Streaming for remote viewings

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Declan MacErlane

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Nov 17, 2022, 6:04:46 PM11/17/22
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Hi all,

I hope everyone is good :-)

I’m looking at setting up for some remote grade/online sessions. We will skype/facetime on a laptop but my client will also need to view what I am seeing on my broadcast monitor; although a lower quality but at least equivalent to Netflix.

Does anyone have any experience and recommendations for streaming online pictures to a client in another location?

Ideally something that can be fed from the HDMI output of my blackmagic mini monitor and that I can just sent them a web link to.

Thanks in advance,
Dec

Peter O'Neill

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Nov 17, 2022, 7:54:50 PM11/17/22
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Hi Dec,
This won’t be a direct feed from your monitor, but you can output from your system and stream live.
I know this is more of a switcher/live event broadcast solution, but thought I’d throw it out there.
Of course your end result depends on all involved party's internet speed. Ugggg!




Peter O'Neill



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glenn sakatch

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Nov 18, 2022, 12:02:09 AM11/18/22
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How tech savvy is your client?

I have used the blackmagic streaming bridge. Its a bit of a setup, and unfortunately the setup takes place at the client side, as that is where the bridge has to live, but the picture is amazing, and the delay was less than 1 second.
(Calgary to Edmonton)  The first time I tried it just in town, I thought i was watching my main monitor...the picture was so good.

I have also done YouTube live with a password...quality was fine, but the delay can be 10 to 15 seconds.


My qnap also has a streaming service built into it...again, 10 to 15 sec delay.

Delay is the biggest problem with this.
You are trying to do stuff the client asks for...but they have to wait 10 secs to see the result...and in that time, everything they see is 10 to 15 secs different than what they are expecting to see...and they start questioning if you understand what they are asking for...doesn't matter how many times you say we are 10 seconds apart...it becomes a song and dance to distract them during the lag.

If you are using zoom, why not just route the signal into zoom.  I've done that as well...much better on the delay side.

Unless you know your client has a calibrated monitor...its a guess as to how the picture will look anyway on their setup.

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Declan MacErlane

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Nov 18, 2022, 5:11:02 AM11/18/22
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Thanks Peter and Glenn,

I have been assuming that in order to do this I need a separate hardware to feed the stream from the SDI output. But it seems from both of your emails that I can stream directly from the graphics card? Am I understanding that right?

It needs to be very straight forward for my client, and there will be multiple clients at different times, so I need something where I am supplying them a link and they can click and watch.

The feed needs to be the output of Avid or Resolve, so not screen share. And the quality needs to be good. I am completely unfamiliar with how this is set up. I have done it in the past at a facility for remote viewings but their tech persons set it up and supplied the client with a link. I’m assuming I need to set up a Twitch account, or similar that they can access on their tv via the app. 

Blackmagic Bridge sounds great if I ha only one client but it won’t be feasible as I’ll be in a different state and I may have to do this with different clients on subsequent days. 
Other options sound interesting but 10 seconds delay is too much and will be very difficult to manage as you said Glenn.

I was looking at Blackmagic WebPresenter 4K which looks good but I haven’t found any info about prosumer level. I’d love to ehar from someone using it with broadcast clients. Vmix looks good, but over complex for what I’m trying to do.

Typically this would be going to clients with a broadcast monitor or at least a viewing monitor which they are used to.

Cheers,
Dec

Glenn Sakatch

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Nov 18, 2022, 2:34:04 PM11/18/22
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I have an SDI to HDI convertor.

That feeds a ATEM Mini Pro.  Also being fed by a camera, and a feed from my graphics card.(the graphics card feed allows me to show my desktop, or timeline/NLE interface)

Add a mic into the mixer, and you can pretty much do or show anything to the client.

 

Then the output of the mixer goes to either Zoom or Youtube live. 

(Honestly…trying to remember if YouTube live was fed from OBS…which was fed by the mixer…been a while since I’ve done that one.)

 

(I think the ATEM is needed for the multibridge…but I’d have to check that)

 

By far zoom is the easiest with this setup, and looks quite good, depending on their internet connection.

 

Plus with this setup, I can use a real camera, and am not locked into a crappy webcam.

 

I do have a webpresenter in storage.  (It’s the old version…720 only)  To be honest, it worked fine, but was limited to 720.   Super easy.  Feed an SDI into it, and it turns it into a web cam feed as far as zoom is concerned.  Much the same way that the ATEM mini pro does now, but ATEM allows multiple inputs, and better control over audio sources.

 

I looked into Twitch.  (My kid does a lot of twitching) I was under the impression they don’t allow non gaming stuff on the site…maybe that has changed.  Not sure how private it is either. 

 

That’s always a big concern for clients.  Streaming their unfinished movie, or commercial gets them a bit concerned as to who else might see it.

 

 

 

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Dermot Shane

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Nov 18, 2022, 3:02:06 PM11/18/22
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i have Resolve's "Video Clean Feed" sent to the B side of my scopes mon always, use zoom + share screen for clients, never have to look at it as the scopes are up 100% of the time
 
and hp's remote graphics system for my use -  there's significant issues with it for clients - they need to use your windows credentials / pass to log on



Igor Riđanović

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Nov 28, 2022, 12:55:55 AM11/28/22
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We use Sohonet from Los Angeles with clients in Europe. It's great. In the past we used Makito-X, but Sohonet is way easier to deploy on both ends.

