do not need to do anything about it. At least that is an opinion honestly expressed. If on the other hand people try to say it is fake-science and all a hoax and so forth, that gets my anger level up. The reason is because it is a lie, and this lie is being expressed to convince other people of it. My general sense of opinions of this form is based on what I see according to empathy and a sense of my connectedness to others. For that reason I have liberal proclivities. For those who dismiss these things and think everything should be economic, well that is an opinion and I can accept that.

But purely transactional, economic relations are inconsistent with the fact that humans are social animals and live and die by social organization.

Brent
"No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were: any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."
    --- John Donne, 1623 Nunc Lento Sonitu Dicunt, Morieris

Then again, the libertarian types might argue that all social interactions are in the end transactional and economic. These political types are good at coming up with infuriating come-back arguments.

LC

[John Clark]

On Sun, Nov 1, 2020 at 5:37 AM Lawrence Crowell <goldenfield...@gmail.com> wrote:

> the libertarian types might argue that all social interactions are in the end transactional and economic. These political types are good at coming up with infuriating come-back arguments.

For most of my life I called myself a libertarian, but after the idiotic behavior of the Libertarian party in 2016 and the subsequent antics of those who call themselves libertarian but are really MAGA Hatter Zombies the word has become so polluted that I'm going to need to find a new term to describe my political leanings. I don't want anybody to think I have any sympathy for those silly morons.

John K Clark

[PGC]

On Sunday, November 1, 2020 at 2:25:34 AM UTC+1 Brent wrote:

On 10/31/2020 4:21 PM, Lawrence Crowell wrote:

For this reason I do not become particularly angry if someone tells me they accept global warming as real science, but think we really do not need to do anything about it. At least that is an opinion honestly expressed. If on the other hand people try to say it is fake-science and all a hoax and so forth, that gets my anger level up. The reason is because it is a lie, and this lie is being expressed to convince other people of it. My general sense of opinions of this form is based on what I see according to empathy and a sense of my connectedness to others. For that reason I have liberal proclivities. For those who dismiss these things and think everything should be economic, well that is an opinion and I can accept that.

The reason it is difficult to dismiss global warming is the assumption that science, our descriptions of nature in particular, and culture can be neatly separated. Popular, scientific, specialist, and political discourses are entangled to such a degree that such separations appear artificial and unsuccessful. If you can point towards literature and/or bodies of thought that accomplish such a feat, say in some sociological or political approach, please share.  

But purely transactional, economic relations are inconsistent with the fact that humans are social animals and live and die by social organization.

Brent
"No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were: any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."
    --- John Donne, 1623 Nunc Lento Sonitu Dicunt, Morieris

The individual in the Hobbesian view relates that one individual wants what another has, with both in a territorial dispute over the same things, justifying the competition to pursue their selfish ends to establish rights to property, nature, and social dominance. With Rousseau, the state of nature is a powerful fiction that arises out of what Marx called "political economy". Jean Starobinski on Rousseau posits one individual in this scene: the self-sufficient, without dependency, saturated in self-love yet without any need for another. 

Marx attacked this part of the state of nature hypothesis that establishes the individual as primary; in Economic and Philosophic Manuscripts of 1844 he employs Robinson Crusoe irony of placing ourselves in a "fictive primordial state like a political economist trying to clarify things... We proceed from a present fact of political economy". 

Conceptions of the individual can be fruitfully questioned as to what can or cannot be imagined. The subject would make a nice book; particularly trying to compare and contrast these conceptions from antique to present with the conceptions that authoritarians imply, and weighing the evidence that such conceptions are a mere inconsistent propagandistic-opportunistic prop, or whether something more stable is emerging in the world of information age discourse in the wake of our most recent streak of electing supposedly strong men. PGC

[PGC]

Against those infuriating come-back arguments with a pandemic as backdrop, I'd argue "Life. We need to redefine some priorities and conceptions here. For better economics, survival is necessary. If it isn't, and economic considerations come first, you'll have to justify to me who gets to go and who gets to stay + by which reasoning and assumptions." PGC

[Lawrence Crowell]

On Sunday, November 1, 2020 at 6:15:46 AM UTC-6 PGC wrote:

On Sunday, November 1, 2020 at 2:25:34 AM UTC+1 Brent wrote:

On 10/31/2020 4:21 PM, Lawrence Crowell wrote:

For this reason I do not become particularly angry if someone tells me they accept global warming as real science, but think we really do not need to do anything about it. At least that is an opinion honestly expressed. If on the other hand people try to say it is fake-science and all a hoax and so forth, that gets my anger level up. The reason is because it is a lie, and this lie is being expressed to convince other people of it. My general sense of opinions of this form is based on what I see according to empathy and a sense of my connectedness to others. For that reason I have liberal proclivities. For those who dismiss these things and think everything should be economic, well that is an opinion and I can accept that.

