Analog signals received in digital mode (MAC version)

[Rick, WA6III]

I just noticed a strange behavior that I haven't seen before.

During receive with the software in the "Digital" mode in the MAC version, I can still hear (through the computer speakers/audio device)  the analog signals that you would correctly hear in the analog mode (or if you had the actual radio audio gain still up) .

This is with the "squelch" box unchecked of course.  "normally" when you disable the squelch, you only hear the intermittent  audio ("bloops" etc)  that the processor produces but I've never heard analog audio along with it.

I have heard people transmit analog SSB along with digital audio though when their mic didn't disconnect or they used the regular SSB mode in their transmitters with the mic still connected etc.

And just now, I switched to the WIN10 version and in the digital mode, I only hear the intermittent digital output ("bloops", "cracks", "pops", etc" )

If there's a DV signal present along with background SSB, and digital mode is selected, I can copy both.

Anyone else seeing something similar to this?

[Mooneer Salem]

Hi Rick,

With the squelch button unchecked, that's actually normal behavior. As long as there's no DV signal, you'll hear analog, but as soon as it can decode something it'll switch over to that. It's recommended to enable squelch and set it to something like -2 to ensure there's no audio coming through unless there's a valid signal.

Thanks,

-Mooneer K6AQ

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[Rick, WA6III]

Mooneer,

Thanks for the quick reply,

The strange thing was, running the MAC version,  I was hearing BOTH  when digital mode was active if a good digital signal was being received.  I.E. The decoded digital audio, AND the undecoded digital signal + SSB analog if one was present)

In the Windows version, I only hear digital "noise" (or decoded signal) in the digital mode.......

If I select analog (then I hear the analog SSB signal if present and the digital "noise" )

But when selecting Digital ......Shouldn't I only hear digital audio if a signal is present?  I have never  heard analog signals in the "Digital" mode with either the Win10 or Linux version

[Mooneer Salem]

Hi Rick,

How do you have your sound devices configured? Additionally, while this should be the default, it might be worth double checking your Tools->Options->Modem tab to make sure it looks more like the following screenshot:

Thanks,

-Mooneer K6AQ

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/digitalvoice/8bc3066f-f346-4785-a46b-c763636ff71an%40googlegroups.com.

[Rick, WA6III]

Here's the 2 windows TX & RX

In the options page,  I had "Use single thread...." checked too (default?) But I unchecked it with no change.

It just seems strange to hear both digital and analog signals when in the digital mode

Below, these were the only choices (unlike Win10 or Linux)   And the sample rate defaulted to 48000

[Mooneer Salem]

Hi Rick,

I forget, but what radio are you using? And are you running any other ham radio applications that are potentially using that device? 

Thanks,

-Mooneer K6AQ

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/digitalvoice/0ade1a60-b348-4770-8843-70457f034a34n%40googlegroups.com.

[Rick, WA6III]

It's an ICOM IC705

It works really good and so far has been quite easy to set up!

[Rick, WA6III]

Oh,

and about other "stuff" connected, no.  In fact, I had a problem with the operating system a few days ago so I did a complete "wipe" and clean re-install of Monterey.

FreeDV is so far the only additional software on it other than Firefox.

Before the problem It was working quite well so I am at somewhat of a loss understanding what changed. 

I also noticed tonight testing on 6m with another station in Oregon, when I began transmitting, I could hear the digital "noise" in the computer speakers.  It did not do that before.

Something is strange with my audio selections but as you can see in the screen shots, I do not have any other choices.  I am also not using any other connected audio devices.

[Mooneer Salem]

Hi Rick,

This might sound silly but have you made sure that your 705's volume dial is set to 0? I ask because I haven't noticed any issues on macOS (that's my primary platform for non #dayjob stuff), albeit with a Flex 6300 through a VB-Cable instance. I can do some testing tomorrow with my own 705 if needed.

BTW if possible, try using wfview over Wi-Fi instead of a direct USB connection and see how that goes, too. You may need VB-Cable or equivalent installed to route the audio, though.

Thanks,

-Mooneer K6AQ

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/digitalvoice/3c29920e-13d6-46dd-8773-558312c0de59n%40googlegroups.com.

[Rick, WA6III]

Mooneer,

Yup. but not silly at all!!

