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Mooner,
Thank you for responding my inquiry.
Here is my advice based on my entire carrier , as a communication engineer, we had better not to stick to "three letters" classification defined at ITU at around 1960s when neither "Internet digitalized multimedia" nor "solid state technology" concepts did not exist. In Japan, we share the side-effects of this classification among us practically for FreeDV example and successfully eliminated it from radio amateur service regulations.
In my previous memo, I questioned whether FreeDV is "J2D" and you responded it was "J2E" in a 2000 issue of QEX". Then, what is your response if I say that FreeDV should be either "J2E" and "J2D" as it has text message field included or simply "J2D" as voice is digitized? I understand the arguments are endless and it is fine to argue as long as we secure the regulators do not specify it.
So, my interest and confirmation is FCC will maintain the policy to eliminate “analogue SSB”and eventtually allow FreeDV in 30m band by saying "30m Emission types of authorized are “RTTY, data” in the “Entire Band” in this R&D. Am I correct?
Regards,
take
de JA5AEA
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I'm not surprised by this, because the primary purpose of FreeDV is
voice communication and the intelligence carried is speech, so the E
does make sense.
r>.
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73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL
http://vkradio.com
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Hi Rick,If the reporting data in FreeDV were truly considered a separate data channel, why wouldn't it be something like J7W instead? After all, the '7' means "two or more digital channels" and lines up with Icom's emissions designator for D-Star (one digital voice channel and one data channel).
The Emissions Designator 1K20J7W signifies a wireless radio which transfers data over a modulated wave using Two or more digital channels signal. This signal transmits at a 1.20 kHz [1K20] maximum bandwidth . bandwidth does not indicate frequency of the signal. Emissions Designators describe the type of signal only.
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Hokay. I have several SDRs. A subset of them can transmit signals. I can write SDR transmit software that takes in digital audio and directly generates a digitally modulated signal say on 14.222 MHz. Where is the SSB transmitter in this picture? Is the signal magically SSB anyway because .... why? This is magical thinking not technical thinking.
That said, there is, perhaps, a point to separate speakers and listeners from typists and readers. I'll listen to arguments that are free of magical thinking that this is a pertinent point rather than a triviality. The ARRL has some good heads that seem to be utterly incapable of communicating to others in a logical fashion.
I still not they are not regulating how often I can change my transmitting/receiving frequency. I figure 8000 times per second might be quite interesting. (Those were fun days in the early 70s.)
{^_^} Joanne/W6MKU
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The issue is that part of the band is DATA not DIGITAL. That is where the issue is. Many cannot get passed the form of the transmission when what is being sent is the purpose of the band plans.But yup.. we will just have to agree to disagree.73Glenn
Then look up the FCC definition of data. Out of curiosity, what is that definition. Perhaps we should all become familiar with terms we use which may have FCC definitions that are quite different from the street definitions. In computer vernacular, if you dig deep enough into it, "data" is sets of data bits that are to be processed giving output that is one or more sets of data bits. I bet the FCC says otherwise. If not we get to define it as we wish. "DATA" is clearly, to most people, inclusive of text, voice, video, sensor readings, and so forth. It's all sets of ones and zeros.
At least get on the same page as the FCC when picking nits with
them.
{^_^} Joanne/W6MKU
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In other words the FCC has gone jabberwocky. (Lewis Carroll.) Then they moved on to vanishing caterpillars with words meaning exactly what I intend them to mean. Some DATA is DATA and some DATA is something else. I hate lawyers and politicians. It takes their sort to come up with this kind of pure tripe. And in what way is DIGITAL distinguished from DATA? Well, technically DATA exists in analog and digital formats. So - WTELF DOES the FCC really mean when they throw out those redefinitions of well known words?
{+_+} Joanne/W6MKU Contemplating the FCC gives me a giant
headache. That's why I have slid, again, into inactivity. Scroom.
Scroom all.
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Hi, I found the following definition of DV in all IARU Band plans.
DV: Digital Voice: Any mode based on digital encoded voice, restricted to the specified bandwidth and application of the segment. The non-voice digital embedded content must be an ancillary data, not the main purpose of the communication, except during emergency communications. Digital Voice users should first check if the channel is already in use by other stations and modes (including analog).
I believe the above definition will help us to have common understanding who we are. However, if the demand of “Listen Before Talk” practice is imposed only on DV, I oppose. In this case, I believe we should have multiple Center of Activity (CoA) channels to satisfy our traffics. Please confirm your CoA frequencies in each regions. They are different with our “Calling Frequency” list in FreeDV Reporter. and we need reconsider our list.
It looks like we are classified in to phone segment by the following clause.
R1 & R3:
Phone: Phone operation includes, SSB, DSB AM, FM and Digital Voice modes with similar bandwidth not exceeding 6 kHz. On 50 MHz and above, the maximum bandwidth not exceed 25 kHz
R2:
Single Sideband (SSB), Amplitude Modulation (AM) and Frequency Modulation (FM): These modes are cited on the band plan for analog phone communications only (not for Digital Modes or Digital Voice).