The reason it is difficult to dismiss global warming is the assumption that science, our descriptions of nature in particular, and culture can be neatly separated. Popular, scientific, specialist, and political discourses are entangled to such a degree that such separations appear artificial and unsuccessful. If you can point towards literature and/or bodies of thought that accomplish such a feat, say in some sociological or political approach, please share.  

I am not referencing anything in the sociology field. I really do not know a lot about that. I am just making some distinction. If science tells you about impacts and transfer of momentum you might infer that caution is advised in crossing a street with traffic. It is not that Newtonian mechanics proves anything about safety. It would agree that these inferences can be wise or unwise.

LC

[spudb...@aol.com]

Well, I don' dismiss pass enemies as permanently defeated as you do. If your team wins, you can and will crow about winning and claim that Don is an imbecile. The Supreme Court will likely decide this election, as the estimated loser will challenge. 

-----Original Message-----
From: John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com>
To: spudb...@aol.com
Cc: everyth...@googlegroups.com <everyth...@googlegroups.com>; multipl...@gmail.com <multipl...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sat, Oct 31, 2020 6:57 am
Subject: Re: This is the man who says he found Hunter Biden's laptop

[spudb...@aol.com]

Machine intelligence will decide if there is to be a middle class worldwide in the coming years. Until then, I don't see it advantageous for the country to send jobs overseas, bring in say, IT workers to replace US citizens which I have experienced. The Parties have long been on the food chain to the corporations, because it takes billions nowadays to run for office and win seats. Marx and Hume have little weight in modern times, despite their insights. Right now, de facto, we have corporations funding the BLMTifa, and BLMTifa actions in democrat ruled zones, so what middle America now faces is a Junta of globalists, and yes, street stalinists. Not a good thing in my estimation. 

https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/07ad9032-f666-4209-854f-a5721bd82552n%40googlegroups.com

.

[spudb...@aol.com]

We can do lots of reco's but first one must acknowledge who wields power? Both parties are now almost completely funded by the corporations, in order to win elections. So, in manner the US is an effective oligarchy. If one contends that billionaires only fund the reps, then it's selective view of the world can be proven wrong, quickly. In Animal Farm fashion, the sheep bah-out, "rep billionaires baaaad, dem billionaires baaaattter," or more properly, it never get acknowledged by dem faithful. Eventually, all this will change with automation doing all work, like robots, and GPT-x filing lawsuits or defending their clients before a similarly automated judge. Now how will the rich stay rich with nobody being able to purchase goods and services because, no jobs, or no domestic jobs? 

-----Original Message-----
From: PGC <multipl...@gmail.com>
To: Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Oct 31, 2020 12:42 pm
Subject: Re: This is the man who says he found Hunter Biden's laptop

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[spudb...@aol.com]

There is then, a more nuanced view, that says, Indeed AGW is real, but what shall we do about it? 

Many on the environmentalist side, politicians, academics, activists, the rich, appear to advocate a reduction in energy us (for the masses) perhaps banning cars, (for the masses). Or, if pursuing electric vehicles as a replacement for IC engines, never pause to look at the need for large scale mineral mining, lithium etc. We might be able to push graphene to do job, but I cannot say. Mining too shall have its environmental impact, and it too takes energy to mine and process. Fossil fuel powered equipment, as bulldozers are not yet battery or hydrogen powered. 

https://medium.com/@thinksustainabilityblog/technology-wont-save-us-from-the-climate-emergency-4968190a688f

I, of course, dispute this, and that better energy tech will save us, as this writer and others focus on the "behavioral" side of things. Forget tech, pass laws and regs for the serfs, is this prominent view that gets pushed. My own view (not that it matters) is to go solar, go wind at sea to produce H2,  and perhaps look into mini-nukes if they are safe enough and if they are affordable? 

-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Crowell <goldenfield...@gmail.com>

To: Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 1, 2020 8:58 am
Subject: Re: This is the man who says he found Hunter Biden's laptop

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[Lawrence Crowell]

On Sunday, November 1, 2020 at 8:14:56 AM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

Well, I don' dismiss pass enemies as permanently defeated as you do. If your team wins, you can and will crow about winning and claim that Don is an imbecile. The Supreme Court will likely decide this election, as the estimated loser will challenge. 

At which point I start to triple my efforts to remove myself from USA. Sorry, but if this is a popular vote for Biden, uncertainty with ballots or t'Rump stopping the count and this goes to SCOTUS that throws it to t'Rump I can only say the American Republic is effectively dead. t'Rump will set himself as the American Il Duce and off we go following the path that transitioned the Roman Republic to Empire. 

I really wonder at what point it will be when the bodies start to stack up too high for people like you to ignore. Anne Coulter has said there should be concentration camps for liberals. 

LC

[spudb...@aol.com]

I have wondered about the Roman thing for a while. I have teased liberals on other forums with indicating that whoever wins in 2020 the leader would be called, The Donald, a reference to Caesar. I don't see us as a functional republic, let alone a democracy. This is one of my reasons for caviling the Globalists, the super rich, because they undermine (successfully) freedom, and the economy. The former is exemplified by the the news, FB, Twitter, etc. Also, academia has become hostile to free speech and hungry for censorship. Booking, for warmer climes is not a bad idea, if you feel Ann Coulter is in charge?

