diy MRSA antibiotic using garlic, reproduced in lab
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Jonathan Cline
Mar 31, 2015, 7:46:35 PM3/31/15
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Today's big pharma ain't got nuthin on
9th century Anglo-Saxon diybio?
""A one thousand year old Anglo-Saxon remedy for eye infections which originates from a manuscript in the British Library has been found to kill the modern-day superbug MRSA in an unusual research collaboration at The University of Nottingham.""
Bald's eye salve [as listed in BBC news article, see ref below]:
...
"" Early results on the 'potion', tested in vitro at Nottingham and backed up by mouse model tests at a university in the United States, are, in the words of the US collaborator, “astonishing”. The solution has had remarkable effects on Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA) which is one of the most antibiotic-resistant bugs costing modern health services billions. ""
Ref: University press release
http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/news/pressreleases/2015/march/ancientbiotics---a-medieval-remedy-for-modern-day-superbugs.aspx
BBC News article
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-32117815
""" A 1,000-year-old treatment for eye infections could hold the key to killing antibiotic-resistant superbugs, experts have said. Scientists recreated a 9th Century Anglo-Saxon remedy using onion, garlic and part of a cow's stomach. They were "astonished" to find it almost completely wiped out methicillin-resistant staphylococcus aureus, otherwise known as MRSA. Their findings will be presented at a national microbiology conference. The remedy was found in Bald's Leechbook - an old English manuscript containing instructions on various treatments held in the British Library. Anglo-Saxon expert Dr Christina Lee, from the University of Nottingham, translated the recipe for an "eye salve", which includes garlic, onion or leeks, wine and cow bile."""
...
""A one thousand year old Anglo-Saxon remedy for eye infections which originates from a manuscript in the British Library has been found to kill the modern-day superbug MRSA in an unusual research collaboration at The University of Nottingham.""
Bald's eye salve [as listed in BBC news article, see ref below]:
Equal amounts of garlic and another allium (onion or leek), finely chopped and crushed in a mortar for two minutes.
Add 25ml (0.87 fl oz) of English wine - taken from a historic vineyard near Glastonbury.
Dissolve bovine salts in distilled water, add and then keep
chilled for nine days at 4C.
...
"" Early results on the 'potion', tested in vitro at Nottingham and backed up by mouse model tests at a university in the United States, are, in the words of the US collaborator, “astonishing”. The solution has had remarkable effects on Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA) which is one of the most antibiotic-resistant bugs costing modern health services billions. ""
Ref: University press release
http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/news/pressreleases/2015/march/ancientbiotics---a-medieval-remedy-for-modern-day-superbugs.aspx
BBC News article
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-32117815
""" A 1,000-year-old treatment for eye infections could hold the key to killing antibiotic-resistant superbugs, experts have said. Scientists recreated a 9th Century Anglo-Saxon remedy using onion, garlic and part of a cow's stomach. They were "astonished" to find it almost completely wiped out methicillin-resistant staphylococcus aureus, otherwise known as MRSA. Their findings will be presented at a national microbiology conference. The remedy was found in Bald's Leechbook - an old English manuscript containing instructions on various treatments held in the British Library. Anglo-Saxon expert Dr Christina Lee, from the University of Nottingham, translated the recipe for an "eye salve", which includes garlic, onion or leeks, wine and cow bile."""
...
"" The team's findings will be presented at the Annual Conference of the Society for General Microbiology, in Birmingham."
## Jonathan Cline ## jcl...@ieee.org ## Mobile: +1-805-617-0223 ########################
leaking pen
Mar 31, 2015, 8:04:58 PM3/31/15
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Yeah.. I'm not sure what the surprise is. It reminds me of George Carlin bit about "happens to be black". Allicin is one of the first sulfa antibiotics we used, and is a direct extract from Garlic. With the salts and such that are in there, you're basically breaking down the fats and protiens and extracting it, and Sulfa drugs have already been shown to be amazingly effective on Mersa (and yet no one prescribes it... sigh)
The wonder of the whole thing is how detailed the process is for the time frame, not that it works.
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Nathan McCorkle
Mar 31, 2015, 8:16:00 PM3/31/15
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On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 5:04 PM, leaking pen <itsa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yeah.. I'm not sure what the surprise is. It reminds me of George Carlin
> bit about "happens to be black". Allicin is one of the first sulfa
> antibiotics we used, and is a direct extract from Garlic.
Does that mean people with sulfa drug allergies can't eat garlic, or
> Yeah.. I'm not sure what the surprise is. It reminds me of George Carlin
> bit about "happens to be black". Allicin is one of the first sulfa
> antibiotics we used, and is a direct extract from Garlic.
likely don't like to eat it?
Simon Quellen Field
Mar 31, 2015, 8:53:03 PM3/31/15
to diybio, Jonathan Cline
That will teach them to get eye infections.
Let's make a concoction out of garlic and onion juice, wine, and some cow digestive juices and put that in their eye. I bet they don't come back complaining about any eye infections anytime soon.
I'll also bet there are lots of other things that kill MRSA in vitro.
