Beta Test My Gel Box

[Avery louie]

I am building an extremely crazy cheap gel box, with the goal of being able to sell an adjustable power supply+transluminator+assembled box for $150.  I tested it today and it worked.  Now I am looking for a few people who want to beta test the system.  I want to roll out the first 10 units to beta testers by mid august, and if that goes well I want to have these boxes available all the time.

For $150, here is what you get:

Gel box

100V adjustable power supply

Blue Light Transluminator

I will release a video demo before you send me any money, but you can sign up by giving me your contact info here.

You can learn more about the design and how it stacks up against other boxes by reading this post or this one.  Once the design is finalized, mechanical drawings and schematics will be available for all parts and will probably be licensed CC BY SA or something similar.  I am using this as a litmus test to see if people are interested in other cheap lab equipment.  I hope to drop the barrier to entry into biotech, and you can help by supporting this project.  A lot of people say that, but check out the price comparisons- I let my design, and price speak for itself.

--A

[Don Mitchem]

A... this is a great idea!  If you can make this work it will help a lot of people like myself who is interested in diy bio but have limited money to get started.

 

D

[Cathal Garvey (Phone)]

Count me in if welcome, and would be eager to pay and help develop this.

--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

[Avery louie]

You are certainly welcome!  More info on the illuminator and supply next week, as parts arrive.

--A

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[Koeng]

Cool! How much do you think some extra gel boxs and power supplies would cost?

[william...@gmail.com]

We'd (london biohackers) definitely be interested, as we are planning to buy a blue light transilluminator anyway.

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[Avery louie]

@Koeng/All

Hopefully this will answer your question, and hopefully you can provide some feedback for me!

I am currently debating making the power supply and transluminator one integrated device.  The reasons I want to do this are:

- They can share a power supply, lowering the cost

- They can share a case, lowering the cost

- They can share a control panel (again, lowering the cost)

This will make it more accessible to those who don't have a gel box, and cheap!  However, there are some benefits to having the two separated, namely that you could buy 10 psus, 10 gel boxes, and one transluminator for your lab.

There seem to be two use cases with different needs here, one where one person wants a complete setup, and another where someone wants to supply several people/a lab with all these things.

Depending on what kind of translumination works*, I will have to make a decision RE integration.  I am putting the odds in favor of integration, because that will keep costs low and keep the $150 price point within reach.  The breakdown for individual components will hopefully be something like this for the integrated system:

$100 PSU and illuminator.  This carries a high price point since it has a lot of tech and material in it!  If it is integrated, I might even be able to afford to put some banana jacks on it, so you can use it with whatever gel box you like.

$10 Power supply for the PSU/illuminator.  This is basically at-cost.

$30 For a gel tray.  I want to make this mad cheap so people can buy a bunch of them.

$10 For a set of combs/dams.  These are going to be a PITA for me to make, but you will need them...

Total: $150+ shipping, which I hope to keep at $5 in the US, and whatever is cheap for international.

Please let me know what you are thinking!  I am very busy designing a prototype with the production power supply and I am super psyched about showing you guys a demo+walkaround sometime this week.  Once I get it working, I will collect payments and ship them out!

--A

* I will be trying to light up my gel with an EL panel.  It could provide really thin, really even illumination.  Or not (not the right wavelength).  Either way, I get an EL panel!  (will it laser cut?!?!?!?!)

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[john gorman]

Perhaps make the transluminator a plugin/block. You could have different potential plugins..similar to the arduino shield concept ?

I'm in for a box too please if possible....

John.

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[william...@gmail.com]

We have an electrophoresis power supply already so would buy it without one if available, however as it's quite cheap we wouldn't object to getting the integrated version if that works better.

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[Pieter]

In preparation of a workshop during Observe Hack Make next Friday, we made a gel electrophoresis box in the Open Wetlab. With the FabLab next door, it was easy to laser cut all the pieces. I posted the svg files on the FabLab website under CC BY SA license: http://fablab.waag.org/project/dna-gel-electrophoresis-box

The box is completely made out of 3mm acryl.

