So...
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Cory J. Geesaman
Apr 28, 2026, 11:33:33 PM (17 hours ago) Apr 28
to DIYbio
Are we just not going to talk about how Bryan Bishop was in the Epstein files?
Message has been deleted
Dan Kolis
10:30 AM (6 hours ago) 10:30 AM
to DIYbio
I think personal acts of any sort don't really fit the intent of this forum, much or at all. Pseudo scientist get rich quick snake oil guys with funnier interpersonal hobbies ? Maybe ... in the fringe of interests here; Tto say the least.
But ok; I will get say for myself: I have no interest in the fellow whatsoever. I think its a funny expectation to clog up this channel with un-actionable speculation, or voyerism, or whatever it is, or isn't.
Rattle on if you must. Internet has infinite capacity for text messages, really.
Cathal Garvey
10:56 AM (6 hours ago) 10:56 AM
to Diybio
I believe it was posted in the context of "this person was/is very active and influential in this community", which isn't necessarily off-topic at all.
Now, whether "person was mentioned in a huge trove of scandalous documents involving a worldwide rapist/paedophile proto-fascist ring" is enough to do a big-splash public callout.. I don't know. Those shits interacted with tons of people who had no idea who they were or what they were doing. What does it mean that Bryan was "in" the files?
If the appearance of someone big in the community in the files were suitably suspicious, I'd call that on topic. If not, it's noise.
NB: I haven't looked, for my own part. Just engaging in the meta.
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29 Apr 2026, 15:31 by dank...@gmail.com:
I think personal acts of any sort don't really fit the intent of this forum, much or at all. Pseudo scientist get rich quick snake oil guys with funnier interpersonal hobbies ? Maybe ... in the fringe of interests here; Tto say the least.But ok; I will get say for myself: I have no interest in the fellow whatsoever. I think its a funny expectation to clog up this channel with un-actionable speculation, or voyerism, or whatever it is, or isn't.Rattle on if you must. Internet has infinite capacity for text messages, really.
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Dan Kolis
11:43 AM (5 hours ago) 11:43 AM
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I suppose. Still there is next to no traffic here useful in the context of problem solving. I mean, gossip and enforcement acts titillate people generally,. but merely annoy me generally.
I think it's a long road to hoe to come up with anything materially useful about this entirely. So I think negative feedback is reasonable. I know it's nice and fancy to throw the net of civil liberties as wide as possible. But the absence of utility of this channel is point blank depressing.
It could be so great, and therefore, excitement over enabling gossip is just that much worse.
Part of life, I suppose. Time to yawn, again....
The first message I posted and deleted featured the proposed discussion is Drivel. I think now to reconsider it, that's perfect:
The core self anointed mission(s) in biotechnology and biology are so vast, there is an infinite amount of things to consider, try, wish for, think about and discuss. A guys mini projects with some deceased pervert is off topic, and I think that is that.
Regs,
Dan
Dear God(s) let;'s hope this three passes of drivel seizes up. I wish for lots of things that don't transpire, I have noticed....
I think it's a long road to hoe to come up with anything materially useful about this entirely. So I think negative feedback is reasonable. I know it's nice and fancy to throw the net of civil liberties as wide as possible. But the absence of utility of this channel is point blank depressing.
It could be so great, and therefore, excitement over enabling gossip is just that much worse.
Part of life, I suppose. Time to yawn, again....
The first message I posted and deleted featured the proposed discussion is Drivel. I think now to reconsider it, that's perfect:
drivel
/ˈdriv(ə)l/
Drivel refers to nonsense, childish, or meaningless talk and writing.
Problem is, the initial message generated some drivel of my own. That's the horror of it. Just wishing it away seems pretty ineffective. The core self anointed mission(s) in biotechnology and biology are so vast, there is an infinite amount of things to consider, try, wish for, think about and discuss. A guys mini projects with some deceased pervert is off topic, and I think that is that.
Regs,
Dan
Dear God(s) let;'s hope this three passes of drivel seizes up. I wish for lots of things that don't transpire, I have noticed....
Cathal Garvey
11:54 AM (5 hours ago) 11:54 AM
to Diybio
I share your frustration that the initial post felt very drive-by. If someone wants to have a meta-conversation about the regulation of our community, then they should make a sober case and lay that out.
It's essential for any healthy community to be able to keep out bad actors, so I'm only defending the possibility of having these conversations, here. As long as they're relevant to the community, IMO, they're relevant to the topic.