  First thing I do is turn the audio on the 705 all the way down once everything is up and running.

I also have the HP (WIN10) laptop running 1.9.1 too and it just works..... as does the Opensuse Linux box.... (although I do not have 1.9.1 running on Linux yet)

Another thing that just started happening with the mac is that when switching to transmit, within about 30-60 sec of beginning transmit, I get a "HAMLIB PTT" error, the software freezes and the 705 locks in transmit.  Even if I remove the USB cable, I still have to power-cycle the 705 to get it to switch back to receive. 

To me, that sounds like RF getting into the USB cable...... but it doesn't do it with the windows or Linux computer (and did not do it before with the Macbook)

I am wondering now if there's something screwy with the recent MacOS install and I might need to wipe/re-install it.

I am going to try a snap-on ferrite on the USB cable and see if that mitigates it.  

And it also sounds like all the audio sources are somehow "tied" together in the Macbook because I am even hearing  audio in the Mac speakers  that should be muted during transmit.  It did not do that before I re-installed the MacOS

[Mooneer Salem]

Hi Rick,

Yeah, the ferrite sounds like a good idea to try. Using the radio over Wi-Fi instead of USB may also be a good option to avoid RFI getting into the laptop (and reduces the number of wires involved :) Let us know how it goes!

Thanks,

-Mooneer K6AQ

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/digitalvoice/12e148c3-7920-4286-bd9e-08a6d2e9f573n%40googlegroups.com.

[Michael Lizzio]

Good Morning,

I  would also suggest using a good quality Ferrite on the Power Supply and Coax lines too. See attachment for additional information.

Good luck,

Mike WA2TOP

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/digitalvoice/CAAzDfxPPnMDKWYPTARVOrOnc%3DEZdj%3DO9xt71DZOVWSsbMSaz%2BQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Rick, WA6III]

Just an update on using the MAC version of FreeDV 1.9.1

I did a complete reinstall of MacOS Monterey (along with a new SSD) in my early 2015 MacBook Pro and reinstalled FreeDV.

I also have FreeDV installed on my older HP Win10 laptop so I can run them interchangeably.

No problems running the HP, everything works as before.

With the Macbook pro however, when in the digital mode, analog signals are heard simultaneously.  I cannot seem to find a way to turn them off .

With the Win10 laptop, when selecting Digital mode, all analog signals are muted or blocked, regardless of squelch position

In the Mac version, if digital is selected during an actual digital reception  The squelch will mute the received audio when the DV signal ceases.  When the DV signal starts the squelch allows decoded audio to play but I hear hear BOTH the digital audio and the (raw) analog at slightly less volume.  If someone is talking on SSB, I hear that too along with the decoded audio.

There is something in my audio setup with the MAC that is allowing cross-talk between audio channels.     

During analog reception the audio is quite distorted too.  I'm sort of at a loss with the MAC.

[Mooneer Salem]

Hi Rick,

Tonight I brought out my IC-705 to see if I could duplicate this on my 2019 MacBook Pro running Ventura. (Granted, this is newer than what you're trying to use, but if there is in fact a FreeDV bug it shouldn't matter what version of macOS is running.) I compiled the latest source code for the upcoming 1.9.2 release and executed FreeDV with the -f command line argument in Terminal to guarantee a fresh configuration, i.e.

$ src/FreeDV.app/Contents/MacOS/FreeDV -f ~/Downloads/freedv.conf

I then used Easy Setup to set up FreeDV as per the first attached screenshot. When I pushed Start, I heard no audio through the speakers built into my laptop unless I unchecked the checkbox under the Squelch slider. Once I did that, I heard the noise currently on 20 meters (which occasionally gets pretty high depending on what my neighbors are doing). Unfortunately as it's fairly late in the evening here, I can't currently test with live DV signals to ensure I'm not hearing the analog along with the decoded speech.

Note that the Squelch checkbox should have the following behavior regardless of operating system:

* Squelch checkbox checked -> no audio *unless* it's able to decode something (even if it's just an intermittent "bloop" type sound triggered by band noise), then the decoded DV signal is played (with no other audio).

