free food

[christophe malvasio]

hi all
many peoples on our planet don't have enough food
many projects to give peoples free food had been rejected by those peoples
for example algae rejected cause the growing process was done with recycle ...
so is there a way that a common project for every one here can born to give free food for poor peoples ?
thanks 

[scoc...@gmail.com]

I think the issue is more of food distribution and infrastructure rather than an overall lack of food. Most developed nations could even be considered as having too much food. Think of how much food is wasted each day from the restaurant industry each day. Now think of how the hell we could possibly ship said food to people in need around the world without spoilage. Giving people free food rather than free land and farming equipment, government support, and education isn't the best idea. It will solve the acute symptoms but not the chronic situation.



Sebastian S. Cocioba
CEO & Founder
New York Botanics, LLC
Plant Biotech R&D

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From: christophe malvasio
Sent: ‎1/‎12/‎2015 10:15 AM
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Subject: [DIYbio] free food

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[Otto Heringer]

+1 to Sebastian.

It would be nice if the problem of hunger in the world was only because of lack of resources (ie, money, food and etc). Indeed, the problem is distribuition.

FIY, I was watching some nice Jhon Green's videos discussing this subject that you might like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vUgedVu0NA

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[Mega [Andreas Stuermer]]

What was the estimation? The Earth could easiily sustain 12 or 15 billion people, without GM crops. We'd only have to disribute the food equally. But who wants to do that? There's no money to be made from it.

Now if we had improved GM plants, we could use less fertilizer (good for the climate), but still, even if we could feed 100 billion people - would we? 

[Yunfan Jiang]

i think its the central enegy supplyment which limit the food distribution

people doing self-efficient farming for thousand years, then why its big farm is so popular today? because of the big farm could rise producting rate by using chemical fertilizer and farm machine

these elements can not be producted by a self-efficient farm itself which forced them to join the market, and market love high profit, so finally big farm became popular.

i think a self-own power station could solve this, especially when the power come from sunlight directly

for eg, you could made liquid nitrogen at home by using simple machines (such as air compressor)  ,the most cost is the power, if you have your own free power supply(via your solar station or other types) , you then got 

almost free(or very cheap) nitrogen fertilizer. check this link(http://www.instructables.com/id/Homemade-liquid-nitrogen-generator/) for home made liquid nitrogen

and you could use mushroom to producting plastic for daily use materials

BTW, please search this "Enzymatic transformation of nonfood biomass to starch"

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[Simon Quellen Field]

How do you plan to get nitrate fertilizer from liquid nitrogen?

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[Sebastian Cocioba]

I guess the haber process using electrolysis to produce the hydrogen needed. Seems very dangerous to store on a larger scale. The temperature and pressure would be a bit of an issue since that sounds more like a terrible accident waiting to happen. DIY liquid nitrogen would be nice for snap freezing and freeze drying stuffs, tho.

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[Yunfan Jiang]

yes, haber process is what i talk, and according to wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process), it only require about 15-25MPa, in my location(china), many cheap air compressors could stand with that, so its not that dangerous if you dont need factory producting rate. the only dangerous thing is the product itself .

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[Simon Quellen Field]

My point was that liquefying the gas is not a requirement or even an aid.

:-)

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[Matthew Bertram]

Only 25 MPa?!?!? This is about 3700psi. I assure you that is a lot of pressure for any DIY project.

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[Yunfan Jiang]

i googled and 1 psi = 6894 pa

so 3700 psi = 3700 * 6894 = 25 507 800 Pa = 25.5 MPa

to Simon:

if you dont do liquefying process, how can you got pure nitrogen ? although there is almost 80% of air is nitrogen gas, you still can promise its safe when you use air instead of pure nitrogen gas in haber process

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[Sebastian Cocioba]

http://www.nigelhewitt.co.uk/diving/maths/tank.html

"So for a 230 bar 12L tank we have 230*12*450 Joules. 1,242,000 joules!"

I'd hate to say it but PLEASE DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME.

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[Jonathan Street]

Hi Yunfan

Although an interesting project I don't see small scale production of ammonia playing a large role in alleviating malnutrition.

The link you give for generating liquid nitrogen requires a source of pure nitrogen, it does not produce by itself pure nitrogen. Liquefaction and distillation can be used to purify nitrogen but at small scale pressure swing adsorption is more commonly used - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressure_swing_adsorption

The pressures you are talking about are dangerous. It does not matter that compressors are available that can achieve such high pressures. Careful thought must be given to the choice of materials, wall thickness, couplings etc. Add in the high temperatures and the exothermic reaction and you risk a quite spectacular explosion.