Don't forget IO rodeo has a nice kit and open design online as well: http://www.iorodeo.com/content/mini-gel-electrophoresis-kit

The design is made in inches, so that's why we made our own.

As a power source I simply link a bunch of 9V batteries in series.

A kit would be of good use to those without access to a lasercutter, although there are probably plenty of plastic boxes available anywhere in the world.

I also like the iorodeo transilluminator, although it is a bit small. What dimensions for the gel box and illuminator do you have in mind?

[Avery louie]

@pieter, my box is laser cut as well.  Unlike most boxes, it only has one acryllic weld, making it much cheaper.

Unlike iorodeo, it will not be sold as kit.  Everything will come flat packed, and you will use a screwdriver/fingers to attach the peices.  For the same level of assembly and functionality, the iorodeo kit is 345, which is more than twice the cost of the setup I want to make.  Unassembled, it is 285, but you will need a soldering iron and probably some jigs to glue it.

For the illuminator, I am not sure of the size or type yet.  There is a good chance it will be an led light source, but I can tell you more about that this week as more parts arrive.  (I have leds, they are ok).

@troland, I may consider a banana to my system adaptor if this takes off, but right now the boxes are only going to be compatible with this system, so you will need both.  The reason is that properly insulated banana cables are about $10 a pair, and male plugs are upwards of $3.  That makes it very hard to keep price in check.  I do want to include "banana out" on the psu, in case you have a different gel box you like.

@john g, good idea, I will see what I can do.

You can read more about the design goals and comparisons to other systems at my blog, tequals0.wordpress.com . the current top two posts are about the box.

> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/diybio/3ae0c827-23fe-4051-8866-957f72d7ed0e%40googlegroups.com.

[Avery louie]

Also, for those listeners just tuning in, please fill out this form so I can keep track of interest: link

It basically just asks for your name and email so I dont have to dredge through this thread, and so I dont miss your email.

--A

[Destiny Z]

Hey! This is supper cool sounding! My lab is not a the molecular-bio phase of purchasing yet (will be in a couple of months though). How long are you going to be offering this?

[Avery louie]

I am trying to ship out beta test units by mid august, and if people are pleased with them, I will start manufacturing them later in the year (September or October).

--A

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[John Griessen]

On 07/28/2013 11:26 PM, Avery louie wrote:
> I am currently debating making the power supply and transluminator one integrated device. The reasons I want to do this are:
>
> - They can share a power supply, lowering the cost
> - They can share a case, lowering the cost
> - They can share a control panel (again, lowering the cost)
>
> This will make it more accessible to those who don't have a gel box, and cheap! However, there are some benefits to having the

> two separated, namely that you could buy 10 psus, 10 gel boxes, and one transilluminator for your lab.

I'll help you review this for production ideas to keep costs low. Please send me your details. What 3D or 2D CAD are you using?
OpenSCAD>

If it is integrated, I
> might even be able to afford to put some banana jacks on it, so you can use it with whatever gel box you like.

Plain banana jacks don't satisfy safety requirements, but some as are used on DMM's have an insulating shield
that keeps conductors covered until connection is broken, and those could be good.

> $10 For a set of combs/dams. These are going to be a PITA for me to make

Seems like basic laser cutting, right?

I am very busy designing a prototype with the production power supply

How is it "production" quality of design , yet we haven't heard much about the details of it

You once mentioned, "1A is probably dangerous at 120v. It is tricky to say", so you should
get some review for safety's sake from me, or any others with more electricity experience.
1A is instant heart stopping electrocution current. A salty right hand to left hand connection
would go above the 10 milliamps it takes to disrupt heart beating when driven by 120 Volts.

John Griessen

[Avery louie]

Hi John,

Thanks for the offer.  Let me address some of your questions:

"Plain banana jacks don't satisfy safety requirements, but some as are used on DMM's have an insulating shield
that keeps conductors covered until connection is broken, and those could be good."

It sounds like you are talking about banana plugs (male) connectors.  I am talking about recessed female connectors (jacks), which generally have much better insulation.