Sulfuric acid come to mind. Or just a lot of salt and alcohol.
:-)
On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 4:46 PM, Jonathan Cline <jcl...@ieee.org> wrote:
Jonathan Cline
Mar 31, 2015, 9:14:08 PM3/31/15
to Simon Quellen Field, diybio, Jonathan Cline
Testing in the U.S. included skin
infections on mice [ref video
http://www.bbc.com/news/health-32124642 ]
Curiously the news report concludes: "One day, this could lead to a new drug" .. what? I'm perfectly fine with putting the garlic, onion, a couple drops of cholic acid, and a two-buck chuck mash on a skin infection. It's vegan after all :-P and cheaper than pharmacare. At least it's the wrong conclusion for the news article in my opinion. A truly wondrous conclusion would be: "We're releasing a simplified recipe on our web site which lists grocery store equivalents so others can experiment with the recipe, while formal testing continues. Meanwhile, you might also like to try this recipe as a tasty spread on a nice baguette with a bit of oil."
Curiously the news report concludes: "One day, this could lead to a new drug" .. what? I'm perfectly fine with putting the garlic, onion, a couple drops of cholic acid, and a two-buck chuck mash on a skin infection. It's vegan after all :-P and cheaper than pharmacare. At least it's the wrong conclusion for the news article in my opinion. A truly wondrous conclusion would be: "We're releasing a simplified recipe on our web site which lists grocery store equivalents so others can experiment with the recipe, while formal testing continues. Meanwhile, you might also like to try this recipe as a tasty spread on a nice baguette with a bit of oil."
## Jonathan Cline ## jcl...@ieee.org ## Mobile: +1-805-617-0223 ########################
Nathan McCorkle
Mar 31, 2015, 9:17:56 PM3/31/15
to diybio
On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 6:14 PM, Jonathan Cline <jcl...@ieee.org> wrote:
> formal testing continues. Meanwhile, you might also like to try this recipe
> as a tasty spread on a nice baguette with a bit of oil."
Formal /tasting/ can also proceed.
> formal testing continues. Meanwhile, you might also like to try this recipe
> as a tasty spread on a nice baguette with a bit of oil."
Not to mention all the marinades you could make...
--
-Nathan
Simon Quellen Field
Mar 31, 2015, 9:28:48 PM3/31/15
to diybio
Of course, the way sulfa drugs work is that they mimic the B vitamin para amino benzoic acid (PABA). The bacteria take it up instead of the vitamin, and they can't live without PABA.
So the mix might not work unless you stop getting PABA. And if you eat a lot of the mix, you might want to make sure you are getting enough PABA (unless you have an infection...).
A similar antibiotic approach is used by chickens to prevent bacterial spoilage of eggs. Chicken eggs contain large amounts of avidin in the raw egg white. Avidin binds to the B vitamin biotin, so the bacteria can't get any. Cook your egg whites to denature the avidin.
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Dan
Mar 31, 2015, 9:30:29 PM3/31/15
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iirc it kills up to 90%.
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leaking pen
Mar 31, 2015, 11:10:52 PM3/31/15
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Yes, some people with sulfa allergies have issues with garlic.
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Jonathan Cline
Apr 1, 2015, 1:40:46 AM4/1/15
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I see what you're saying yet if it's so obvious or unsurprising then presumably it should have been published within the past couple decades already (or has it? Not that I remember.). MRSA is important. Raise your hand if you've been prescribed the typical metabolic-nuclear-assault antibiotics that you didn't want or possibly did not need.
Oh right, a simple garlic combo mix wouldn't be investigated because: "Let's not work on that, it's not novel enough", or, "There's no patent opportunities here, there's no new I.P.", or, "That type of work is a dead end." The same "lack of characterization" problem of biotech. Not sure where the supposed billions of R&D dollars searching for new antibiotics is going, eh? The video article mentions the key phrases from lab members: "We didn't expect anything" ... "This was a side project for the lab". Of course this article could be headline fluff or university P. R. hype, won't know until refs are scrutinized so it's best not to take any of it too seriously until then.
(Though anyway, I'm a dude who chops my garlic and leaves it sitting on the counter for several minutes before cooking with it to increase magic and even then I add it at the end so as to not expose it to significant cooking heat, under auspices that it's reducing my statistical risk for typical bad things, so whatta I know. -- Ref, I think, maybe in here: Analytical Sciences Vol. 25 (2009) , No. 1 p.137, by Yanbei ZHU, Kazumi INAGAKI, Hiroki HARAGUCHI and Koichi CHIBA.)
A related factoid here is that I didn't know otherwise healthy people would want to regularly take bovine bile acid supplements. Eww.
Oh right, a simple garlic combo mix wouldn't be investigated because: "Let's not work on that, it's not novel enough", or, "There's no patent opportunities here, there's no new I.P.", or, "That type of work is a dead end." The same "lack of characterization" problem of biotech. Not sure where the supposed billions of R&D dollars searching for new antibiotics is going, eh? The video article mentions the key phrases from lab members: "We didn't expect anything" ... "This was a side project for the lab". Of course this article could be headline fluff or university P. R. hype, won't know until refs are scrutinized so it's best not to take any of it too seriously until then.