There are better ways to increase food production. Many of them will be far safer and better leverage the experience of those on this mailing list.

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[Yunfan Jiang]

yes, i agree with you that its dangerous for people doing that at home, but isnt using electric is dangerouse too? think if you touch the naked line(110v or 220v) for about 30 seconds, you then died

anyway, its still dangerous, you can stay away from it in your own opinion.

and its just an not good example for talking about the energy's role

i will take another example. if you have free energy, you could get water from air for your farm (cooling the air by a heat pump, low pressure needs here) that made those farmer in desert live much better

and got products much more.  and if you use a machine which make rock to dust like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-Z6TVKiTdw) , you could even got a stable soil supplyment in your desert or gobi

such soil might cant grow many of the corps , but its better than nothing, isnt it? even grass could be use for improve the soil or feeding animals or insects (why not? the FAO has publish a PDF about edible insects last year, they want to use insects instead of animals )

the above example can be true only when energy became almost free, so its not possile today, for small farm , maybe you could fist try some solar stirling generators which is cheap and useful, for long term review , i am very interesting of this http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/products/compact-fusion.html

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[Matt Harbowy]

Yunfan:

Although this is a diy list, just because you can think something up with no training or experience, doesn't make it so. And you seem to be suffering from a language barrier.

The word "nitrogen" can refer to the atom, the molecule (n2) as a liquid or gas, ammonia (nh3) or nitrate salts (nh4no3) depending on context. Nitrogen, the liquid or the gas, is more or less inert and can be converted in the Haber process to ammonia, but only at very high temperatures. So to talk about the liquid, which at what, 77k, and the Haber process, at over 600K, in the same breath makes no sense. These things don't coexist. 

Then, there's the oxygen problem. Oxygen boils at about 90k, so oxygen will dissolve in liquid nitrogen, and liquid oxygen is very dangerous. It is a potent oxidizer: so much so that it is used in rocketry as an oxidizer. It is more powerful as a liquid because it is highly concentrated. 

In the Haber process, one uses steam and the oxygen in air with natural gas to produce hydrogen and carbon dioxide. This hydrogen is reacted with the deoxygenated nitrogen left behind from burning natural gas to form ammonia: if you left oxygen in, you would have an explosive result as oxygen reacted with hydrogen to form water.

I'm not sure where you get your ideas about free energy, but the sorts of pressures and temperatures both Haber and liquefaction involve require dense forms of energy. Straight up, Haber typically needs nat gas. And while you can produce hydrogen through electrolysis from solar energy, the process is a toy, not a real process that can be used efficiently. 

The first step in science, both DIY and traditional, is to hit the books. Learn things. Don't rely on Internet chat, or Wikipedia. Don't assume anything you can't demonstrate experimentally, and do some real experiments, not thrash around with pie in the sky ideas about free energy and high pressure, rocket science level dreams. And the people here are trolling you: hold back, and don't respond until you've carefully thought about what you are saying. 

There's a reason why hand crank fertilizer creating machines don't exist: they're called farm animals. 

Good luck trying to rediscover shit.

Matt Harbowy -hberg...@gmail.com

650 243 8467 - @hbergeronx on Twitter

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[Yunfan Jiang]

You're right, its dangerous, and i have admit that's not a proper example. also i am not trained or experienced scient both in scientist itself and the scientist grammer

the temperature is not the high , only 400 degree in Celsius. but what you talked about the oxygen problem, i admit that i havnt considered.

also you said "not a real process that can be used efficiently", but i have said, i am not need factory's high producting rate. you need to know in many country, farmer have little land that 

they make it as a business but a food supplyment. 

anyway i still made a big mistake by taking this as the example. so please stop talking about haber process, and i am totally wrong on this, ok? my point is just the energy's play a important role on food producting to response the topic "free food"

also the free energy concept is not someone announced in youtube that you can use magnet or other weird stuffs to get a free energe, what i talk about is some energy souce that is too cheap that almost could seem as free, for eg, if lockheedmarting could success on their compact fussion, the energy's price might go down to free(almost)

i came here because of the bio cyperpunk announcement, i am interesting of many interesting things inlucde diybio. so i came here. my background is a self-taught programmer worked for 6 years.

and i disgree with your first step in science, in my opinion, its motivation, you might want to get honor or publishing theises while others just want to satisfy his curiosity.

i promise to try my best to improve my grammer, and if you still cant satisfy, just ignore me or kick me from the list if there're some rules about this

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[Matthew Bertram]

Enter... the low pressure, low temperature  bio solution. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azotobacter_vinelandii. There are several organisms which will fix gaseous nitrogen, creating ammonia.

