miniPCR is live on kickstarter

[Zeke AS]

Hi Everyone,

I wanted to share the link to our kickstarter campaign for our PCR machine. Early birds start at $399!!

miniPCR: A DNA Discovery System for Everyone is now LIVE in Kickstarter! 

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/minipcr/minipcr-a-dna-discovery-system-for-everyone

Likely the best opportunity ever to get started in the world of DNA analysis. 

Please spread the word and pledge!

This project was many years in the making and started at Templaman Automation with the help of many people there. See more info on the kickstarter page.

Thanks for your support!!

[Kermit Henson]

Anyone from Europe who wish to share a bulk? I believe it is a way to reduce shipping costs

[Andy Chen]

$200 for international shipping....? Seriously?

[Mike Petersen]

I´m interested. I´m from Germany. Where are you from? Anyone else from Europe?

[scoc...@gmail.com]

The obviously have to ship it by paddle-boat. Seems super reasonable if that's the method in question...

I don't want to seem rude but that price point is ridiculous. Not just int'l shipping but the device itself. I STILL have yet to hear of any passable justification for the device being so damn expensive for what it is...or what its not. I wouldn't even be able to do an overnight ligation since it can't get colder that ~22C. I'd pay $250 retail. Maximum.

Sebastian S. Cocioba
CEO & Founder
New York Botanics, LLC
Plant Biotech R&D

---

From: Andy Chen
Sent: ‎10/‎31/‎2014 2:42 PM
To: diy...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [DIYbio] miniPCR is live on kickstarter

$200 for international shipping....? Seriously?

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[John Griessen]

On 10/31/2014 01:56 PM, scoc...@gmail.com wrote:
> I don't want to seem rude but that price point is ridiculous.

Not just int'l shipping but the device itself.

I think miniPCR has an enclosure design that is nice looking,
but with laborious assembly time required.
Enclosures for a specialized thing with air flow paths, light paths, etc
need to be a custom shape which can be made by milling machine in plastic in
low volumes, then the same shape molded via a mid volume injection-mold-tool
in aluminum like protomold sells. Whoever is assembling that clear acrylic
is getting paid, which is driving the sell price up.

[Mike Petersen]

Hi Sebastian,

is there any PCR machine that you could recommend for a DIY biologist, that has a reasonable price and works reliable?
Since I´m in europe, the shipping costs also do matter, 200 dollars only for shipping is way to much :(
Thank you

Mike

[scoc...@gmail.com]

That's a difficult question to answer since new machines are very expensive and the used market varies from region to region.

I started my lab with a GeneAmp 9600. It's a big beast but reliable. I bought it, used of course, for $250 USD. It uses car antifreeze coolant as its refrigerant and can be maintained easily with minimal effort. It will surely outlive me!

It's a very large and heavy machine so finding a supplier within your own country may be difficult. If you do find one, and can't seem to find another of its more recent models, make sure you ask the seller to run the diagnostics tests especially the CHILLER TEST and to send you a screenshot of the device stating CHILLER TEST PASSED. Most machines sold on eBay are broken and more often then not, especially on newer peltier driven machines, the peltier device is fried and can't cool anymore.

In general you should look for a machine that has a working heated lid, 0.2mL tube block, at least 24 wells, and passed all available on-board diagnostics. I got lucky and found an Edvotek Edvocycler on eBay for $350. It's a decent machine and I've used it to build all my plant constructs. It can't do stepwise temp or time increments and can't reliably go down to 4c or hold a constant temp for more than 30min without the heat block falling into a thermal run-away and crashing, but for intro stuff if and only if you can find it cheap, go for it.

The later models of the geneAmp like the 2400 or if you are lucky and find a 9700 or 2720 working are also good. Price points that are fair for any used peltier-type is no higher than $600 and 300 for the old 9600. Biometra also has the really nice but rarely found working UNO. It's red, compact, and if anything works really well as a precise heat block for restriction digests or ligations (I use one currently for that).

There is also the Techne Genius and all the knock-off brands copying the design. The controls are funky in a bad way but it does its job if you find one that works.

The GeneAmp series of pcr machines all have very easy to use and straight forward diagnostics in the utilities menu and asking a seller to run it and share photos of results is a good way to get peace of mind when it comes to buying a used pcr. I got burned a few times with non functional units because seller had no way of testing. I asked them to power it up with me on the phone and listened for error beeps. Read the diagnostics part of the manual to the device whose price point you are interested in and if possible, walk the seller through the steps. You may find a diamond in the junk pile of used pcrs. I recommend these devices out of personal experience. There are many others out there but these models in particular I either own or have played with/repaired in the past.

Best of luck to you!

Sebastian S. Cocioba
CEO & Founder
New York Botanics, LLC
Plant Biotech R&D

---

From: Mike Petersen
Sent: ‎11/‎1/‎2014 11:23 AM
To: diy...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [DIYbio] miniPCR is live on kickstarter

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/diybio/8f972907-c3ca-4a2d-8902-82c4831373f7%40googlegroups.com.

