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We have a prototype Open qPCR machine at the moment which is capable of ramping ramping 5-10 C/s at various parts of the temperature range. Final controlled ramps in the PCR region are likely to be more like 5-7 C/s. The main difference over the OpenPCR was much higher power density in the thermoelectric modules, which necessitates larger power supplies and higher current power switching components. Another difference was reduction in thermal mass of the heatblock by removing more excess material. A third change was a faster heat exchange rate with the air when cooling (i.e. larger heatsink and faster airflow). As Cathal pointed out this requires more engineering in heatblock consistency and thermal control.All of this increases cost relative to the conservatively engineered OpenPCR. The increased cost may not be worth it for everyone, but I think there is certainly benefit to PCR cycles that take 30 minutes instead of 2 hours. Anyways hope this answers your question about how faster ramp rates are possible in heat block based thermocyclers. There are some more exotic designs that achieve even faster ramp rates with high speed airjets.-Josh
On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 4:05 AM, Cathal Garvey <cathal...@cathalgarvey.me> wrote:
Yes, Eagle seems ridiculous when a project is branded open-source.
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I talked to the guys at miniPCR and they seem very nice. I had followed pesonal PCR for a while but the website never seemed to change and the product was never for sale. I guess a few guys from Templeman engineering who were working on it spun off miniPCR. It's a sleek and small looking design and very hand-held looking. PersonalPCR was going to be $600 and miniPCR's are $800 according to both websites. Most of the design files were released I think except for perhaps the most important ones, those of the actual circuit. I can't really blame someone for putting in a hell of a lot of work on a project and wanting to make some money off of it though or maintain some ownership.So for $800 for 8 wells with miniPCR, vs 16 wells for $600 from OpenPCR, vs 96 wells from a used machine you can get from somewhere for less than $600 (though it wouldn't be as portable and small) it's a toss up as to what you want and who you want to support I suppose. I've seen a really nice machine in a lab which was a touch screen interface brand new 96 well machine with all sorts of bells and whistles for only $2,500 I think.If someone could come in with a price point of $500 or less I think it'd be a hit, because until then I think Ebay or dumpster diving is still a better bet.
On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 11:42 AM, John Griessen <jo...@industromatic.com> wrote:
On 07/03/2014 08:00 PM, Peter Thielen wrote:
Not sure if others have come across the "open source" PersonalPCR <http://www.personalpcr.com/pcr/home> design, but it uses the
same ideas you are all discussing here. Some major drawbacks include poor documentation and improper release of design files,
such as the .pdf used for the all surface mount component control board. I would be very interested in building these if others
are able to provide an eagle file for the board, as I have access to a fully outfitted Maker lab that would allow me to produce
these for ~$100/ea in components. Honestly, if anyone comes up with a usable design along similar lines as this, I'd be
interested in helping out with production.
This design uses heavy metal blocks. I am planning a vigorously stirred air PCR machine
that will sell for under $125 and have a parts cost of maybe $35 in 100's volume. I can't see using Eagle
when KiCAD and gEDA are available and free open. If interested, my timeline is 2nd half of 2015 for launching.
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They haven't responded to any emails, which I guess is understandable if they are planning on taking it closed source. Unfortunate, though, as one more closed source idea is one more piece taken from the community as a whole. They do have the board in the documentation now, it's just not in an easily usable form -- I'm hoping to get something very similar up and running in the near future, and I'll post here if I'm successful. I've added up all the build costs, and I think it's already south of $100/unit in parts.
Ahh, I guess I've actually only worked with qpcr plates and cell culture plates... I believe they're all a standard format which makes it easy for robots.
https://www.google.com/search?q=qpcr+plate+96
Those are good for heat, and rather than a loose lid they get a sticky clear transparent film applied on top.
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