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[Yunfan Jiang]

its looks cool, but since it from company, i want to ask can people grow these by them self? since those poor people might not have money to buy this every year

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[John Griessen]

On 01/14/2015 02:12 AM, Yunfan Jiang wrote:
> and i disgree with your first step in science, in my opinion, its motivation, you might want to get honor or publishing theises
> while others just want to satisfy his curiosity.
>

The curiosity motivation is welcome here and you don't need to stay away. Study will help you get results -- most of us
here are partly self taught, but with a good dose of college training. Spell checking programs will catch a few of your
language mistakes, and the rest we can work around and you will learn English grammar.

I am very much interested in farm robots. Farming and food prep are places where bots could be helpful first.

On 01/14/2015 03:15 AM, Yunfan Jiang wrote:> its looks cool, but since it from company, i want to ask can people grow these by
them self?

Maybe figuring out a way to get microbe action to do your bidding for free, and work around any existing patents is the motivator
for you hitting the books in biology?

[Yunfan Jiang]

ok, i would take your suggestion and do some learning, can you recommend some books about specific subtopics? i dont know how could animal form knowledges help when i only want to know about plants and microbe

BTW, i subscribed Farmbot's twitter. but to me, vertical farm and indoor farm are more interesting

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[Markos]

Hi,

Some comments about.

I suggest to know the work of Dr. Peter Morgan who received the Stockholm Water Prize in 2913 (http://www.siwi.org/prizes/stockholmwaterprize/laureates/2013-2/).

The work of Dr. Morgan show the great potential of urine as a source of nitrogen in crops:
http://www.sswm.info/sites/default/files/reference_attachments/MORGAN%202009%20Garden%20Trials%20Using%20Urine%20as%20a%20Plant%20Food.pdf

http://www.aquamor.info/uploads/2/9/5/9/2959284/maize_growing_with_help_of_toilet_compost_and_urine_on_poo.pdf

http://www.aquamor.info/uploads/2/9/5/9/2959284/experiments_in_using_urine_to_enhance_the_growth_of_trees.pdf

http://www.aquamor.info/uploads/2/9/5/9/2959284/experiments_in_buckets_to_show_the_effect_of_urine_on_maize.pdf

I thought of the idea of setting up a simplified sequential bioreactor keeping urine aeration (aquarium air pump) to stimulate the growth of nitrifying aerobic bacteria and optimize the conversion of urea into nitrate for use in home gardens.

Urine is also a source of phosphate and other nutrients.

And the final step of bioreactor is maintained under starvation, and only with continuous aeration , to reduce the biomass, before being applied to the soil (with dilution).

The use of urine also helps to reduce domestic consumption of water used in the discharge.

What do you think about?

Markos

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[Simon Quellen Field]

It's easy to remove the oxygen, water vapor, and carbon dioxide.

Much easier (less energy needed) than liquefaction.

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[Nathan McCorkle]

On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 1:15 AM, Yunfan Jiang <jyf...@gmail.com> wrote:
> its looks cool, but since it from company, i want to ask can people grow
> these by them self? since those poor people might not have money to buy this
> every year

Lot's of farmers use pirated GMOs (cotton in Pakistan), but the GMOs
have already passed world-leader GMO-safety-regulation (even though
this 'testing' is arguably lacking and insufficient and/or misplaced).
A point to consider though, is that pirated-GMO cotton isn't being
eaten, and there is so much anti-food-GMO propaganda that it has
already scared the world away from things like 'Golden rice'. Haitians
burned Monsanto grain in protest, but this was terminator-gene GMO and
also potentially soaked with herbicide and insecticide so even I would
have been hesitant to eat the grain even if I wasn't planting it.

[Nathan McCorkle]

On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 1:22 PM, Nathan McCorkle <nmz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> but the GMOs have already passed world-leader GMO-safety-regulation

My point was that release of DIY-GMOs is not acceptable without safety
testing, and if someone was trying to pirate IP, they would likely get
stuck at the safety-testing stage because of the existing IP. I'm sure
the big $$$ companies know all the safety testing regulators.