"Seems like basic laser cutting, right?"

It is basic laser cutting.  The PITA part is the material.  It turns out to be cheap to make enough acrylic-rubber laminate for these parts a box since it uses so little.  However, its a pain to make the laminate.

"How is it "production" quality of design , yet we haven't heard much about the details of it"

Let me talk about the design a little.  I am not doing any hardcore electrical or mechanical engineering here.  If I were going to put it in the most boring way, I would say I am basically choosing parts and putting them in a box.  So a design that gets finished now is essentially a "production" design.  It should be able to be produced, at a target cost of 150 (first 10 units will definitely be at 150).  It should be designed to scale to more units.

But it also needs to be thoughtful and not gimmicky.  An example of a gimmick are the "watch dna as it runs" gel boxes with tight fitting lids- they just don't work.  Water condenses on the lid, and all you get to see are water droplets.  If you want to use the box as your filter, you then have to disconnect everything and wipe the lid.  You may as well have a separate box for that!  This design is going to incorporate all kinds of gel-goodness and cheap, and usable.  An example of thoughtful is making the gel tray cheap so you can keep a fridge full of gels on deck, and making sure it is pretty tricky to zap yourself.

This kind of design takes a little while and a lot of sketching.  By the end of the week I should know which illuminator I am "glowing" with, and hopefully on Saturday I will have a prototype to run and show off.

RE power supply and safety:

When i said that I meant touching a live wire with 120V running through it at 1A- in that case, it depends on your skin resistance, and how lucky you are.  The PSU is a boost converter running off 12 volts.  Conveniently, a lot of things run off of 12 volts :)

So keep an ear to the list for a post on illumination later this week, and for a video on Saturday or Sunday.

--A

[John Griessen]

On 07/30/2013 10:13 AM, Avery louie wrote:
> It sounds like you are talking about banana plugs (male) connectors. I am talking about recessed female connectors (jacks), which
> generally have much better insulation.

It takes two, so the males with a sleeve of insulation around them are one way to keep bare metal from showing.
You don't want any showing so the case where a loose bare metal object touches it and a person.

John

[John Griessen]

On 07/30/2013 10:13 AM, Avery louie wrote:

> not doing any hardcore electrical or mechanical engineering here. If I were going to put it in the most boring way, I would say I
> am basically choosing parts and putting them in a box.

Engineering is the balance of cost and performance, so you *are* doing engineering.
I'll help review if you allow and I'm not out to scoop you on any great selling opportunity.

My experience with a kit product for EEs that own old Tek scopes is that they are cheap,
and only buy when they really perceive a big benefit, and then not often.
Niche market sales can be slow. I have a long haul attitude about it and it will be more about
web sites with evolving content than super innovative product design. To stave off lawyer attacks,
it is better to offer mostly patent expired tech as a niche kit manufacturer. The product
liability issue in the USA needs to be defused by publishing laws and offering a kit
for no particular use and getting help from a community to write up how to use it.
You're selling an electrocuter, (in the eyes of many), is why I caution you.

John

[Avery louie]

Thanks for the tip.  I am not sure what to do about licensing yet, but we will see what happens.

--A

On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 3:40 PM, Bryan Bonvallet <btbo...@gmail.com> wrote:

CC licensing is not the best idea for schematics. There are a number of open hardware licenses to draw from. I recently read an article that was geared towards the 3D Printing world, but their discussion of open hardware licenses is pretty interesting with respect to SCM. The hash on this address should take you directly to a comparison of open hardware licenses and where they are perceived to fail.

http://jipel.law.nyu.edu/2013/04/three-dimensional-printing-and-open-source-hardware/#_I

-Bryan

On Thursday, July 25, 2013 10:16:12 AM UTC-4, Cpp wrote:

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[Avery louie]

It was recently Saturday, but you cant say OP did not deliver.  Here are two posts on the progress of the gel box:

About the transluminator

About the box progress/build itself

About translumination in general

Coming soon will be a post about the cost/part breakdown, and what parts of the design need to change.

--A