Bringing some popular must have django tools/packages under django org umbrella

[Asif Saifuddin]

How is the idea? tools like django-debug-toolbar, django-silk, django-taggit, django-filter etc and some more de facto tools under the umbrella of django github org?

Regards

[Collin Anderson]

Hi,

Say a little bit more: What would be the goal? What would you hope would be accomplished by doing this?

Thanks,

Collin

[Asif Saifuddin]

The projects will have the official tool status + the maintainer of the projects will be able to collaborate better with django core team? less risk of being abandoned by the maintainers etc.

IMHO

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[Marc Tamlyn]

This is something the core team discussed in Amsterdam. I believe there was consensus to trial it with Django registration. I should catch up with James and see if it is transferred. If this goes well I see no reason why not.

The biggest problem is the selection of packages, we have historically wanted to avoid too much bikeshedding. Initially it's likely to be mostly relatively inactive small utilities I think. But I think we are open to being more risky here.

M

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[Matías Iturburu]

I recently got stuck upgrading a project to 1.9 due to a lot of useful packages being not maintained:

- django-endless-pagination: a substitute for django-pagination while it didn't had python3 support

- django-taggit-templatetags: from when django-tagging didn't had python3 support.

django-registration was another must have that recently resurfaced but the same situation spawned django-registration-redux.

Would it be too much a hassle to open an django-contrib organization with less friction provide support for orphaned projects?

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Matías Iturburu

http://www.linkedin.com/in/tutuca | http://ltmo.com.ar

[James Pic]

What do you mean stuck? Aren't you supposed to port the packages and submit a patch in that case? How are you stuck ? I know the first portings are hard but once you've ported a dozen it becomes piece of cake so don't be afraid of trying ! And please contribute to the apps !!

I know some people who only open issues and never submit a patch on github, isn't that super annoying?

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[James Pic]

Sorry for to quoting:/

[Matías Iturburu]

2016-03-16 6:24 GMT-03:00 James Pic <jame...@gmail.com>:

What do you mean stuck? Aren't you supposed to port the packages and submit a patch in that case? How are you stuck ?

Alright... I don't know you but no, that doesn't quite work that way. 
Even if I submit a patch I wouldn't be able to:

- Merge it into mainline.

- Upload the patched version to pypi.

So it's a no-starter, I can't rely on my fork, not for production, as I should guarantee that the package it's, at least, as tested as mainline, which usually involves non-trivial infrastructure.

I know the first portings are hard but once you've ported a dozen it becomes piece of cake so don't be afraid of trying ! And please contribute to the apps !!

I know some people who only open issues and never submit a patch on github, isn't that super annoying?

Really? you go around asking users to do the work of maintainers?

 

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[James Pic]

On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 3:22 PM, Matías Iturburu <matu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Even if I submit a patch I wouldn't be able to:
> - Merge it into mainline.
> - Upload the patched version to pypi.
>
> So it's a no-starter,
> I can't rely on my fork, not for production, as I
> should guarantee that the package it's, at least, as tested as mainline,
> which usually involves non-trivial infrastructure.

If I understand correctly, you need a patch, but you don't want to do
it, because you can't have it released right away.

Your work is to have a feature in a project, you want to use an app,
but you don't want to contribute to it. If I understand correctly, you
want volunteers to do the work for you so that you get your project
done and perhaps even get paid, and not give anything in return.

Good patches are quickly merged. If it has tests, and good code
coverage, and supports new versions of Python, I can tell you it's not
going to take long before your patch is merged in most cases.

Otherwise, yeah, just publish your fork on PyPi until it's merged
upstream. I don't see what's the problem here. We've had the case in
django-cities-light were a user implemented Region support, published
it in django-cities-reducedfat or something (lol), and then
contributed upstream, and then we released the contribution in
django-cities-light. What's the issue here ?

>>
>> I know the first portings are hard but once you've ported a dozen it
>> becomes piece of cake so don't be afraid of trying ! And please contribute
>> to the apps !!
>>
>> I know some people who only open issues and never submit a patch on
>> github, isn't that super annoying?
>
> Really? you go around asking users to do the work of maintainers?