[Cathal Garvey]

Dude. Do some research. Monsanto never shipped Terminator after the
public backlash, and GM produce tends to have fewer insecticide residues
(Bt, because innate resistance), lower aflatoxin (Bt, because less
bites), and less-toxic herbicide residues (RR, because Glyphosate).

It's still up to you whether you eat it, but facts is facts.

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[Nathan McCorkle]

On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 2:11 PM, Cathal Garvey
<cathal...@cathalgarvey.me> wrote:
> Dude. Do some research. Monsanto never shipped Terminator after the public
> backlash

Then what were the Haitians protesting? From the one video on it I
saw, it sounded like they were fearful of having terminator-carrying
pollen introduced to their island, which would soon make their island
dependent on imported seeds.

, and GM produce tends to have fewer insecticide residues (Bt,
> because innate resistance), lower aflatoxin (Bt, because less bites), and
> less-toxic herbicide residues (RR, because Glyphosate).

I was talking about eating the grain they were burning, which was
given to them as seed not eating-grain... A lot of the seed sold
around here does not look edible, with various colorful coatings on
it.

>
> It's still up to you whether you eat it, but facts is facts.

Yes but I think I was talking about different facts.

--
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[Nathan McCorkle]

On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 2:11 PM, Cathal Garvey
<cathal...@cathalgarvey.me> wrote:

> Dude. Do some research. Monsanto never shipped Terminator after the public
> backlash

Dang, I was swindled by popular media. Actually I assumed the Haitians
I saw protesting were doing so because of fears terminator genes,
because they used some slogan about getting caught in a cycle of being
forced to buy seed each year.

'Monsanto | Myth: Monsanto Sells Terminator Seeds'
http://www.monsanto.com/newsviews/pages/terminator-seeds.aspx

I guess I don't understand why more countries aren't pirating, I guess
I don't know enough about international politics to know why Haiti
would care to mind American IP. Maybe the protesters didn't really
even know what they were protesting.

[Yunfan Jiang]

i dont know if you are playing a joke on me, but it has been thousand years of using urine in farming in china

also urine's producting is too slow even for a familly farm

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[Yunfan Jiang]

i am not talking about hacking some pirated GMOs, just want to know if the company allow people to grow that at home

you might how it could possible, but it might cost much higher when people doing that at home, so they dont care it

i dont anti GMO food, but i do anti terminator-gene, in the famous science fiction "The Clockwork Girl", those campany release

virus for their own profits. same plot happened in china's it industry, some anti-virus campany release computer virus and then

present that virus-killer tool for profit. so i think a backup way is always needed

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[Cathal Garvey]

The use of Terminator is a very widespread myth that's popularly held
and believed despite all evidence to the contrary. That nutter Vandana
Shiva tells people that GE are "seeds of death" and won't germinate, a
spurious lie that is trivially disproven by just planting one, and yet
nobody in the crowds at her well-paid speaking engagements question it.

There's a financial incentive to lie, because you become famous as an
anti-whatever firebrand, and there's a social incentive to accept
bullshit because you become part of a clique. So myths about vaccines,
GE, antibiotics, etcetera proliferate like thought-viruses.

[John Griessen]

On 01/14/2015 07:51 PM, Yunfan Jiang wrote:
> i dont know if you are playing a joke on me, but it has been thousand years of using urine in farming in china
> also urine's producting is too slow even for a familly farm
>

He's not joking. He's talking about systems that use electricity to aerate and
a closed non-smell-releasing bioreactor that is nothing like ancient methods. And it
does not need to supply all the fertilizer needs for a family farm to have
a benefit, just partial. Also some animal urine might be collectible feasibly.

The mechanics of all this kind of waste handling by bots is far from developed to the
level of dependability needed to get results yet, but we can still talk about possible pitfalls.

Most people on this list are not going to be really thinking deep in the area of waste -- it's
got no glamour or flash appeal at all...

Can you imagine tweeting about your test results
of a fertilizer bioreactor getting up to ten thousand scrape, shake, bake, UV light cycles
before needing disassembly for repairs? Or publishing the photos to become part of your
product blog showing worn plastic parts with baked on crap and discoloration? You'd only have
ultra-nerd followers for that kind of thing...

[leaking pen]

Terminator is beside the point.  Hybrid is the point.  even before GMO, hybrid plants are good THAT YEAR.  many of them naturally are sterile, like mules, and many of them reproduce the second time to start expressing recessive genes,  (remember ye old D and R charts!).   So lots of hybrid varieties need to be rebought every year for the freshly hybrized anyways. 

