OT
Johnb - co.uk
JohnnyB
Judy Madnick
Johnb - co.uk
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amal...@comcast.net
That was Mike Shefler.
Alan
From: dixo...@googlegroups.com <dixo...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Johnb - co.uk
Sent: Tuesday, January 5, 2021 12:00 PM
To: dixo...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Dixonary] OT
Judy, it was the one before that that voted for 5 and 7
JohnyB
On 05/01/2021 16:51, Judy Madnick wrote:
If it was Dan Widdis, yes, his name appears as the sender in my third-party email program.
Judy
Original Message
From: "Johnb - co.uk" <jo...@john-barrs.co.uk>
Date: 1/5/2021 11:46:42 AM
Subject: [Dixonary] OT
can anyone see who the last vote is from (without taking action to reply to it)
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JohnnyB
Virus-free. www.avg.com
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France International/Mike Shefler
--Mike
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Johnb - co.uk
I know it was Mike ... but what did your email show?
My problem is that anyone who sends from Dixonary group appears to me only as from Dixonary --- I have to begin a process of forwarding to see who it was sent by - just a PIA in the voting phase but also the source of unwanted crowns it the definition phase
I was just wondering what anyone else sees
--------------------------
[If I go to the group then his email appears (with the single quote marks) as
'France International/Mike Shefler' via Dixonary
so the group knows it is different to other people whom just
appear as names, I just wish it would show that on the email and
not merely and only the sender as Dixonary
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Judy Madnick
If it was Dan Widdis, yes, his name appears as the sender in my third-party email program.Judy
Original MessageFrom: "Johnb - co.uk" <jo...@john-barrs.co.uk>Date: 1/5/2021 11:46:42 AMSubject: [Dixonary] OTcan anyone see who the last vote is from (without taking action to reply to it)
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JohnnyB
amal...@comcast.net
Johnny – here’s a screenshot of Mike’s message and my inbox.
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Johnb - co.uk
Johnny – here’s a screenshot of Mike’s message and my inbox.
Alan
Paul Keating
amal...@comcast.net
With no conviction that either is remotely plausible, I’ll go with 5 and 8.
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Tim B
> have to begin a process of forwarding to see who it was sent by - just a PIA in the voting phase
> but also the source of unwanted crowns it the definition phase
>
> I was just wondering what anyone else sees
'France International/Mike Shefler' via Dixonary <dixo...@googlegroups.com>
but if I ask to see the full message headers, there are further clues there:
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@salsgiver.com
header.s=default header.b=btKJOwqR; spf=pass (google.com: domain of sta...@salsgiver.com designates
206.67.234.106 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=sta...@salsgiver.com; dmarc=pass (p=REJECT sp=NONE
dis=NONE) header.from=salsgiver.com
and there are a couple of Received lines that also mention the real sender address.
Best wishes,
Tim.
Johnb - co.uk
Ah, it must be a setting in Thunderbird mine only shows 'from Dixionary"
the interesting thing in my mind is that for decades a single quotation mark has been the initiation of a REM or comment and therefore the remainder is to be ignored... In that sense TB is correct it is ignoring what is after the '
OK, so the next question is why is it that Mike and Efrem are recorded in the group with a comment (and apparently no-one else is)--- I'll ask Dan
Paul Keating
Daniel B Widdis
- OK, so the next question is why is it that Mike and Efrem are recorded in the group with a comment (and apparently no-one else is)--- I'll ask Dan
Short answer: Mike and Efrem send from email domains which are not authenticated by their SMTP servers, Google doesn’t think they’re trustworthy, and alters the From: header to protect us, and there’s nothing we can do to change that behavior.
Longer answer: In reaction to the flood of email spam (55% of all email is spam, down from a peak of 69% in 2012), a system called DKIM (Domain Keys Identified Mail) was developed to add an authentication message to a header verifying that the user sending the email was an authorized user of that registered domain. By comparing the header with information in the domain’s DNS record, we know that, for example, an email sent from dixonary.net came from someone logged in and authenticated at dixonary.net, and is unchanged since it was sent. More than you probably want to know about it is explained at this site: https://postmarkapp.com/guides/dkim
Many spam detection algorithms use this header (or the lack of it) as part of determining a spam score for an email. Without the header, we don’t know if:
- Some devious person named Dan is writing an email to the group pretending to be Mike, voting for his own definition!
- Some really super devious person (also named Dan) controls a routing switch on the internet, and is intercepting Mike’s original email somewhere in the middle of the internet and changing his votes before they arrive at the group!
A few years ago, Google decided not to display the return email address of emails sent to the group which failed DKIM authentication. The net effect of this is that by the time the email is delivered to all the players, the group’s email address has been substituted for their own. Basically, the “From:” header has been changed.
Original header:
From: "Mike Shefler" <sta...@salsgiver.com>
Google-altered header:
From: "'Mike Shefler' via Dixonary" <dixo...@googlegroups.com>
- Note addition of single quotes around Mike’s name and addition of “via Dixonary” leading to the behavior you describe below
- Note the email address is changed, hampering the ability to reply
Most email clients understand this new format and still display Mike’s name, even though the email address has been removed so replying is difficult. Sometimes, however, an email client may associate the email address (the group) with an address book entry that already exists (the group) and just show you whatever name you’ve assigned that entry in your address book, regardless of the name actually entered.
Bottom line: There’s nothing we, the recipients can do, other than shake an angry fist at Google. The solution to avoid Google altering the From: header is for Mike and Efrem to use an SMTP server that authenticates them at their email domains.
- One option is to send to the group from a separate email address that authenticates them, like gmail.com or dixonary.net.
- Efrem has posted most of his recent messages from a gmail.com address, but the round 3124 results message came from his Verizon.net email address. But he sent It via a yahoo.com SMTP server, resulting in the above behavior. I believe he could probably fix this behavior by changing his client’s SMTP setting from “smtp.yahoo.com” to “smtp.verizon.net”.
- Mike uses some other custom mailserver setup for his salsgiver.com address, and I have no idea how to unravel that. Google still doesn’t like it.
And given the formatting of the altered emails, you can probably conclude if you can’t see the sender that it’s either Mike or Efrem. Efrem usually signs his name to his emails. So if you really don’t know, guess Mike. If you’re wrong, then Mike will fix it up as scorekeeper.
Dan
From: Dixonary <dixo...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of "Johnb - co.uk" <jo...@john-barrs.co.uk>
Reply-To: Dixonary <dixo...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2021 at 3:14 AM
To: Tim B <dixo...@siam.co.uk>, Dixonary <dixo...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Dixonary] OT
Tim
Johnb - co.uk
Thank you very much - I understand<sigh>
the information is there in the header so I am working on the switches in my email client automatically to show it all -- then I will have to find out what happens to 'reply' and 'reply list'
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France International/Mike Shefler
--Mike (or is it Dan?)
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Tim B
legitimately come from a different mail server. I had to do this some time ago to avoid a particular
mail server refusing my emails.
Best wishes,
Tim Bourne.