My love is based on memory | Krishnamurti

[Rani Madhavapeddi]

Can we live without memory? Isn’t that true love as the essence of our Being?

https://youtube.com/shorts/BhaWryf_NDM?si=wmeoUu6gZ979Ztz4

Rani Madhavapeddi Patel

[andyw...@aol.com]

Rani - 

I do not believe we can negotiate this embodied experience

live without memory or cognition.

I also believe that Love is the essense of our Being,

not based on memory, thought, experience or knowledge.

Andy

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[Rob MacDonald]

It would be interesting to understand K's greater point from this small clip.  I was left wanting to understand more about what he was pointing toward.

To echo what Andy added, there's too much in experience that suggests that memory is a part of this experience for me.  Maybe if thought fell away, so too would the memories, since in essence they are thought-based, but too many examples of sensory experiences (smelling, tasting, touching/texture, etc.) triggering memories, and right now it seems like thought will always be a part of this living experience.... but ask me again in a year... 🙂

I'd ask, Rani, what exactly is true love?  "True Love"??  Would it be fair to say that when one points to 'True Love', aren't they really just pointing to that 'ground of being' where all things arise from?  Does that have a definition?  Can it really be 'Love' if it includes love, hate, sadness, joy, red, green, sun, moon, stars, cancer, newborn babies, pizza, brussel sprouts.... all of material experience and existence in whatever form it takes?

I guess I have wrestled for a long time with the phrase 'God is Love', and all I am ever left with is, "What do I mean by God?" and "What exactly is included (and excluded) from Love?"  

Ultimately I don't know, but the more and more this spiral of unfolding goes, lots of terms, including love, seem like they are good pointers, and I haven't grokked this yet for myself, but others who seem to have that heart awakening / opening experience will use the term love, but also are quick to say that love is largely insufficient to capture what they are point toward which does not exclude anything we experience as embodied humans.

Grist for the dialogue mill.... 🙂❤️

-Rob M. 

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[Scott Green]

Rob,

When we are in relationship with another, if we respond to what is happening from memory, it doesn’t seem like anything new is being created. If the moment is dealt with simply as it is, absent memory, it seems more that anything is possible. How it looks here.

Scott 

On May 28, 2025, at 8:07 PM, Rob MacDonald <rjma...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Rob MacDonald]

Scott,

Thanks for that, I keep re-reading the core of that and it is something to definitely continue to inquire into there for me.

I think this is why most of what can be offered from this perspective must always come with a disclaimer of 'ask me again later', because now is all that can be reflected here in this seemingly ever changing perspective.  

If I could ask, though, would you be willing to  elaborate on 'responding from memory'?  Is this like breaking free of conditioned patterns?  I'm reading it as memories are pathways to patterned or conditioned responses, where the risk is the same old respond, blocking out the possibility of something new. 

Best,
Rob M.    

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[Scott Green]

Rob,

 

I can’t disagree with the way you describe it. That said, when words like “memory” are used loosely, it seems to point to something that’s beyond the word. If you ask me to try and really explain what that word means in the context I am using it, I can’t do it. That’s just the word of the moment. But, it’s just a word.

 

Scott

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[Rani Madhavapeddi]

Scott, 

I actually thought of you when I was listening to it. I think that's what K is saying when it's from memory, all the drama associated with a person comes to the forefront and often relationships break because we do not move on and remember to be in the now. I also think this comes more naturally to some than others. Hemant never brings up the past. It is in the now. I used to go into the past but he then just ignores me. That has taught me a lot. 

We can be good teachers in any relationships if we stay open. My 2 cents. 

Rani

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[Rani Madhavapeddi]

Andy, 

I agree we are embodiments of love, and yet as Scott said so precisely in any relationship we miss the now and go into past memory its no longer fresh and the drama and unresolved conflicts can surface to the top and we just ruined now with memory. As I explained, Hemant has made me realize. It is said that women are more emotional than men (one can deny and I did too), then men, maybe understanding that by the male counterpart in relations will help to ease the conflicts that can arise. And if I as a woman can be more open to the now and not go back into the past, can relationships survive? Just my 2 cents. 