The main fears with a lot of protesting farmers are issues with the SALESMEN. A lot of the GMO's that are immune to various parasites or molds that plague that particular plant also have changed needs because of it.  some need more or less light, a lot tend to need a LOT more water, and what was traditionally a drought tolerant crop has become one that needs more water than the farmer can supply.  And the salesmen don't TELL the farmers this, that was often an issue, they would sell this seed that is immune to x y and z pests, and not tell them, OH! you need to give them 5 times the water, or they will all die.  Then the sprouts wilt and die, and the farmer is out a LOT of money. 

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[Cathal Garvey]

Well, the results suggest the crops are generally a boon, particularly
to economically marginalised farmers (plenty of data on India for eg),
but I'll grant you that the marketers aren't exactly poster-children and
I'm certainly not a fan of theirs.

As far as Hybrids, it doesn't suit my aesthetics either to have a
variety that doesn't breed true, but aesthetics be damned: it's a
rule-of-thumb in genetics that where variation exists in a meaningful
way, bad things are *usually* recessive, beneficial traits are
*sometimes* dominant.

That's simple Darwinism|Mendelianism; if bad things are dominant, there
is more opportunity for the environment to act selectively on them, so
they are weeded out faster and leave a pool of less damaging alleles,
whereas if they are recessive, they can hide from selection for a
generation or two and may contribute benefit in terms of unexpected
side-effects, etcetera. So, bad traits that are dominant usually work on
an organism after it has had a chance to breed successfully, which is OK
in most agricultural contexts.

Meanwhile, if things are beneficial, they tend to drift towards fixing
in the population absent other pressures, until they hit equilibrium. If
they are recessive, they'll reach some equilibrium with other alleles,
if they are dominant they are more likely to simply become the norm,
which means "variation doesn't exist in a meaningful way" and the
rule-of-thumb ceases to apply. However, if only marginally beneficial on
their own, beneficial dominant traits can take a long time getting to
this point.

Given that bad things are usually recessive and beneficial things are
not always recessive, and given that breeding creates an artificial
circumstance of near-total allelic fixation (for a defined subset of
genes), it stands to reason why Hybrids are so popular: when you cross
two pure-bred lines, the bad traits that limit those lines are usually
recessive, and many of the good traits are either co-dominant or fully
dominant.

In other words, the F1 generation is often awesome. It's not called
"carefully selected parental lineages vigour", it's called "hybrid
vigour". The act of hybridising purebreds *often* or even *usually*
results in very successful offspring.

Now, there are two ways to look at this. One is to accept that hybrids
are awesome and live with the fact that you can then only use them for
one generation, because they're heterozygotes at most relevant loci. The
other way is to look at this as inspiration: if it is clear which genes
are valuable, then engineering a pure-bred line with those advantageous
traits becomes the goal.

Right now, we make one or two genetic changes, but with CRISPR and
next-gen plant engineering, we could hypothetically be making
"true-breeding hybrids". Hybrids aren't popular because manufacturers
like DRM'd plants, they're popular because they're awesome. So, make
them more awesome; make them breed true, and (some) farmers will use them.

On 15/01/15 17:31, leaking pen wrote:
> Terminator is beside the point. Hybrid is the point. even before GMO,
> hybrid plants are good THAT YEAR. many of them naturally are sterile,
> like mules, and many of them reproduce the second time to start
> expressing recessive genes, (remember ye old D and R charts!). So
> lots of hybrid varieties need to be rebought every year for the freshly
> hybrized anyways.
>
> The main fears with a lot of protesting farmers are issues with the
> SALESMEN. A lot of the GMO's that are immune to various parasites or
> molds that plague that particular plant also have changed needs because
> of it. some need more or less light, a lot tend to need a LOT more
> water, and what was traditionally a drought tolerant crop has become one
> that needs more water than the farmer can supply. And the salesmen
> don't TELL the farmers this, that was often an issue, they would sell
> this seed that is immune to x y and z pests, and not tell them, OH! you
> need to give them 5 times the water, or they will all die. Then the
> sprouts wilt and die, and the farmer is out a LOT of money.
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 5:19 PM, Nathan McCorkle <nmz...@gmail.com
> <mailto:nmz...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 2:11 PM, Cathal Garvey