(Though anyway, I'm a dude who chops my garlic and leaves it sitting on the counter for several minutes before cooking with it to increase magic and even then I add it at the end so as to not expose it to significant cooking heat, under auspices that it's reducing my statistical risk for typical bad things, so whatta I know. -- Ref, I think, maybe in here: Analytical Sciences Vol. 25 (2009) , No. 1 p.137, by Yanbei ZHU, Kazumi INAGAKI, Hiroki HARAGUCHI and Koichi CHIBA.)
A related factoid here is that I didn't know otherwise healthy people would want to regularly take bovine bile acid supplements. Eww.
Cathal Garvey
Apr 1, 2015, 7:23:04 AM4/1/15
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That news headline was spectacularly out of scale with the significance
of the news. Bile salts, red wine (alcohol), allicin and various other
volotiles, and in-vitro or on topical application it kills bacteria.
AMAZING! Except that topical alcohol alone will achieve the same with
less complexity and fewer chances of allergy or skin reaction.
This doesn't amaze so much for external uses, because your options for
external treatment are so much broader already. Even for eyes, you can
be a bit more brutal than you can be with a pill, and there are whole
classes of antibiotic that can be used externally that are inappropriate
or useless for internal uses.
The problem with internal antibiotics isn't killing MRSA, that's
trivial. It's killing MRSA and co *inside the body* using agents that
are effective, selective, and safe. If you eat that cocktail it's highly
unlikely to be effective, it'll be at least partially selective, and
it's likely to be safe, by my guesstimate. It's hardly a blockbuster,
but it's interesting to see the kinds of work they did back when
distillation wasn't commonplace and poultices needed that extra oomph to
make up for insufficient alcohol.
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of the news. Bile salts, red wine (alcohol), allicin and various other
volotiles, and in-vitro or on topical application it kills bacteria.
AMAZING! Except that topical alcohol alone will achieve the same with
less complexity and fewer chances of allergy or skin reaction.
This doesn't amaze so much for external uses, because your options for
external treatment are so much broader already. Even for eyes, you can
be a bit more brutal than you can be with a pill, and there are whole
classes of antibiotic that can be used externally that are inappropriate
or useless for internal uses.
The problem with internal antibiotics isn't killing MRSA, that's
trivial. It's killing MRSA and co *inside the body* using agents that
are effective, selective, and safe. If you eat that cocktail it's highly
unlikely to be effective, it'll be at least partially selective, and
it's likely to be safe, by my guesstimate. It's hardly a blockbuster,
but it's interesting to see the kinds of work they did back when
distillation wasn't commonplace and poultices needed that extra oomph to
make up for insufficient alcohol.
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David Murphy
Apr 1, 2015, 8:41:59 AM4/1/15
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just substitute "MRSA" for cancer cells.
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Jonathan Cline
Feb 18, 2016, 11:41:05 AM2/18/16
to DIYbio, cathal...@cathalgarvey.me
Updated story "Ancient recipe that could be a modern cure" 14 February 2016 - http://www.bbc.com/news/health-35550165
Ingredients tested on mouse
Onion or Leek
Organic wine
Garlic
Cow Bile
Ferment for "9 days and nights"
"Has better results than the current last line of defense"
Amazing that alternative medicine was discussed in this group last week when modern lab investigations such as the above are poo-poo'ed.
Ingredients tested on mouse
Onion or Leek
Organic wine
Garlic
Cow Bile
Ferment for "9 days and nights"
"Has better results than the current last line of defense"
Amazing that alternative medicine was discussed in this group last week when modern lab investigations such as the above are poo-poo'ed.
On Wednesday, April 1, 2015 at 4:23:04 AM UTC-7, Cathal Garvey wrote:
That news headline was spectacularly out of scale with the significance
of the news.
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Cathal (Phone)
Feb 18, 2016, 1:43:39 PM2/18/16
to diy...@googlegroups.com
It should not surprise anyone that a topical treatment of volatile antibiotics (onions, leeks, garlic), alcohol (wine), and bile salts (so differentially toxic they're used in selective media), *when topically applied*, kills MRSA.
Newsflash: MRSA is not hard to kill. What's hard is killing it with an injected or ingested medicine that doesn't also harm the patient. That's what makes antibiotics special.
I've got a great, ancient topical method for killing MRSA, too: cauterisation. Where's my BBC piece?
Newsflash: MRSA is not hard to kill. What's hard is killing it with an injected or ingested medicine that doesn't also harm the patient. That's what makes antibiotics special.
I've got a great, ancient topical method for killing MRSA, too: cauterisation. Where's my BBC piece?
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Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Nathan McCorkle
Feb 18, 2016, 6:58:39 PM2/18/16
to diybio
"Effective, but not selective." A key phrase I wish to have learned as a single-digit-aged person (rather than in College). I always wondered as a kid, why not just splash alcohol or bleach onto invading disease organisms, or cancer.
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-Nathan
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