Throwing an apple of discord into the channel without further elaboration feels like the wrong way to start these difficult conversations, though.
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29 Apr 2026, 16:43 by dank...@gmail.com:
alexaxon62
1:49 PM (3 hours ago) 1:49 PM
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I don't think the first message in the thread approached the conversation at an angle appropriate for productive conversation about the topic, either- a single sentence, sent as it was, does not lend itself to dialogue within this community that I do feel is necessary to acknowledge somewhere. Regardless of the way it was brought up, Bryan's interactions with this particular group of people does carry an impact on the reputation of DIYbio/biohacking as a whole-- like it or not, unsubstantiated or not, unfair or not, etc. Searching "designer babies" "epstein" "bryan bishop" on a search engine bears many results, using the terms "biohacker" and "DIYBio" in the same sentence. It does not feel in the interest of anyone doing work in this vast domain to have it viewed differently because of a single influential actor within it. I don't think that's unreasonable, and, although it must be approached with a great deal of restraint/composure, some channel of communication should be made to address it. I'm providing some information to those who wish to hear it (and I understand some may not, which will be addressed later)
I am going to lay out only what I can prove, attempting from now on to be as objective as possible:
Please note that these are not necessarily completely chronological as the lookup tool is not particularly suited for this need. I have tried to fix this somewhat. I do not imply chronology with the sequence in which the emails are summarized in this message, so dates are provided.
--
Bryan's interactions dealt with both cryptocurrency and biohacking, particularly focusing on "Designer Babies" (seen in many of the subject lines throughout the ~50 emails I can find). I am only including several emails I feel are most relevant to this conversation, though the search tool is of course publicly accessible.
The earliest email I can find that mentions Bryan is a sort of many-times-forwarded thread, wherein Bryan is part of a chain of emails regarding LedgerX, from 2016. ^1
In July of 2018 Bryan and Epstein seem to be setting up a meeting- Bryan supplies a PDF from diyhpluswiki that is no longer public, writes about "how serious [Epstein is] about wanting this, and what the ground rules for even exploring this with [him] and getting to next steps....Most of these questions are around your requirements for secrecy and privacy, specifically regarding reputational risk and also any financial involvement. I think there would also need to be some understanding about goals and feasibility of different results.
I think that one way this could be done is under the banner of my designer babies project, since the other deliverable is similar and shares so many of the same procedures and lab requirements. This might offer a sufficient level of deniability."
Epstein replies, and "[has] no issue with investing the problem is only if i [sic] am seen to lead".
^2
Several emails during this time involve Jeffrey asking others if they know Bryan, and what they think of him. Available upon asking nicely, again accessible through the DOJ's portal.
In August of 2018 Bryan delivered a spreadsheet dealing with funding for the project, along with a message which I will attach in full:
"Attached is the doc you requested, it's the "use of funds" spreadsheet for the designer baby and human cloning company.
This gets us out of our self-funded "garage biology" phase to the first live birth of a human designer baby, and possibly a human clone, within 5 years. Once we reach the first birth, everything changes and the world will never be the same again, much less the future of the human species. Attached doc shows —$1.7rn/year for up to 5 years + $1m for lab setup. (--$9.5m to fund 5 years, $6m for 3 years).
Next steps: I am happy to hop on another call, or I could take a trip to meet you in person? And if you have any thoughts about what I might be missing, or whether this is a reasonable estimate to get to the first live birth, then I would really appreciate any feedback you have.
I am traveling in Lithuania for Aug 7-14 and I'll probably be unreachable during that time.
Google Docs version here (same file): REDACTED
Thank you.
Bryan"
^3
A redacted account sends Epstein an "August 2018 Itinerary", which includes: "4-5:00pm Designer Babies-Bryan Bishop-appear.in (https://appear.inItaxmastergenetics )
Bryan Cell for backup: REDACTED". ^4
In October of 2018, Bryan sends Epstein in October of 2018 referencing the new legality of human embryo gene editing-
1. https://www.justice.gov/epstein/files/DataSet%209/EFTA00830796.pdf
2. https://www.justice.gov/epstein/files/DataSet%209/EFTA01004801.pdf
3. https://www.justice.gov/epstein/files/DataSet%209/EFTA01003966.pdf
4. https://www.justice.gov/epstein/files/DataSet%209/EFTA00479255.pdf
5. https://www.justice.gov/epstein/files/DataSet%209/EFTA01019549.pdf
6. https://www.justice.gov/epstein/files/DataSet%209/EFTA01004641.pdf
7. https://www.justice.gov/epstein/files/DataSet%2011/EFTA02598225.pdf
I am going to lay out only what I can prove, attempting from now on to be as objective as possible:
Please note that these are not necessarily completely chronological as the lookup tool is not particularly suited for this need. I have tried to fix this somewhat. I do not imply chronology with the sequence in which the emails are summarized in this message, so dates are provided.
