Cisgenic Frankenfood

[Mega [Andreas Stuermer]]

Hi everyone, 

My brain bred a new idea. 

Everything that has to do with genetic engineering here in Europe is regarded as bad, dangerous. People with pitchforks and torches will come and get you. The law forbids genetic engineering outside of certified labs. 

But there is one exception. If you do like cisgenetic engineering - take an  E coli gene into E coli or apple gene into apple, it is termed "self-cloning" (in Austria and Germany at least) and is unregulated. Now I want to find a native blue apple pigment, overexpress it very very much, so that the apples turns blue. Fun thing - this is unregulated! I even think I have an apple gene that detoxes kanamycin - so I have a selectable marker! 

Or maybe I engineer banana and switch off the yellow gene? add much more yellow?  Enhance vitaminC content of apples?  

Seems everything is possible now. Perfect tiny loophole. A colour would be nice to start with!  

Does anyone know where to start? Anyone ever had to do with apple pigments? :D 

[Mega [Andreas Stuermer]]

Très interessant

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs11248-011-9566-y

Colouring soybeans - cisgenic way! 

[Mega [Andreas Stuermer]]

http://www.plantphysiol.org/content/153/2/806.full

Enhancement of anthocyanin content in apple - making it mega red? 

 delphinidin (berries, red apples, red grapes)

http://what-when-how.com/food-colors/natural-food-pigments-part-2/

what I need? 

The anthocyanins pelargonidin, cyanidin, and delphinidin produce scarlet, crimson, and blue-mauve shades

http://journal.ashspublications.org/content/119/1/63.full.pdf

Ah, and I finally found out why there are yellow raspberries I guess. Just the red colour-defective mutant

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelargonidin

[Pieter]

After you mentioned it some time ago, I looked it up. I am sorry to disappoint you, but at least in The Netherlands cisgenesis is regarded no different from transgenesis by the law. The same restrictions apply to research, release and trade.
There has been a lot of lobbying by agrotech companies, but even in the latest parlementairy debates there seems to be no mayority to change this.
"Commercial companies have not shown any morality" the state secretary said. Also, there is no consensus on EU level on the risks.
For those that can understand Dutch:
www.boerderij.nl/Home/Nieuws/2014/6/Geen-status-aparte-voor-cisgenese-in-Nederland-1534657W/

[Mega [Andreas Stuermer]]

here's the Autrial law text: 

( https://www.ris.bka.gv.at/GeltendeFassung.wxe?Abfrage=Bundesnormen&Gesetzesnummer=10010826 ) 

Also had it as pdf somewhere

• Geltungsbereich (where it applies)

  § 2. (1) Dieses Bundesgesetz gilt für

  1.		gentechnische Anlagen;
  2.		Arbeiten mit gentechnisch veränderten Organismen (GVO);
  3.		Freisetzungen von gentechnisch veränderten Organismen;
  4.		das Inverkehrbringen von Erzeugnissen, die aus gentechnisch veränderten Organismen bestehen oder solche enthalten;
  5.		die Kennzeichnung von Erzeugnissen, die aus gentechnisch veränderten Organismen oder deren Teilen bestehen, solche enthalten oder aus solchen gewonnen wurden, ausgenommen solche Erzeugnisse, die aus gentechnisch veränderten Organismen, deren Teilen oder deren Kulturüberständen isoliert wurden;
  6.		die genetische Analyse und die Gentherapie am Menschen.