 I can guarantee you that she is not a great influential voice among us trumpkins, if you find that somewhat reassuring? The democrat silence about riots and arson is dem ruled cities and states is another matter-but you know where I am going with this.  Meanwhile, despite Coulter mesmerizing us hapless goobers, we have this, early on, from one of the dems, I am suspecting this is not now a minority opinion  given Bernie's big hugs for the briberworthy former Veep. 

 
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/01/14/sanders_campaign_organizer_free_education_gulags_needed_to_re-educate_you_not_to_be_a_fcking_nazi.html

-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Crowell <goldenfield...@gmail.com>
To: Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Sun, Nov 1, 2020 12:00 pm
Subject: Re: This is the man who says he found Hunter Biden's laptop

On Sunday, November 1, 2020 at 8:14:56 AM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

Well, I don' dismiss pass enemies as permanently defeated as you do. If your team wins, you can and will crow about winning and claim that Don is an imbecile. The Supreme Court will likely decide this election, as the estimated loser will challenge. 

At which point I start to triple my efforts to remove myself from USA. Sorry, but if this is a popular vote for Biden, uncertainty with ballots or t'Rump stopping the count and this goes to SCOTUS that throws it to t'Rump I can only say the American Republic is effectively dead. t'Rump will set himself as the American Il Duce and off we go following the path that transitioned the Roman Republic to Empire. 

I really wonder at what point it will be when the bodies start to stack up too high for people like you to ignore. Anne Coulter has said there should be concentration camps for liberals. 

LC

 

-----Original Message-----
From: John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com>
To: spudb...@aol.com
Cc: everyth...@googlegroups.com <everyth...@googlegroups.com>; multipl...@gmail.com <multipl...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sat, Oct 31, 2020 6:57 am
Subject: Re: This is the man who says he found Hunter Biden's laptop

On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 10:05 PM <spudb...@aol.com> wrote:

> you never propose solutions, fixes, or any amelioration. Hence, you are a man, not of constant sorrow as the tune goes, but of outrage.

Says the man whose predominant emotion seems to be an intense hatred of Vikings, or maybe it was Attila the Hun or communists I forget. As for fixing the situation it can start on Tuesday by voting out a congenital liar and world class imbecile; although even if he loses the election in a landslide, since there are millions of MAGA Hatter Zombies like you running around, he may remain in power long after January 20, 2021, he may remain in power until the day he dies. And after that would come Don Junior.

John K Clark

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[Brent Meeker]

On 11/1/2020 2:37 AM, Lawrence Crowell wrote:

On Saturday, October 31, 2020 at 8:25:34 PM UTC-5 Brent wrote:

On 10/31/2020 4:21 PM, Lawrence Crowell wrote:...David Hume argued that saying some state of affairs that “IS” does not logically imply an “OUGHT.” This is the “is-ought” fallacy. It is not hard to prove this within the context of modal logic, but I will skip that for now.

It's not so fallacious as Hume thought in the real world though.  If your "oughts" are inconsistent with what "is" you're likely to go extinct (e.g. consider any cult whose "oughts" include drinking Kool-aid).

It is still not a matter of deductive logic.

It is with the empirically supported premise that one's oughts need to comport with what is.  With that added premise you can deduce that if you exist as a species your oughts do not conflict with what is.  Or put another way, what is constrains oughts.  A simple application would be parents ought not dislike their children.

...

But purely transactional, economic relations are inconsistent with the fact that humans are social animals and live and die by social organization.

Brent
"No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were: any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."
    --- John Donne, 1623 Nunc Lento Sonitu Dicunt, Morieris

Then again, the libertarian types might argue that all social interactions are in the end transactional and economic. These political types are good at coming up with infuriating come-back arguments.

But not at all persuasive, since the larger, more cooperative society/business/army will always prevail over the smaller more individualistic one.

To this point I have been reading, "The Weirdest People in the World" by the anthropologist Joesph Heinz.  It's a book about how culture has shaped psychology and even neurology.  He describes the Matsigenkas people of Peru as having an actual libertarian culture.  They live in nuclear families that are utterly self-reliant.   But a consequence is that they were a source of slaves for more the organized Inca, until the Spaniards came and then they were sold to the Spaniards.

Brent

[Lawrence Crowell]

I guess t'Rump is influential with you. It is reflected in how his nonsensical statements are echoed in your writing that is difficult to make sense of. I suppose this is just a way Homo sapiens will march back to the stone age. 

As I see it the entire tenure of the human race is probably summed up as two stone ages punctuated by a chaotic period we call civilization. The first stone age was in the Pleistocene when the Earth was rich. The next is the Anthropocene when Earth will be depleted and toxic. Remember, nature bats last. Come to think of it, nature owns the ballpark.

LC