--
Bryan's interactions dealt with both cryptocurrency and biohacking, particularly focusing on "Designer Babies" (seen in many of the subject lines throughout the ~50 emails I can find). I am only including several emails I feel are most relevant to this conversation, though the search tool is of course publicly accessible.
The earliest email I can find that mentions Bryan is a sort of many-times-forwarded thread, wherein Bryan is part of a chain of emails regarding LedgerX, from 2016. ^1
In July of 2018 Bryan and Epstein seem to be setting up a meeting- Bryan supplies a PDF from diyhpluswiki that is no longer public, writes about "how serious [Epstein is] about wanting this, and what the ground rules for even exploring this with [him] and getting to next steps....Most of these questions are around your requirements for secrecy and privacy, specifically regarding reputational risk and also any financial involvement. I think there would also need to be some understanding about goals and feasibility of different results.
I think that one way this could be done is under the banner of my designer babies project, since the other deliverable is similar and shares so many of the same procedures and lab requirements. This might offer a sufficient level of deniability."
Epstein replies, and "[has] no issue with investing the problem is only if i [sic] am seen to lead".
^2
Several emails during this time involve Jeffrey asking others if they know Bryan, and what they think of him. Available upon asking nicely, again accessible through the DOJ's portal.
In August of 2018 Bryan delivered a spreadsheet dealing with funding for the project, along with a message which I will attach in full:
"Attached is the doc you requested, it's the "use of funds" spreadsheet for the designer baby and human cloning company.
This gets us out of our self-funded "garage biology" phase to the first live birth of a human designer baby, and possibly a human clone, within 5 years. Once we reach the first birth, everything changes and the world will never be the same again, much less the future of the human species. Attached doc shows —$1.7rn/year for up to 5 years + $1m for lab setup. (--$9.5m to fund 5 years, $6m for 3 years).
Next steps: I am happy to hop on another call, or I could take a trip to meet you in person? And if you have any thoughts about what I might be missing, or whether this is a reasonable estimate to get to the first live birth, then I would really appreciate any feedback you have.
I am traveling in Lithuania for Aug 7-14 and I'll probably be unreachable during that time.
Google Docs version here (same file): REDACTED
Thank you.
Bryan"
^3
A redacted account sends Epstein an "August 2018 Itinerary", which includes: "4-5:00pm Designer Babies-Bryan Bishop-appear.in (https://appear.inItaxmastergenetics )
Bryan Cell for backup: REDACTED". ^4
In October of 2018, Bryan sends Epstein in October of 2018 referencing the new legality of human embryo gene editing-
"Eventually this will mean we can make practically unlimited modifications to the cells before generating an embryo. This isn't a requirement for our initial work but it's a very important direction that will unlock more commercial opportunities."...
to which Epstein replies "we need to get a read on legal. first. cant [sic] do anything where US rules apply to us citizens regardless of where.? its [sic] such a great subject. what type of investors. " ^5
The earliest formally documented meeting I can find is a Google Calendar invite named "Financial markets & cryptocoins with Jeffrey, Bryan" set for July 20th, 2018. ^6
Another calendar alert for an event titled "Designer babies (Bryan Bishop)" set for August 2nd. "Agenda- Designer babies, structuring, finance, privacy, project goals, feasible outcomes, timelines" ^7
Many emails from this point in time regard crypto and embryo editing interspersed, not within the same threads but by nature of Epstein's networking within both. To comment on every one of these would not be germane or cater to the pursuit of reasonable brevity, but I can provide links to them if requested. Many of them are very short replies from Epstein, of relatively little gravity, to aforementioned emails.
Dan, I understand the source of your distaste for speaking about this issue through this channel, truly. This conversation should be opt-in, and I am offering my email (alexa...@gmail.com) for anyone wishing to talk about this further elsewhere- I'll just make an email thread for those who do. It is not in good interest to clog the main artery of this part of the community with something many people either want to talk about further or really don't want to talk about at all. We can redirect the drivel somewhere else such that it is no longer drivel to those who are a party to it.