  (2) Sofern nicht mit gentechnisch veränderten Organismen oder mit gentechnisch veränderter Nukleinsäure gearbeitet wird, gilt dieses Bundesgesetz nicht für Arbeiten, die nicht zu gentechnisch veränderten Organismen führen, wie insbesondere   (unless worked with genetically modified organisms or nuceic acids, this law does not apply to)

  1.		In-Vitro-Befruchtung,
  2.		Konjugation, Transduktion, Transformation oder jeden anderen natürlichen Prozeß,
  3.		Polyploidie-Induktion und Elimination von Chromosomen,
  4.		Verfahren der ungerichteten Mutagenese, (random mutagenesis)
  5.		Zell- und Protoplastenfusion von pflanzlichen Zellen, sowie Fusion von Protoplasten von Mikroorganismen, soweit die entstehenden Organismen auch mit herkömmlichen Züchtungstechniken erzeugt werden können,
  6.		Erzeugung somatisch-menschlicher oder somatisch-tierischer Hybridoma-Zellen, sofern es sich nicht um ein Vorhaben der Freisetzung oder des Inverkehrbringens handelt,
  7.		Selbstklonierung (Self cloning of non-pathogens) nicht pathogener, natürlich vorkommender Mikroorganismen, die die Kriterien der Risikogruppe 1 erfüllen, sofern es sich nicht um ein Vorhaben der Freisetzung oder des Inverkehrbringens handelt (if you don't intend  to release them). Als Selbstklonierung gilt auch die Klonierung mit gleichartigen Empfänger- und Spenderorganismen, die unter Verwendung von definierten, gut charakterisierten Vektoren durchgeführt werden.

  (3) Dieses Bundesgesetz gilt nicht für das Inverkehrbringen und Kennzeichnen von Arzneimitteln im Sinne des § 1 Abs. 1 und Abs. 2 Z 1 Arzneimittelgesetz und deren nachfolgende Verwendung.

  (4) Die Verwendung von GVO im Rahmen einer gemäß § 75 zu genehmigenden klinischen Prüfung zum Zweck der somatischen Gentherapie gilt nicht als Freisetzung im Sinn dieses Bundesgesetzes.

 

• 
  

[Mega [Andreas Stuermer]]

>There has been a lot of lobbying by agrotech companies, but even in the latest parlementairy debates there seems to be no mayority to change this. 
"Commercial companies have not shown any morality" the state secretary said. 

A) The state secretary is right that you cannot trust commercial companies. B) he is very shortsighted, because - just look at Golden rice. It's a punch in their face.

C) It would be the governemnt's job to certify the GMO. More vitaminA? Great, approved! Pesticide resistance? No thanks. Dismiss!  

>Also, there is no consensus on EU level on the risks. 

Scientifically there is broad consensus that ther is no risk from GM products. Just political consensus that the voters don't like it so we ban it. 

[Mega [Andreas Stuermer]]

Wait, you are allowed to use well-characterized vectors and insert a cisgenic gene into the organism it states. 

Plus it states - unless you work with genetically modified nucleic acids. 

How do you put the gene into a well characterized vector (like pUC19) withoout genetic engineering techniques? " Isn't the product then a genetically modified nucleic acids (like pUC19 plus native coli gene" 

[Cathal Garvey]

It's a bit like saying "You can build a mud bridge without an
engineering license as long as you don't used engineered mud bricks".

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[SC]

Hi guys,

Back in the day, when "genetic engineering" was new in the U.S., there was a ban on engineering human DNA.  However, cloning human DNA into bacterial vectors for the purpose of using the cloned strand for another purpose, such as sequencing or expression, was specifically exempt. (Which was good, or we wouldn't have the human genome now.)  So technically by cloning you're making a transgenic, but for regulatory purposes it was exempt from the rules.   Note; this was in the U.S. and some time ago.  Maybe the EU rules have the same type of reasoning.

[Brian Degger]

One of critical art ensembles art works was using one of these sacromyces (yeast) to make wine and bread .... It was eaten ;)

On 28 Nov 2014 23:30, "'SC' via DIYbio" <diy...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Hi guys,

Back in the day, when "genetic engineering" was new in the U.S., there was a ban on engineering human DNA.  However, cloning human DNA into bacterial vectors for the purpose of using the cloned strand for another purpose, such as sequencing or expression, was specifically exempt. (Which was good, or we wouldn't have the human genome now.)  So technically by cloning you're making a transgenic, but for regulatory purposes it was exempt from the rules.   Note; this was in the U.S. and some time ago.  Maybe the EU rules have the same type of reasoning.

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