I don't understand, what do you mean work ? Are you paying the
maintainers to maintain their projects ? Are you talking about
dual-licensed projects like django-suit where you payed an Enterprise
license for ?

Well what do you prefer, that maintainers shut down a project because
they don't have time or motivation to keep on, or do you prefer that
the project lives on with community support ?

If I understand your logic correctly, you should re-implement the
features you were using from an app in your own project to drop the
dependency on the app that you consider un-maintained. Either way, you
end up doing your job, but if you contribute then it's for everybody,
not just your project.

Seems like "Open Source" doesn't wrok the same in your world and in mine :)

Perhaps if you were maintaining Open Source apps you'd understand. I
don't know if you use any things like torrents, but do you know what
the "leecher" concept is like ? It's when a user downloads and then
doesn't share.

I don't think I have anything to add here, I'm sure more experienced
hackers will find better phrasings than me for this. I may sound
harsh, but really I'm not, I'm just trying to understand how your
logic works and so far it seems broken for me so I'd really like to
understand.

Also, about django-endless-pagination, I tried it once, but then
decided to go on with my own 5 sloc of JS implemantion of endless
pagination, using Django's normal pagination on the python side, so
I'd like to be convinced that it's really necessary in a project ! But
that I guess is another topic.

Best ;)

James

[Raphaël Barrois]

Hello there,

I am not sure the tone of that discussion is suitable for that mailing-list ;)


Regarding the initial discussion, if I understand correctly, the idea would be to find a way to prevent useful packages
from turning into abandoned, unmaintained projects.

From my (personal) experience:
- If someone is interested in taking over maintenance of an abandoned project, the original author is often quite happy
to help
- If the task seems too daunting to handle it single-handedly, you could try to find a few other power-users of the
package who would be willing to help maintain it

In that second case, the benefit of a generic/umbrella organisation would be to simplify the task of finding
co-maintainers for a project.

I am not part of the Django team, but I don't see why the maintenance of those extra projects would have to be handled
by the Django team; a better start might be to approach the maintainers of a few projects that matter to you and
discuss the idea with them; if that works, you could, as a group, decide whether you want that to happen within the
Django org or within a different org.


--
Raphaël

[Michal Petrucha]

On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 04:06:32PM +0100, Raphaël Barrois wrote:
> Hello there,
>
> I am not sure the tone of that discussion is suitable for that mailing-list ;)

I totally agree on this point. Let's try to keep it civil.

> Regarding the initial discussion, if I understand correctly, the idea would be to find a way to prevent useful packages
> from turning into abandoned, unmaintained projects.
>
> From my (personal) experience:
> - If someone is interested in taking over maintenance of an abandoned project, the original author is often quite happy
> to help
> - If the task seems too daunting to handle it single-handedly, you could try to find a few other power-users of the
> package who would be willing to help maintain it
>
> In that second case, the benefit of a generic/umbrella organisation would be to simplify the task of finding
> co-maintainers for a project.
>
> I am not part of the Django team, but I don't see why the maintenance of those extra projects would have to be handled
> by the Django team; a better start might be to approach the maintainers of a few projects that matter to you and
> discuss the idea with them; if that works, you could, as a group, decide whether you want that to happen within the
> Django org or within a different org.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this exactly what Jazzband
(https://jazzband.co/) is about? Coincidentally, currently it consists
mostly of Django projects.

Michal

[James Pic]

FTR, there's also Djangonauts which have been there for a while:
https://github.com/djangonauts

Sorry, I tried not to look uncivil - and yet I fail to see where I
was, but definitely re-reading and thinking about it (I'm not an
english native speaker). Please anyone feel free to PM me and point me
to where I was uncivil.

Best ;)

James

[Matías Iturburu]

2016-03-16 12:39 GMT-03:00 James Pic <jame...@gmail.com>:

FTR, there's also Djangonauts which have been there for a while:
https://github.com/djangonauts

This is exactly what I was asking for when I asked if there was an organization to pick on unmaintained projects.
Thank you very much.

 

Sorry, I tried not to look uncivil - and yet I fail to see where I
was, but definitely re-reading and thinking about it (I'm not an
english native speaker). Please anyone feel free to PM me and point me
to where I was uncivil.

Best ;)

James

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