Safety of the RNA Corona Vaccine

[Mike Petersen]

Hello all,
How do you rate the safety of the new Corona vaccines, which are based on the principle of RNA vaccination?
Are there any studies online to read or are they not available to the public?
I wonder if you can realistically assess the risk at this point.
When I think about the Pandemrix vaccine in 2009 during the svine flu, where it was not known until years later that it caused narcolepsy in many cases due to an autoimmune reaction, it shows that one should be careful, especially with regard to the long-term effects.
Isn't there a great potential for autoimmune reactions especially with RNA vaccines? Thank you very much for your answers.

[Hans Wilms]

You either vaccinate and have a nanoparticle get RNA with a single gene of the virus into your cells, or risk pretty much the same thing happening but with an entire copy of the virus RNA genome. Also the dosage isn't controlled with the virus, and you become a lethal weapon against grandma.

Also, the narcolepsy you're talking about seemed to be caused by the virus, not the vaccine, as later research suggested. 

https://web.archive.org/web/20121001212919/http://med.stanford.edu/ism/2011/august/narcolepsy.html

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-Hans T. Wilms
Cell: 404-322-5824

[safrazine]

Thanks, Hans, I haven't heard anyone say it better than you did! I wish everyone could communicate it so simply and clearly!

-Ilan

[Jonathan Street]

The internet archive is great but you do miss any updates. The current url is: https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2011/08/study-draws-connection-between-narcolepsy-and-influenza.html

Not true for many news services but Stanford, and Emmanuel Mignot, do seem to care about communicating retractions. Take https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2013/12/h1n1-triggered-narcolepsy-may-stem-from-molecular-mimicry-study-finds.html as an example.

Link to the article itself: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21866560/

Also, the narcolepsy you're talking about seemed to be caused by the virus, not the vaccine, as later research suggested.

The article would seem to suggest that narcolepsy is caused by the virus and some, but not all, vaccines. The claim was that the Pandemrix vaccine causes narcolepsy, possibly due to specific adjuvants used. Neither the Pandemrix vaccine nor the suspected adjuvants were apparently included in the vaccines used in China where this study was conducted.

It looks like the narcolepsy rate was ~1 in 16,000. This is 6.25 per 100,000. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcolepsy#Epidemiology rates appear to vary substantially:

0.2 in Israel

6.25

50 in USA

600 in Japan

I'm not going to investigate further but if I had a family history of narcolepsy I would probably want to know which adjuvants are used in each vaccine. Fortunately we should soon have multiple vaccines available.

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[Mike Petersen]

Thank you for your contributions. I think the matter is complex and is an example that we should be quite humble towards the complexities in our bodies. As I understand the studies, it is not conclusively clear whether the adjuvants in Pandemrix did not contribute to provoking the occurrence of narcolepsy in the respective patients.
Even mechanisms of action that initially appear simple and safe, such as the new mRNA vaccine, can potentially harbor risks that we cannot assess at the present time. But this is only my opinion and of course I have no proof and of course I hope that everything goes well. But it is part of scientific thinking to be skeptical and to expect things that are not obvious at first sight in my humble opinion.

[Dixon Cox]

I always find this question rather silly.  RNA is simply a delivery method.  Is the question whether RNA is safe?  The answer is that large doses may trigger inflammatory response.  This is less likely with the modified RNA like Moderna's.  It is generally unlikely with either of them because they tested for it.

If that's not the question, then is the question whether having immunity against COVID-19 Spike protein safe?  Again, most likely yes, and mostly likely far more so than having it with full blown infection.

[Biology Discussions]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g9sFXXLJKo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbenQxveEm0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKjPr2QautI

[Zonie deep]

Think the rna triggers innate immune system?

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[Biology Discussions]

MADISON, Wis. (AP) — Authorities arrested a suburban Milwaukee pharmacist Thursday suspected of deliberately ruining hundreds of doses of coronavirus vaccine by removing them from refrigeration for two nights.

The arrest marks another setback in what has been a slower, messier start to vaccinate Americans than public health officials had expected. Leaders in Wisconsin and other states have been begging the Trump administration for more doses as health care workers and senior citizens line up for the lifesaving vaccine.

Police in Grafton, about 20 miles (32 kilometers) north of Milwaukee, said the Advocate Aurora Health pharmacist was arrested on suspicion of reckless endangerment, adulterating a prescription drug and criminal damage to property, all felonies. The pharmacist has been fired and police said in a news release that he was in jail. Police did not identify the pharmacist, saying he has not yet been formally charged.

His motive remains unclear. Police said that detectives believe he knew the spoiled doses would be useless and people who received them would mistakenly think they’d been vaccinated when they hadn’t.

Advocate Aurora Health Care Chief Medical Group Officer Jeff Bahr told reporters during a teleconference Thursday afternoon that the pharmacist deliberately removed 57 vials that held hundreds of doses of the Moderna vaccine from refrigeration at a Grafton medical center overnight on Dec. 24 into Dec. 25, returned them, then left them out again on the night of Dec. 25 into Saturday. The vials contained enough doses to inoculate 570 people.

A pharmacy technician discovered the vials outside the refrigerator on Saturday morning. Bahr said the pharmacist initially said that he had removed the vials to access other items in the refrigerator and had inadvertently failed to put them back.

The Moderna vaccine is viable for 12 hours outside refrigeration, so workers used the vaccine to inoculate 57 people before discarding the rest. Police said the discarded doses were worth between $8,000 and $11,000.

Bahr said health system officials grew more suspicious of the pharmacist as they reviewed the incident. After multiple interviews, the pharmacist acknowledged Wednesday that he removed the vaccine intentionally over the two nights, Bahr said.

That means that the doses people received Saturday are all but useless, he said. Moderna has told Aurora that there’s no safety concerns, but the hospital system is closely monitoring the people who received the spoiled doses, he said.

Bahr declined to comment on the pharmacist’s motive. He said the hospital system’s security protocols are sound.

“This was a situation involving a bad actor,” he said, “as opposed to a bad process.”

The number of COVID-19 cases in Wisconsin has been rising in recent days after dipping in early December. The state Department of Health Services reported 3,810 newly confirmed cases on Thursday, marking the third straight day of rising daily infections. The state has now seen 481,102 cases.

COVID-19 was a factor in 41 more deaths, pushing the state’s overall death toll to 4,859. The survival rate remained unchanged at 99%.

A little more than 47,150 people had been vaccinated in Wisconsin as of Monday morning, according to the latest data from the health agency. The state has been allocated 265,575 doses of both the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines. As of Monday morning, only about 157,000 doses had arrived.

Democratic Gov. Tony Evers wrote a letter to President Donald Trump earlier in December asking him to prioritize more doses for Wisconsin due to high case numbers, swamped hospitals and a lack of statewide mitigation mandates.

https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2021/01/01/wisconsin-pharmacist-arrested-for-deliberately-spoiling-covid-vaccines/

I hope its an isolated incident but expect anti-Vax conspiracies to escalate. Im pro vaccine research and anti-pandemic as every sane person should be but this is only going to question vaccine safety around the country. 

[Biology Discussions]

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/deliberately-spoiled-vaccines-conspiracy-thinking-and-health-professionals/

https://respectfulinsolence.com/2021/01/07/wakefields-back/

The People claiming conspiracy on Vaccines are Andrew Wakefield supporters. 

[Biology Discussions]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TMLtFed0Mg

You cannot separate politics from pandemics at this point.