Food Safe Bioluminecence?

[Brian Degger]

Broke out the conversation...

You can also go for fluorescence... tonic water fluoresces under uv light.
For most bio luminescence it has to be very dark to start with.
Start thinking about a space where you can't see your hand in front of
your face. (think about this before "whether it is safe to eat")

On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 10:15 AM, 'Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck' via
DIYbio <diy...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> HI to all,
> I hope not to divert the topic too much from previous question, which I
> unfortunatelly don't have an answer to however I wonder Patric (and others)
> would you know any type of bio-luminescent microbe which would be food safe,
> preferably non GMO? We are preparing with our project Food Hacking Base
> (fhb) for 31c3 in Hamburg and I would like to make some food, either some
> agar based gels with some bio-luminescent microbe gorwing on the top of it,
> or I would like to make a liquid culture as a beverage - in this case
> probably making one brew with the bio-luminescent microbe and mixing it
> later on with probiotic polyculture like kombucha, milk kefir or water kefir
> based ferments. The purpose of this project is to attract attention to food
> biotech, no practical application at the moment except if your light bulb go
> off in a dark cellar ...
>
> Many thanks for any ideas, I'm not starting to investigate on the topic,
> this may take longer to develop which is OK.
>
> Sincerely from Jeju,
>
> FAA
>
> On Monday, November 10, 2014 3:34:57 PM UTC+9, Patrik D'haeseleer wrote:

----------------------------------------
Brian Degger
twitter: @drbrian

http://makerspace.org.uk
http://transitlab.org
----------------------------------------

[Mega [Andreas Stuermer]]

The noctiluca algae, it may be able too feed on kombucha? But these algae have a complicated day-night rythm and will then only glow in the night. 

[Mega [Andreas Stuermer]]

Hm, thinking about it. Unicellular algea will have a hard time to attack a multicllular fungus, whithout exoenymes... 

[Dakota Hamill]

Lichen are interesting in that they are fungi that have algae or cyanobacteria inside them as hostages/symbiots.  Must be some interesting cell signalling going on there

On Nov 11, 2014 7:24 AM, "Mega [Andreas Stuermer]" <masters...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hm, thinking about it. Unicellular algea will have a hard time to attack a multicllular fungus, whithout exoenymes... 

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[Patrik D'haeseleer]

Yeah, I agree - stick with fluorescence rather than bioluminescence! A lot more light production, and a lot more edible choices!

I don't know of any bioluminescent organisms that are known to be actually edible. I know some of the bioluminescent fungi are toxic. And although some (not all!) of the bioluminescent Vibrio are non-pathogenic, I definitely wouldn't want to eat them. If you're determined, I would think that fireflies may be your best bet for a bioluminescent organism that could potentially be edible. But that's just a guess, based on the fact that many insects are edible...

Fluorescent and edible - here you have tons of choices! Tonic water (quinine), turmeric, A and B vitamins, chlorophyll, etc...

Patrik

[Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck]

Hi to all,
thanks for the answers I will go through that focusing on the fluorescent options at least for now.

I'll get back later reporting on what I did find out.

Sincerely,

FAA

[BioGuy]

I was about to mention something about fireflies. A while ago I really wanted to make some kind of bioluminescent beer, or kombucha, if the alcohol was too strong in beer. I looked into fireflies for a while but it looked like they may be toxic - but I have no idea if this is related to the bioluminescence pathway or is separate. I believe it is related to a groups of steroids lucibufagins. Though I don't know if they're present in all species of fireflies or just a few.

[Cathal (Phone)]

It's unlikely to be their luciferin, but maybe.

The Vibrio luciferin isn't toxic, anyway (in reasonable quantity); it's used as a flavouring, in fact! Tetradecanal (not -ol), there are MSDS for it and all.

--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

[Cathal (Phone)]

..in case that sounded like a suggestion that eating Vibrio spp is safe, please disregard. I'm only referring to the luciferin pathway. Even the Vibrios that aren't virulent are usually quite toxic.

On 18 November 2014 09:26:01 GMT+00:00, BioGuy <justin....@gmail.com> wrote:

[Rikke Rasmussen]

Have used flourescein to great effect for this purpose in the past. Don't know how food safe it's considered, though among other things, it's used for intravenous flourescent tracing in surgery, so probably not super toxic. I and a good number of others have eaten quite a bit of the stuff w/ no observed negative effects.

/Rikke

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[Nathan McCorkle]

On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 1:29 AM, Cathal (Phone)
<cathal...@cathalgarvey.me> wrote:
> It's unlikely to be their luciferin, but maybe.
>
> The Vibrio luciferin isn't toxic, anyway (in reasonable quantity); it's used
> as a flavouring, in fact! Tetradecanal (not -ol), there are MSDS for it and
> all.

Do you know what it tastes like or what they use it for flavoring in?

[Cathal Garvey]

I don't recall, but as a flavouring I think the associated fatty acid is
more often called Myristic acid, so the aldehyde may be called myristic
aldehyde.

[John Griessen]

On 11/18/2014 12:02 PM, Rikke Rasmussen wrote:
> Don't know how food safe it's considered, though among other things, it's used for intravenous flourescent tracing in surgery, so
> probably not super toxic.

It's a "wear rubber gloves" chemical. Since forever. Flourescein -- as in, don't get it on your skin flourescein.


wikipedia: Intravenous use has the most reported adverse reactions, including sudden death, but this may reflect greater use
rather than greater risk. Both oral and topical uses have been reported to cause anaphylaxis,[13][14] including one case of
anaphylaxis with cardiac arrest (resuscitated) following topical use in an eye drop.

[Dakota Hamill]

I tasted chewing tobacco with my eye once in high school by accident.  Probably hurt worse worse than fluorescein .

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[BioGuy]

Ha! Do you have a link for the luciferin being used as a food flavoring? Sounds interesting. Found this doing a quick search: http://blog.khymos.org/2009/02/11/the-flemish-primitives-glowing-lollipops-part-4/ <--Are they all unknowingly test subjects? LOL

[Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck]

Really nice info, thanks to all for sharing! I'm definitely interested in making glowing kombucha and other brews/foods mostly for "presentational/promotional purposes". I've been brewing for many years with kombucha culture and last year I've started to play with the microcellulose biofilm produced by the SCOBY. I've to put it on halt but some of the results were quite good, my hope was actually to use it in a way as a insulator around 5 V circuits - I hope to use it in our Experimental Incubator which next prototype (without this feature alas) we will present at 31c3 in Hamburg. My favorite way to make the kombucha glowing would be to introduce into the culture some "natural" microbe which would actually "demestify" and live there producing what ever type of bioluminiscence/fluorescence possible and still be food safe.

Anyway nice info especially the last link to the Bruce Bryan's work!

Sincerely,

FAA