* Squelch checkbox unchecked -> analog audio is played unless it's able to decode something, then the decoded DV signal is played.

which makes me think there might be something up on the Windows side if unchecking the squelch produces no audio for you. (FWIW, I get the expected behavior in my Windows 10 VM with the IC-705 USB devices attached to it. Other Windows users who happen to read this, let me know if the squelch behavior you're seeing differs from the expected behavior above.)

Anyway, I've also attached screenshots from Apple's Audio MIDI Setup application as well as various other FreeDV configuration windows in case that may be of help. Something that may also be of help is if you can record what you're hearing using the Record button on the left hand side and send the resulting .wav files over; while that will record the audio directly from the radio before it goes through any processing, if there is a FreeDV bug I should be able to duplicate it on my end by playing those files back through.

Thanks,

-Mooneer K6AQ

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/digitalvoice/991c652a-1d75-4af3-9c4f-74dc48afb22cn%40googlegroups.com.

[Mooneer Salem]

Additional update: I had my IC-705 on all day today and while 20 meters wasn't great, I did hear a FreeDV transmission or two. Unfortunately, with squelch on, I only heard the decoded digital voice on my MacBook. Maybe within a few days I'll try to catch a transmission while squelch is off and confirm that the behavior is also the same.

-Mooneer K6AQ

[Rick, WA6III]

Thanks for the screenshots Mooneer,

I'll do some more testing.    

I did notice with windows, I did not hear analog signals (squelch-OFF)  in the digital mode like I did with the Macbook running Monterey. 

It's  like the Macbook is playing BOTH the raw (USB Codec) audio coming from the radio AND  decoded audio (if the signal is digital) simultaneously.

[Rick, WA6III]

Just tried it again after all the changes to my Macbook Pro (Monterey)   and everything seems to be working ok.   

I still hear analog audio (albeit faintly) when digital is selected and the squelch is "open",  but it still seems to work.

Running the Win10 version, there is no analog audio heard during digital receive with the squelch open/off etc....... (zero, zip, nada!)

There must be some sort of audio "feedthrough", "crosstalk"  or something else unique to this early 2015 Macbook.  

When I was running the Linux version on both my desktop (ASUS board, onboard Pulse Audio OpenSuSE Leap 15.4) and my other Macbook pro (mid 2012 running KDE NEON[Ubuntu 20.04 based] )   I heard no analog "feedthrough" audio during digital receive)

Not really sure what's going on but it doesn't seem to "hurt" the digital receive on the newer Macbook.

[Mooneer Salem]

Hi Rick,

Regarding your Windows machine, the waterfall looks like it's receiving stuff, right? (i.e. not a black screen) If there are various colors appearing there, I would expect audio with the squelch checkbox unchecked.

BTW I was finally able to test with squelch on and off and it didn't seem to make a difference once it locked onto a signal. Squelch off without a signal results in analog audio as expected.

Thanks,

-Mooneer K6AQ

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/digitalvoice/f237a164-002b-445e-8214-206f3f69b3e9n%40googlegroups.com.

[Rick, WA6III]

Mooneer

On my HP dv5 laptop running WIn10, there is no analog audio when receiving in the digital mode with the squelch-OFF other than pops and "bloops" presumably from the decoded noise etc....

If I select analog  (also squelch-OFF) , I do hear analog noise, ssb or other signals (if present )   If someone is transmitting DV I also hear what it sounds like on any other ssb receiver

With the Macbook, digital mode selected, squelch-OFF,  I hear analog signals (if present) + analog noise  + "bloops/pops" .  If there's a digital signal there also, I hear decoded audio. 

Evidently the MAC audio system allows the USB codec raw audio to be "fed through" to the speakers even if not selected speaker "source)"

I am not even sure if I am describing that correctly but I have my HP win10 laptop running right now with digital selected and there is NO analog audio coming through the speakers.  I'm only hearing the decoder trying to decode the noise

Of course, if I "close" the squelch, it completely silences the output. (as it should)

[Rick, WA6III]

Mooneer,

Just a quick update on what I have since discovered during operation.

Same as before, the Win10 laptop does not produce ANY (raw)  analog audio when digital is selected ("squelch" ON or OFF) .   (with squelch-OFF the processor attempts to decode the noise) and the squelch appears disabled in the analog mode

With the Macbook running Monterey, FreeDV appears to produce (low level)  raw analog audio in the digital mode with the squelch off but when a digital signal starts decoding, the analog appears to either "mute" or is "replaced " or supplanted by the digital audio.  The Squelch of course mutes everything in the digital mode.