This message is likely riddled with formatting and typographical mistakes. I apologize.
Reach out if desired. Sources below.
Alex
The earliest formally documented meeting I can find is a Google Calendar invite named "Financial markets & cryptocoins with Jeffrey, Bryan" set for July 20th, 2018. ^6
Another calendar alert for an event titled "Designer babies (Bryan Bishop)" set for August 2nd. "Agenda- Designer babies, structuring, finance, privacy, project goals, feasible outcomes, timelines" ^7
Many emails from this point in time regard crypto and embryo editing interspersed, not within the same threads but by nature of Epstein's networking within both. To comment on every one of these would not be germane or cater to the pursuit of reasonable brevity, but I can provide links to them if requested. Many of them are very short replies from Epstein, of relatively little gravity, to aforementioned emails.
Dan, I understand the source of your distaste for speaking about this issue through this channel, truly. This conversation should be opt-in, and I am offering my email (alexa...@gmail.com) for anyone wishing to talk about this further elsewhere- I'll just make an email thread for those who do. It is not in good interest to clog the main artery of this part of the community with something many people either want to talk about further or really don't want to talk about at all. We can redirect the drivel somewhere else such that it is no longer drivel to those who are a party to it.
This message is likely riddled with formatting and typographical mistakes. I apologize.
Reach out if desired. Sources below.
Alex
1. https://www.justice.gov/epstein/files/DataSet%209/EFTA00830796.pdf
2. https://www.justice.gov/epstein/files/DataSet%209/EFTA01004801.pdf
3. https://www.justice.gov/epstein/files/DataSet%209/EFTA01003966.pdf
4. https://www.justice.gov/epstein/files/DataSet%209/EFTA00479255.pdf
5. https://www.justice.gov/epstein/files/DataSet%209/EFTA01019549.pdf
6. https://www.justice.gov/epstein/files/DataSet%209/EFTA01004641.pdf
7. https://www.justice.gov/epstein/files/DataSet%2011/EFTA02598225.pdf
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Cathal Garvey
2:18 PM (3 hours ago) 2:18 PM
to Diybio
Wow, reveals new and exciting forms of reprehensible child abuse by Epstein, enthusiastically facilitated by someone from this community. I wasn't actually expecting it to be this bad and, yet
Is the news media aware that Epstein was planning an underground designer-baby-and-cloning operation, yet? Because JFC
Thanks for contributing actual information, Alex.
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29 Apr 2026, 18:49 by alexa...@gmail.com:
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Cathal Garvey
2:20 PM (3 hours ago) 2:20 PM
to 'Cathal Garvey' via DIYbio
alexaxon62
2:41 PM (2 hours ago) 2:41 PM
to diy...@googlegroups.com
It seems that several high- to moderate-visibility broadcasting companies picked up on "designer babies"... Bryan's name is mentioned in several of these, including on articles by the Telegraph relayed through Yahoo Finance, Futurism, Daily Mail relayed through MSN, Truthdig, WION, and coda (published yesterday). As in the report by the BBC and others, some invoke the term "designer babies" without unpacking it fully or mentioning Bryan by name, as, of course, there is much to unpack.
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Bryan Bishop
2:45 PM (2 hours ago) 2:45 PM
to diy...@googlegroups.com, Bryan Bishop
On Wed, Apr 29, 2026 at 1:18 PM 'Cathal Garvey' via DIYbio <diy...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Wow, reveals new and exciting forms of reprehensible child abuse by Epstein, enthusiastically facilitated by someone from this community. I wasn't actually expecting it to be this bad and, yet
Anything regarding Jeffrey Epstein tends to run very hot. That name has become a lightning rod for anyone to imagine any evil or disgusting thing they want. I hope for reasonable minds and the evidence to prevail. I hope people ask questions before jumping to whatever their absolute worst imagination can drum up.
Anyone who wants to discuss the technology that I've advocated for out in the open for more than a decade, then you're more than welcome. But I won't engage in any witch hunts.
Want to learn more about my efforts in human embryo genetic engineering? Take a look here on my site:
https://diyhpl.us/wiki/designer-baby-faq/
Anyone who wants to discuss the technology that I've advocated for out in the open for more than a decade, then you're more than welcome. But I won't engage in any witch hunts.
Want to learn more about my efforts in human embryo genetic engineering? Take a look here on my site:
https://diyhpl.us/wiki/designer-baby-faq/
Thank you,
- Bryan
https://x.com/kanzure
https://x.com/kanzure
Cathal Garvey
2:56 PM (2 hours ago) 2:56 PM
to Diybio
Human cloning is 100% reprehensible, and engineering for anything but the remedy of unambiguous disease alleles is ego-trip TESCREAL horseshit.