K does say that love is our very being and hence, anger, fear and conflict cannot arise in LOVE. 

rani

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[Rani Madhavapeddi]

On Wed, May 28, 2025 at 6:07 PM Rob MacDonald <rjma...@gmail.com> wrote:

It would be interesting to understand K's greater point from this small clip.  I was left wanting to understand more about what he was pointing toward.

K is saying that when we love a person, can we love in the NOW with no history of all the baggage we carry with us in any relationship. He does have an hour long tape on Love.  

To echo what Andy added, there's too much in experience that suggests that memory is a part of this experience for me.  Maybe if thought fell away, so too would the memories, since in essence they are thought-based, but too many examples of sensory experiences (smelling, tasting, touching/texture, etc.) triggering memories, and right now it seems like thought will always be a part of this living experience.... but ask me again in a year... 🙂

I also feel life memory is essential, for all human activities, skills and communication. But he is talking about LOVE where if we bring memories of the past  that are pleasant we set ourselves up to disappointment and the NOW which is ever fresh, is missed. When we see a rose in our yard we are often times looking but not perceiving it. When we are on vacation we see the same rose and it looks more beautiful, there is a freshness when we are looking at it in a different place, time or with a particular person. It feels fresh anew. It is the same rose.    

I'd ask, Rani, what exactly is true love?  "True Love"??  Would it be fair to say that when one points to 'True Love', aren't they really just pointing to that 'ground of being' where all things arise from?  Does that have a definition?  Can it really be 'Love' if it includes love, hate, sadness, joy, red, green, sun, moon, stars, cancer, newborn babies, pizza, brussel sprouts.... all of material experience and existence in whatever form it takes?

I have thought of this a lot. I always felt that I dont have Love in me as this is unconditional. WE talk about a dog giving us unconditional love to some extent it too is conditioned by our input of love. Is compassion , kindness, empathy, caring, and helping all not a part of LOVE? I guess it is. But I watched the last Pope and Dalai Lama and several saints, there is something in them that draws us to them is it LOVE? Often wondered. 

Can we have unconditional love? The great tragedies of Shakespeare are appealing as they talk about unconditional Love. The hero loses the love of his life and he is happy for her. There is  something noble and almost sublime surreality about this tragic love. But maybe it points to pure unsullied love? 

I guess I have wrestled for a long time with the phrase 'God is Love', and all I am ever left with is, "What do I mean by God?" and "What exactly is included (and excluded) from Love?"  Gods Love I dont know. Who is God I dont know never seen IT. However I have seen women and men who draw you like a magnet. they have some energies that promote positivity and goodness, and thoughlessness too....then in their presence you forget yourself. Are they walking Gods? I dont know.

 

Ultimately I don't know, but the more and more this spiral of unfolding goes, lots of terms, including love, seem like they are good pointers, and I haven't grokked this yet for myself, but others who seem to have that heart awakening / opening experience will use the term love, but also are quick to say that love is largely insufficient to capture what they are point toward which does not exclude anything we experience as embodied humans.

H

Grist for the dialogue mill.... 🙂❤️

Living with IDK is a kind of openess....? 

My 2 cents on all this- Rani

-Rob M. 

On Wed, May 28, 2025 at 7:04 PM 'andyw...@aol.com' via Diehard Group <diehar...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Rani - 

I do not believe we can negotiate this embodied experience

live without memory or cognition.

I also believe that Love is the essense of our Being,

not based on memory, thought, experience or knowledge.

Andy

On Wednesday, May 28, 2025 at 03:02:06 PM EDT, Rani Madhavapeddi <rmadha...@gmail.com> wrote:

Can we live without memory? Isn’t that true love as the essence of our Being?

https://youtube.com/shorts/BhaWryf_NDM?si=wmeoUu6gZ979Ztz4

Rani Madhavapeddi Patel

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[Dan Kilpatrick]

Rani, Rob M and All,

To Rob's question about love as expressed here, what comes up here right now is that love is simply affection for all that is, without any cause or reason. It needs none.

To Rani's point about the past and love. I remember once listening to someone who is very close to me when suddenly it was quite clear that I wasn't listening to her at all. I was hearing what I knew of her and all its associated images and reactions. Like I "knew" who she was. In the very same instant, this all fell away and there was only her, seeing myself in her. Meaning love for her, without any distance between us. It was incredibly humbling, meaning I had nothing to do with this love. It was a real blessing.