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Declan MacErlane

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Mar 22, 2023, 2:58:03 AM3/22/23
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Thanks for all the replies. Back on this now.

I’ve reached out to Sohonet, and a few others (DaCast, Moxion, vMix). Is Wowza still running?

For HD media (108025p) I was noticing a lot of banding on Twitch at 6Mbs. Is that likely a limitation of 6Mbs bitrate or my wifi (I was uploading and downloading on the same network)?

Cheers,
Dec

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Andi Loor

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Mar 22, 2023, 3:26:19 AM3/22/23
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Banding is to my understanding solely a 8 bit video thing. Not a compression thing. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Andi

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Bob Maple

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Mar 22, 2023, 12:04:37 PM3/22/23
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On 3/22/2023 1:26 AM, Andi Loor wrote:

> Banding is to my understanding solely a 8 bit video thing. Not a
> compression thing. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I can be both, since compression is (among other things) quantizing
pixel blocks to make them smaller thus small variations like skies and
other subtle gradients can get "flattened" across the blocks. 8-bit is
what it is, but if the banding additionally look very blocky it's
bitrate and/or the quality of the compressor (realtime encoders run at
various levels of 'fast' and have to do their best with what they are
given in a short slice of time, and some do a better job than others.)


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| Bob Maple
| Stick it to the NSA - Get my public key at http://burner.com/about/
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| When love is gone, there's always justice. And when justice is gone,
| there's always force. And when force is gone, there's always Mom.
| Hi, Mom! -Laurie Anderson

Brian Bearg

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Mar 22, 2023, 1:50:04 PM3/22/23
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Bob I just love it when you chime in with all that smart stuff.  You da man! And such a pro!

 

B

 

Brian Bearg

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Phone:   541.864.1757

Email:   bbe...@lithia.com

 

 

 

 

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Date: Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 9:04 AM
To: ds-...@googlegroups.com <ds-...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Streaming for remote viewings

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On 3/22/2023 1:26 AM, Andi Loor wrote:

> Banding is to my understanding solely a 8 bit video thing. Not a
> compression thing. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I can be both, since compression is (among other things) quantizing
pixel blocks to make them smaller thus small variations like skies and
other subtle gradients can get "flattened" across the blocks. 8-bit is
what it is, but if the banding additionally look very blocky it's
bitrate and/or the quality of the compressor (realtime encoders run at
various levels of 'fast' and have to do their best with what they are
given in a short slice of time, and some do a better job than others.)


--

|  Bob Maple


|
|  When love is gone, there's always justice.  And when justice is gone,
|  there's always force.  And when force is gone, there's always Mom.
|  Hi, Mom!   -Laurie Anderson

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Declan MacErlane

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Mar 22, 2023, 9:45:43 PM3/22/23
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I think this is what’s happening. I tested on Twitch which limits data to 6Mbs. I’ll double check what’s coming out of the Teradek though, that it’s 10bit.
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Declan MacErlane

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Mar 22, 2023, 9:46:28 PM3/22/23
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Hi Igor,

Which product was it from Sohonet? Was it Fastlane?

Cheers,
Dec


On 28 Nov 2022, at 1:55 pm, Igor Riđanović <ig...@hdhead.com> wrote:

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Igor Riđanović

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Mar 23, 2023, 3:16:32 PM3/23/23
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Sohonet "clearviewFlex." That's what it says on the encoder hardware.

Declan MacErlane

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Mar 23, 2023, 10:29:55 PM3/23/23
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Thanks Igor,
I’m waiting to hear from them. I’m hoping the price comes down and I can use it without their hardware (I already have a Teradek VidiuX) and really I only need a platform to stream onto. But the problem I have is so far Twitch etc limit the bitrate so there are too many compression artifacts. 
Hopefully I’ll get to do some tests this weekend.
Cheers,
Dec


Igor Riđanović

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Mar 31, 2023, 10:03:42 AM3/31/23
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I think the advantage of Sohonet's solution is the simplicity of the interface. My producers can easily setup a job without little technical knowledge. And it's also very simple on the client end. Aside from that there are other streaming options that cost far less but may not be as elegant and simple as Sohonet.

Declan MacErlane

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Apr 30, 2023, 10:00:35 PM4/30/23
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Hi again,

So I’m streaming from Media composer, through Blackmagic mini monitor, then through Teradek VidiuX and testing streaming through Wowza’s Flowplayer. 
Quality is good and latency is very good too (1-2 secs). 

But I’m getting stuttering. They think this is an issue with B-frames. 

This is waaay out of my knowledge. There is no way to turn off b frames with Teradek. I don’t know at which point in the chain they are getting introduced, but it there a way to turn off b frames in Avid, or the Black magic Mini monitor? 

TIA,
Dec

On 23 Mar 2023, at 1:49 am, 'Brian Bearg' via DS-List <ds-...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Bob I just love it when you chime in with all that smart stuff.  You da man! And such a pro!
 
B
 
Brian Bearg
Video Editor
<image001.png>
Phone:   541.864.1757
Email:   bbe...@lithia.com
<image001.png>
 
 

 
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