[Alex Murer [Open Biolab Graz Austria]]

I don't want to seem rude either, but you obviously don't have much of an idea of biotech business. Even at that "high" price they won't make any serious money, simply because the market is way too small.

Am Freitag, 31. Oktober 2014 19:56:26 UTC+1 schrieb Sebastian:

[Dakota Hamill]

I think it's a very polished looking product that rivals openPCR as a "cottage industry" type hand-made biotech goods company.  You can of course acquire a cheaper thermal cycler off ebay with the chance that it works, but that machine will probably weigh 20 lbs + and be bulky as heck and not have a heated lid.  

I do wish there were more than 8 wells for the price, but besides that I think this is a great example of a company that is trying to build a functional, and most importantly, highly mobile machine.  It's advantage (in my mind)  is that it is incredibly small and I could fit it in my pocket.

I think if we want to have comparable biotech hardware for better prices we need to support companies like this to give them the cash-flow to hopefully build even better equipment.   Or at the very least, I suppose this is the place to make comments on what specifications you'd like to see.

Sebastian, I never knew it couldn't hold 4-12C?  22C is really the lowest?  

That aside, perhaps if enough money is raised these types of changes could come into play, now, or in the next iteration.  

As far as the international shipping goes, is $200 a typo?  I've sent things 100x as big to Thailand for 25% the cost.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/diybio/2500b555-2682-417d-afd2-dcb5ec7013ed%40googlegroups.com.

[Mac Cowell]

Here are open source plans for the first iteration of personalpcr, which later became minipcr. This is a two-tube thermocycler without a lid designed as an arduino shield. Developed by a collaboration b/w templeman automation and (rip) cofactor bio.

https://github.com/100ideas/PersonalPCRv1

Mac

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/diybio/CAGdeWmSe4sj_vq-u%2BDjGF8mX3fXN_-dC7UoWfxg%3DNPSxnmxzqA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Sebastian Kraves]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/minipcr/minipcr-a-dna-discovery-system-for-everyone

has adjusted international shipping rates (no longer using paddle boat...) based on supporters feedback.

cheers

s

[Sebastian S Cocioba]

+1 for listening to feedback. 😃

Sent from my iPad

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[Biodidact]

Fabulous! Our Biotech community lab plans on going to rural schools in our state (NM) with our workshops. This is what we need! Thank you!!!

Thank you so much.

We are starting a community lab in Los Alamos, New Mexico called Biodidact. Although NM ranks #1 in the number of PhDs and engineers as a percentage of the workforce (because of 2 major national labs), it is still mostly a rural state and we rank 46 out of 50 states in science education. Some kids will never get an opportunity to even consider science and that's what we are trying to change. Your kit will help tremendously in our case.
I have already invested a significant amount of my personal savings to purchase expensive equipment and rent a space. We were starting to network with local engineers to start to build a cheaper and more portable DNA analysis apparatus...you have just provided the answer. I am so excited. Thank you!

We hope to start our workshops this coming Spring so I hope we can get the full system around that time. I see that you are already funded, but I want the full system so I will back the project ASAP.  How much do you think the full system will cost after the campaign ends?...I probably would like to get more than 1 (maybe 2 more) once we have tested the system and are happy with it.

If you want to learn more about our space, please check out our website: biodidact.net.

We also started a small local campaign to help us purchase pipettes for the students. It is going very slow...we are not very good at advertising so we could use a little help.
Here is the link if you would like to share it with your backers and network: https://www.mainstreetcrowd.com/projects/DNA-barcoding-project/

Your feedback will be appreciated too if you have any time.

Thanks again!


Prisca

[Sebastian Kraves]

Prisca,

Thank you for the nice message. Your work is really awesome and inspiring. Seems like it would fill a big gap in rural NM - we had been involved early on with a group doing similar work but their funding ran out. Great that you're stepping in.

Now that our project is funded we'll work hard to deliver the complete system as soon as we can. But it's true that miniPCR delivery will start sooner, as outlined on our Kickstarter page. Based on the Kickstarter support we've seen, we are already piloting factory production of miniPCR and it's going smoothly.

Pricing of the Discovery System is still TBD but will likely increase a bit after the campaign. Our main focus is to keep making these tools ultra affordable. 

If you can take advantage of Kickstarter pledge levels, that's your best bet. We do have a 5 systems pledge -- I know that's a lot of cash, so I understand...

Other option would be to get several miniPCR machines now. Those will definitely be ready in Spring (or before), and we can work with you at that point on the other components. There's a 2-miniPCR machine pledge and a 5-machines pledge level.

Final suggestion: please feel free to share your awesome work via our Kickstarter comments page. Likely to be seen by many DNA-minded folks.

Stay in touch,
Sebastian
seb [at] minipcr.com