So we might say that the past moving in me suddenly was now, which shattered it in a single stroke of love which was not my own. Now wasn't some other way for things to happen so that I could better listen, it was what was actually happening becoming very obvious (not listening). At least this is how it appears to me. 

-Dan 

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[Rob MacDonald]

Taking in the last replies, I wonder if 'neutrality' is a better term to use?

Reflecting on Dan's share, I can resonate with such a moment.  In fact, it is one of the more troublesome and convicting experiences I have right now where each day I sit with someone who triggers a lot of the lifetime of conditioning, and where I want love to flow in these interactions, these unspeakable resistances and blocks inside my body, which have no instruction manual on how to release, all I can do is observe the resistance and be present with it, not resist it or beat myself up for having it, also observing the thoughts that want things to be different.

I can't force love in these moments.  So neutrality to see, feel, experience whatever arises seems to be the purest effortless arising that I don't feel like I am forcing.

I guess this is really why this particular thread is fascinating for me.

Peace,
Rob M. 

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[Dan Kilpatrick]

Thanks Rob for your sharing here. If I may bring in one impression, love comes over us not the other way round. I believe your seeing the same thing. But it may be present without our even knowing it. We really are not the center of anything in its presence and action. That sort of gets wiped away, it seems to me. There really seems no knowing it. 

-Dan

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[andyw...@aol.com]

Dan, Rob,

Rob -  I think of the word "opennes" when you use the word "neutrality", 

and agree that love, like compassion or humility, cannot be pursued,

achieved or "forced", but can occur with an openness to what is, not

dependent upon memory, thought, knowledge or experience.

Just my 2 cents worth...

Andy  

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[Dan Kilpatrick]

Andy,

Very interesting email to me! It came up recently that when there is openness, which, to me, is not "ours" but just here and not trying to be anything, love is present as well. It just isn't making anything out of itself. Again, an impression coming up. 

Thanks, -Dan

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[Rani Madhavapeddi]

I cannot agree with you more. We don’t make that happen. It happens.

Rani Madhavapeddi Patel

On May 29, 2025, at 2:18 PM, Dan Kilpatrick <kilp...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[andyw...@aol.com]

yes, Dan, Rani,

It just seems to me that love is our essence, and, like awareness, 

is always there, it's just that our conditioning "gets in the way" of it's revelation.

Andy

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.

[Dan Kilpatrick]

Rani and Andy, I'm with you both here. To add to what you shared Andy, what was coming up earlier here with my earlier example of looking through my conditioning, was that love was present even as it happened in me. It shattered it by making it obvious to me. So in this sense, nothing was really getting in the way of love. It was simply waiting in the wings the whole time. Who knows how all this moves? I guess this brings us back to openness, not knowing.....  -Dan

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[Dan Kilpatrick]

Sorry Andy,

I meant to add that really all this is revealing what you shared, and which I concur with. Love is our fundamental nature, of everything. I brought this up in another thread recently as well. When we speak of the fundamental nature of the universe etc, this seems to often get left out. But it's not a philosophical matter, right? It is either immediate or not. It makes all of our formulations and philosophies immaterial in its presence, it seems to me. And this is not to demean philosophy etc at all. Just trying to point to that which is beyond philosophies and yet is sweeping it all of them up into its arms....

So love, in this sense, is moving in everything right now, non-philosophically. It can make itself apparent in this way, beyond words, imho...... -Dan  

[andyw...@aol.com]

thanks Dan, I appreciate how your expansion brings clarity,

nothing more I could add here...

Andy

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.

[Dan Kilpatrick]

Likewise Andy, thanks

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[Rob MacDonald]

Dan / Rani / Andy, or anyone else,

In the spirit of dialogue.... have either of you been in a situation where you were incapable of loving someone or something?  If so, what would you say about why that is?  Is that a conditioning problem?  Is our conditioning more influential than our essence?  Does this evolve as we inquire more and become more available by seeing through our conditioning?

-Rob M.

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[Dan Kilpatrick]

Hi Rob,

I really appreciated your questions here, it feels very honest to me. Yes it seems possible to me for the presence of love or its action to be more likely as things fall away for us. But this also raises another question for me right now. Is this all really about moving towards a place of love, or maybe something else? I'm just looking at it right now.....