Again, we anticipate we are segregated from other phone or data service in the above sentence and we should make lobby activity to correct them.
Any comments?
Regards,
take
de JA5AEA
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Everybody who remembers the SSB / AM wars raise your left hands. SSB was tried and found successful in the ham marketplace. I fear DV won't because it's not possible for the big radio manufacturers to include DV in their transceivers. They're not going to go GPL any time soon. (as in Hell freezing over?)
(Donning my full on protective gear) May I suggest a shift to
BSD, MIT, or Apache licenses?
{^_^}/ Joanne/W6MKU
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Done.
Many thanks G D for setting us up for the response on this one. 😊
For anyone that did not have the opportunity to catch the online TAPR conference last Saturday, you may have missed a quiet little announcement, that has some pretty BIG implications for FreeDV, to this very point.
Here’s a link to the recorded session on YouTube. (1088) tapr 2023 - YouTube
In particular, there were 2 presentations, for FreeDV.
I gave one on the normal operation and configuration of the client software, with a small glimpse of a NEW way to use FreeDV on a Flex 6000 series radio, as well as an Icom IC-705 radio. ezDV device.
This will also work with any other radio as well like the way the SM1000 does, just not as seamless as the previous 2 radios mentioned.
Then Monneer-K6AQ presented the ezDV device to do this with, that he designed, and will very soon be available for purchase through the TAPR online store. Much appreciation for TAPR to recognize the need for something like this to made available for all.
If your on FreeDV today, and access the FreeDV Reporter page, https://qso.freedv.org/ you will see a few of using this device right now with excellent results, and a great deal more functionality than the Waveform implementation of many years ago. As this does NOT require ANY software to be installed on the radio itself. It just makes a wifi connection to link to the radio.
Building on the really great work that Flex did as an early concept, this NEW method allows for multiple modes, Analog, 700D, 700E, 1600 for now, similar to the SM1000 modes, Voice Keyer for CQ messages, and the ability to flash new firmware over the network to stay very current with the many changes taking place in FreeDV every week or so.
And this shows up on the Flex radio as 2 NEW modes, much like USB and LSB, there is now FDVU and FDVL. After you have selected the mode you want to operate in like 700D via a simple web interface, you then just select the FDVU mode on the radio, dial up the frequency like 14.236 or anything else, and use any mic you want, such as the PC mic, or the local mic on the radio, and your on the air, quick and easy.
As an added bonus, if your accessing your Flex 6000 series radio remotely via an Ipad, Iphone, or PC, again, you just select the FDVU mode, and your ready to go. Nothing to install on the other devices to take advantage of these features.
If you have any question on this, feel free to let us know, or catch me on my ZOOM channel any time, if you want to see more of what it looks like.
Look me up on QRZ for the link, we are always on with many others.
Don’t forget, THIS is the FreeDV Activity weekend, so get on the air and join us..
All the best,
Walter/K5WH
From: digita...@googlegroups.com <digita...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of G D
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2023 6:32 AM
To: digita...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [digitalvoice] Re: ARLB031 ARRL Hails FCC Action to Remove Symbol Rate Restrictions
FreeDV was in the Flex Radio Option downloads but had not been available for a while as it is NOT fkex software, just a works with and a third party available software. I did have the original version buy nobody used it. That is an option for programmers to look into building again for those atleast
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On the 1500, you have to use the regular client software, and it works well for that.
Walter/K5WH
From: digita...@googlegroups.com <digita...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Gary Kohtala
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2023 1:28 PM
To: digitalvoice <digita...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [digitalvoice] Re: ARLB031 ARRL Hails FCC Action to Remove Symbol Rate Restrictions
Is anyone doing FREEDV on a Flex 1500? If so, how?
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Is the integrated Flex 6000 version available for download somewhere? I have not seen it anywhere, possibly just missed its location.
Glenn
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OK, I started some of this mentioning the AM/SSB wars. On contemplating it a little more I suspect one reason SSB caught on was the compatibility with most equipment hams owned. If a radio could receive CW it sound receive SSB to some degree. The conversations would draw somebody in. Operating between modulation platforms was quite feasible. FreeDV has both SSB and DV operating modes. Su let's go a step further and optionally include a (much?) reduced power SSB signal over the DV signal. (Heh, let the FCC sort out the modulation code for that station. {^_-}) At least where the signal is strong the SSB operator may be able to hear the SSB and decide "Am I hearing something I want to hear better?" If yes, break in politely and ask "How the heck do I join what you guys are doing?" Be inviting not confrontational. If the SSB power remains say 10 dB below the DV power DV demodulation should be good and SSB readable but crappy. That might speed up the transition - catching ARRL and FCC with their pants down again.
{^_^} Joanne/W6MKU
(Yeah, I remember the wars. My first SSB TX was a 50 MHz Heathkit
phasing beast nearly 60 years ago. Polite worked FAR better than
"Ralphie".))
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