The 1.8.x version I had running on OpenSuSE (Leap 15.4 x64) operated identical to the Windows version.

Maybe nothing is wrong! 

[Mooneer Salem]

Hi Rick,

I dunno, I'd still expect there to be *some* audio with squelch off regardless of the platform. Though speaking of OpenSuSE, were you using FreeDV with PulseAudio/pipewire or PortAudio?

Thanks,

-Mooneer K6AQ

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/digitalvoice/c23e25fd-9df5-4b23-9ad8-c3839c83b870n%40googlegroups.com.

[Rick, WA6III]

Mooneer,

With SuSE I was using Pulse audio and it worked just fine.

I was also using a video card that connects to the monitor using HDMI and connecting the speakers to the monitor audio output.....but I never could get any of the HDMI audio to work so I went back to using the onboard audio "card"

With either KDE NEON (Ubuntu 20.04 LTS) or OpenSuSE on the Mid 2012 Macbook Pro, I was only able to get FreeDV to work receive only.  I could never get the MIC audio from the laptop to the software.

I'll have to try it again and send you some screen shots of the TX audio selections.  There were numerous selections, but none worked.  I could not find any newer versions of FreeDV for Ubuntu so I dropped NEON and went back to SuSE because a packager had set up the  1.8.9 RPM

He hasn't built any newer packages yet.  I did try to send him an email thanking him but I have never gotten a response.

I have never built RPM's myself, and although I have used OpenSuSE for many years I have not gotten into the OpenSuSE Build Service to try to do any of the actual package building.  I am still pretty much a LInux novice!!

https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/home:wkazubski/freedv

[Mooneer Salem]

Hi Rick,

If FreeDV is built using PulseAudio, it may be worth trying to set the audio settings via the "pavucontrol" tool (after doing an initial pass using FreeDV's configuration dialogs) as it provides more friendly names for the audio devices on your system. Changes there also propagate back to the FreeDV application so that they get restored next time you start it. Hope this helps!

Thanks,

-Mooneer K6AQ

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/digitalvoice/f942cc5f-3035-4848-aa83-b42aa98bdcb1n%40googlegroups.com.

[Rick, WA6III]

Mooneer,

Just installed your latest 1.9.2 dated 09/11/2023 on my Winblows 10 x64 HP laptop...... and it returns absolutely no analog audio in the digital mode (SQ-Off)   

Only the "normal"  occasional "pops, bangs,  bloops & burps" typical of the processor attempting to decode analog signals and noises etc.

[Mooneer Salem]

Hi Rick,

Anything change if you increase the radio sound device's volume on Windows with squelch off? (Click on the speaker icon in the taskbar and then choose "USB Audio CODEC" or similar, then you should be able to adjust the volume there.)

Thanks,

-Mooneer K6AQ

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/digitalvoice/7b198154-b82d-4afe-a565-cc9fbf03478cn%40googlegroups.com.

[Rick, WA6III]

Mooneer,

Just tested it on the Win10 HP laptop.

In the digital mode, varying either the USB Audio Codec slider in windows or the USB AF output Level in the IC705 had no effect on the digital  audio (SQ box unchecked) The only audio produced is the intermittent "bloops, barks and farts" of the of the decoder trying to decode the analog signals and noise present.

With analog selected, the IC705 USB AF Output Level (radio slider) will vary the output from the computer speaker  from zero to 100% audio.  In the radio, default is 50% (at 100% it seemed a little "hot")

But in the "Digital" mode, even at 100% USB audio the software did not produce anything other than the attempted noise decodes (SQ still unchecked) .

[Mooneer Salem]

BTW we were able to further debug this over Zoom this afternoon and created the following pull requests to resolve the problem:

https://github.com/drowe67/freedv-gui/pull/544

https://github.com/drowe67/codec2/pull/9

Thanks Rick for the assistance and help in finding this issue :)

-Mooneer K6AQ

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/digitalvoice/d6748b80-538e-4492-a8db-dfed72409e2an%40googlegroups.com.