Even if it weren't being done with a group of people who openly write about eugenic murder of disabled and elderly people, it would still be reprehensible on its face.
You're right: the objectification of infants for ego-stroking edgelord crypto billionaires "runs hot".
Fuck this.
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29 Apr 2026, 19:45 by kan...@gmail.com:
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Matt Woslum
3:59 PM (1 hour ago) 3:59 PM
to diy...@googlegroups.com
100%? That's "absolute" BS. Therapeutic cloning isn't all about eugenics — think totipotent ESCs and organ replacement. What's reprehensible about either of those benefits that isn't rooted in religious superstition and raw emotion?
Now, if you're talking about the bioethics of having a complete individual exist who is extremely similar to you — that's a different issue entirely. Probably one for a psychiatrist.
Will someone remind me why we're talking about frikkin' Epstein on the DIYBio chat? FFS.
From: 'Cathal Garvey' via DIYbio <diy...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2026 11:55:32 AM
To: Diybio <diy...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [DIYbio] Re: So...
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2026 11:55:32 AM
To: Diybio <diy...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [DIYbio] Re: So...
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Cathal Garvey
4:07 PM (1 hour ago) 4:07 PM
to Diybio
That isn't the application they were planning. It was explicitly the psych-case cloning of individuals. The articles shared uplist are revealing.
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alexaxon62
4:12 PM (1 hour ago) 4:12 PM
to diy...@googlegroups.com
Matt, very few people in this group would claim that clones cell lines for exclusively therapeutic purposes or that gene editing to prevent hereditary disease is somehow inherently wrong. Cathal specifically qualified "anything but the remedy of unambiguous disease alleles". The precise language around the intended project was, verbatim, "the first live birth of a human designer baby, and possibly a human clone, within 5 years", which is markedly different to what you are implying is the subject of ethical questioning. Regardless, your mention of distrust rooted in "religious superstition and raw emotion" does affirm that it exists, and widely so; and how is one to work, or convince others of their work's virtue, when subjects like this cannot be addressed?
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/diybio/OrPqVdc--F-9%40cathalgarvey.me.
alexaxon62
4:12 PM (1 hour ago) 4:12 PM
to diy...@googlegroups.com
cloned*
Bryan Bishop
4:34 PM (21 minutes ago) 4:34 PM
to diy...@googlegroups.com, Bryan Bishop, alexaxon62
On Wed, Apr 29, 2026 at 3:12 PM alexaxon62 <alexa...@gmail.com> wrote:
Matt, very few people in this group would claim that clones cell lines for exclusively therapeutic purposes or that gene editing to prevent hereditary disease is somehow inherently wrong. Cathal specifically qualified "anything but the remedy of unambiguous disease alleles". The precise language around the intended project was, verbatim, "the first live birth of a human designer baby, and possibly a human clone, within 5 years", which is markedly different to what you are implying is the subject of ethical questioning. Regardless, your mention of distrust rooted in "religious superstition and raw emotion" does affirm that it exists, and widely so; and how is one to work, or convince others of their work's virtue, when subjects like this cannot be addressed?
There seems to be some confusion here about what world we are living in.
The first births have, since then, already happened. Genetically modified human children already walk the earth. IVF is real and there are millions of people alive today because of these technologies.
As for news articles, you should read them with a grain of salt. Many journalists tend to be controlled by incentives that veer toward sensationalism and a lack of investigative depth. Some might even have a limited understanding of the subject matter.
I will also add that you don't need to be personally convinced of the virtue of these technologies because they aren't being forced upon you and you're free to forego them.
I will also add that you don't need to be personally convinced of the virtue of these technologies because they aren't being forced upon you and you're free to forego them.
Abizar Lakdawalla
4:49 PM (6 minutes ago) 4:49 PM
to diy...@googlegroups.com
"The less you know about something - the more confident you are about that" - the philosophers dilemma
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Dan Kolis
4:54 PM (2 minutes ago) 4:54 PM
to diy...@googlegroups.com
This constitutes a complete waste of time. Period. end of story.
there is ostensibly a purpose to this thread. This isn't it.
there is ostensibly a purpose to this thread. This isn't it.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/diybio/35c66b80-5fdd-435a-85df-4c019a116c4d%40gmail.com.
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