和製英語 list - supposedly

[Jim Breen]

The other day someone pointed out the following page which contained a
"和製英語一覧リスト".
https://origamijapan.net/origami/2018/06/01/wasei-english/

I looked at it, hoping to find a few we hadn't recorded. I didn't but
the list contained (as I reported back to the correspondent):
- アンケート, アルバイト, ワクチン, レントゲン, ゲレンデ, etc, which are loanwords from
French and German, and nothing to do with English.
- レンガ, カイロ, etc. which are katakana forms of regular Japanese words (煉瓦, 懐炉)
- many such as リンス, アイドル, which are from English terms, but the
meaning has been somewhat changed in Japanese. They're not actually 和製
(Japanese-made).
- many abbreviations, e.g. アポ from アポイントメント, カーナビ from カーナビゲーションシステム,
etc. That doesn't make them 和製英語.

I wonder whether it is just ignorance on the part of the list
compiler, or has 和製英語 come to mean any odd word in katakana.

Cheers

Jim

--
Jim Breen
Adjunct Snr Research Fellow, Japanese Studies Centre, Monash University
http://www.jimbreen.org/
http://nihongo.monash.edu/

[Ben Bullock]

On Sat, 12 Dec 2020 at 08:28, Jim Breen <jimb...@gmail.com> wrote:

The other day someone pointed out the following page which contained a
"和製英語一覧リスト".
https://origamijapan.net/origami/2018/06/01/wasei-english/

I looked at it, hoping to find a few we hadn't recorded. I didn't but
the list contained (as I reported back to the correspondent):
- アンケート, アルバイト, ワクチン, レントゲン, ゲレンデ, etc, which are loanwords from
French and German, and nothing to do with English.
- レンガ, カイロ, etc. which are katakana forms of regular Japanese words (煉瓦, 懐炉)
- many such as リンス, アイドル, which are from English terms, but the
meaning has been somewhat changed in Japanese. They're not actually 和製
(Japanese-made).
- many abbreviations, e.g. アポ from アポイントメント, カーナビ from カーナビゲーションシステム,
etc.  That doesn't make them 和製英語.

Some of these seem oddly familiar, for example "hot cake" for pancake was one I used to have in the sci.lang.japan FAQ but I think I removed it in the 1990s because some Americans apparently use this terminology.  

Maybe he was aiming more at a "false friends" list.

The katakana=English problem is rather annoying. I have this Japanese friend who just insists on telling me (in English) about his "maron" tree and how many "marons" he got from his "maron" tree this year. No matter how many times I tell him that the English word is "chestnut" it doesn't seem to register. Another person keeps telling me about her "claims", again the English word "complaint" doesn't seem to be one she will use. There is also "claimer" for a fraudster who makes false complaints, but you seem to have that one in your dictionary already. I think that is wasei-eigo, I have not heard it in English. But maybe it comes from that film "Kramer versus Kramer".

[Martin Pfundmair]

Hi Jim,

it might be ignorance. But on the other hand, is there a term for any odd word in katakana? (和製"外国語"? 😅)

Martin

PS: It's my first time chiming in. Please let me know if there's a rule on formatting. Like, whether to put the answer above or below.

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[Jim Breen]

On Sat, 12 Dec 2020 at 11:08, Martin Pfundmair
<martin.p...@gmail.com> wrote:
> it might be ignorance.

I think the purpose of that list, i.e. to warn people not to assume
the katakana "English" term doesn't work in English (a bit like Ben's
"marons"), is fine. The error is to call them all 和製英語.

> But on the other hand, is there a term for any odd word in katakana? (和製"外国語"? )

I'm not aware of a good one. It would be handy to have a dictionary
tag for indicating a loanword didn't mean the same as it does in its
source language. Of course it's not just ex-English terms. アベック and
アルバイト don't mean the same as their French and German source terms.

> PS: It's my first time chiming in. Please let me know if there's a rule on formatting. Like, whether to put the answer above or below.

We don't seem to have any problems with top-posting. I'm an
old-fashioned in-line person.

Jim

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[nurbs1]

In the States, we do indeed use the word "hotcakes."  We also include sentence periods inside of quotes for some reason!

McDonald's uses the term as well.

ワイシャツ comes readily to mind.

Todd 

P.S.  And I do NOT suggest eating like an American!  Unfortunately most of the world is trying to catch up.  :-(

 

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