> <cathal...@cathalgarvey.me <mailto:cathal...@cathalgarvey.me>>

> wrote:
> > Dude. Do some research. Monsanto never shipped Terminator after the public
> > backlash
>
> Dang, I was swindled by popular media. Actually I assumed the Haitians
> I saw protesting were doing so because of fears terminator genes,
> because they used some slogan about getting caught in a cycle of being
> forced to buy seed each year.
>
> 'Monsanto | Myth: Monsanto Sells Terminator Seeds'
> http://www.monsanto.com/newsviews/pages/terminator-seeds.aspx
>
> I guess I don't understand why more countries aren't pirating, I guess
> I don't know enough about international politics to know why Haiti
> would care to mind American IP. Maybe the protesters didn't really
> even know what they were protesting.
>
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[leaking pen]

Good and Bad being completely subjective in this instance as well. 

    <cathal...@cathalgarvey.me <mailto:cathalgarvey@cathalgarvey.me>>

    wrote:
    > Dude. Do some research. Monsanto never shipped Terminator after the public
    > backlash

    Dang, I was swindled by popular media. Actually I assumed the Haitians
    I saw protesting were doing so because of fears terminator genes,
    because they used some slogan about getting caught in a cycle of being
    forced to buy seed each year.

    'Monsanto | Myth: Monsanto Sells Terminator Seeds'
    http://www.monsanto.com/newsviews/pages/terminator-seeds.aspx

    I guess I don't understand why more countries aren't pirating, I guess
    I don't know enough about international politics to know why Haiti
    would care to mind American IP. Maybe the protesters didn't really
    even know what they were protesting.

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[Cathal Garvey]

There's no objective measure of anything, ever. That said, if we call
"selective pressure" an objective yardstick, then it's fair enough to
say that the rule-of-thumb holds objectively; most stuff that results in
a significant loss of "fitness" for an organism's environment or niche
without a balancing advantage is either recessive, or weeded out within
a few generations, so "most bad stuff is recessive".

Agriculture is an environment. We might be intelligent actors (citation
needed) but our selective pressures still weed out "bad stuff" for the
niche we force crops to occupy and select for "good stuff". It may be
"subjective" in the sense that it's a human applying selective pressure,
but from a natural selection POV it's as meaningfully selective as
anything else.

And so: the things we value in crops are either fixed by selective
pressure, or if they vary then they *may* be dominant or co-dominant,
whereas the things we *dislike* in crops are *usually recessive*.

..leading into hybrids, hybrid vigour, and the
unfortunate-to-some-advantageous-to-others-but-ultimately-a-side-effect
property of hybrids that they do not breed true.

[leaking pen]

I mean, the "bad dominants that get weeded out of a specific environment" could be the same dominants that allow it to thrive in another environment.  that and, what WE select for in a crop not always tying in with what nature would select. 

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[Cathal Garvey]

Environments are what shape and define strains and species. It's
irrelevant if those traits are useful in other environments, because the
only environment we care about is agriculture, in particular the type of
agriculture in the type of climate we are interested in.

We are nature, so "what nature would select" is meaningless. When we
select, shape and edit, so does nature.

> unfortunate-to-some-__advantageous-to-others-but-__ultimately-a-side-effect

> property of hybrids that they do not breed true.
>
> On 15/01/15 19:43, leaking pen wrote:
>
> Good and Bad being completely subjective in this instance as well.
>
> On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 12:41 PM, Cathal Garvey
> <cathal...@cathalgarvey.me

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[SC]

The original poster asked whether or not there are foods that can be grown easily by poor people to help them get food. Although GMOs may be helpful in this regard,  I think what normally holds people back from having a small farm of their own is lack of money, know-how, land, time, and water.   You may get more results looking at ways to solve water shortages than producing a GMO algae.   If they have enough water to grow algae, they would have enough water to grow something else.

 

[Nathan McCorkle]

On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 5:40 PM, 'SC' via DIYbio
<diy...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> If they have enough water to grow algae, they would have
> enough water to grow something else.

Unless they are growing in brackish water.

[Yunfan Jiang]

first get cheap water for them

second help them grow more with less water

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[Jonathan Cline]

Teach them to sprout beans and lentils.
Then teach them to grow mushrooms.  Read books by Paul Stamets.
Problem solved.
Too bad welfare systems of the modern world don't also take this approach, it is not only a third-world limitation.

Forget algae, it does not have enough calories per dry kg with dense enough growing volume.  Too much water and too much ground space required - which is why it has failed to scale, except in land regions next to large lakes or oceans [Aztecs anyone?].


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