It occurs to me that love is either present for us at a given moment, or not (maybe acting through us is a better way to say it). And I wonder what happens when it is clear that there is no love in us. Might it be that love is showing us ourselves in this moment, something we could never see or realize on our own? It seems to me that in this there is no moving towards or away from love, love is just acting. We may be left with the fact that there is no love present, without the possibility of moving away from the fact. And maybe it all happens in an instant, who knows?

Maybe it is an act of love for us to be faced with ourselves as we are. As a realizing, not as a reaction or conclusion coming out of the known. In there being no possibility of moving away from ourselves. And in this maybe it is possible for love to make itself inevitably present and obvious to us in an intimate and unspoken way.

But I guess the point might be (for me) that there is no knowing how love moves, it is not containable or definable in this way. It is the larger picture in which we are all moving and impossible to take in completely. At least this is how it occurs to me.

Thanks Rob. -Dan

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[Rob MacDonald]

Thanks Dan,

I guess this is an on-going mystery for me....

The resistance to being able to love someone conjures the "Well I wish this was different...", but that is another thought / belief.  So that leads me back to the space of openness (thank you, Andy, definitely feels better than neutrality), because instead of resisting the unpleasant emotions that arise, there is an unconditional awareness of whatever shows up.  Maybe it is that "Essential Love" folks are pointing to above that enables this unconditional awareness of unpleasant emotions, instead of doing everything in our power to avoid, deflect, change....

I have been writing a lot lately about the topic of "Movements of the Heart", because of some of the latest trends in mainstream religion, and claiming faith while also doing some very inhumane things to other people.  This is parallel to our time of YouTube gurus and teachers... SO much content out there to consume, but when the power goes out, and all our devices die, one is left with silence and self reflection, and it seems like there is where Knowing can be grokked, and while other's experience can be helpful pointers, you need to ultimately confront your own baggage... there is no skirting it, only through it.  And then, I guess the other observation, at least from here, is that "I" can pray to be more loving, or ask for my resistances to be removed, but it seems pretty clear to me that the 'doing' or 'movement' isn't a product of me, rather, this doing or movement flows through this human vessel.

Apologies, more than 2 cents there.... Ha.

-Rob M

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[Dan Kilpatrick]

Rob M,

I especially appreciated what you shared at the end here, resonates with me. Which is not meant as a confirmation of anything. As you said here, it is about coming to this in our own lives for ourselves in its own way. No one else can know that it seems to me. Here is this last part:

 "and while other's experience can be helpful pointers, you need to ultimately confront your own baggage... there is no skirting it, only through it.  And then, I guess the other observation, at least from here, is that "I" can pray to be more loving, or ask for my resistances to be removed, but it seems pretty clear to me that the 'doing' or 'movement' isn't a product of me, rather, this doing or movement flows through this human vessel."

Thanks, Rob. -Dan

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[Rani Madhavapeddi]

Rob, Diehards,

I think you raise an existential question. At an altruistic level everyone says love is being. No memory to hate or dislike or not like. 

On the other- we face this all the time. As a kid I would tell my Mother I don’t like ‘this’ person and she would ask why? Did the person say anything to you? Or did the person in any way upset you? The answers to all her questions were no. Then my Mother would say to Love everyone is our nature so find out why you dislike a person you have never met before and never said anything to displease. What I learnt is there is a visceral reaction from within that is uncomfortable when we meet someone for the first time. Sometimes drawn to them sometimes repelled. There is no logic for it. I am not sure if you have had a similar reaction be it negative or positive. So growing up I always felt maybe I don’t have this love within me. 

So I started to watch those irrational reactions Today I don’t seem to react to anyone like that. Do I love everyone? All I can say is the dislike fell away. 

Not very helpful was it? 

Rani Madhavapeddi Patel

On May 30, 2025, at 7:20 AM, Rob MacDonald <rjma...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Janet Asiain]

Rani, Dan, Rob M, Andy, Diehards All,

May I say that this big conundrum of what is love and do I have it goes away when I become aware that love isn't "personal" and hasn't got anything to do with like/dislike or any of the hormonal/glandular delights we also label as love, but which are actually attraction (or its mate repulsion). Similarly like/dislike. Or approve/reject. etc. The love K is speaking about (or the Dalai Lama or all the rest of the wise ones)  isn't an emotion or even a feeling. 

It's (not my own words but they resonate) benevolence, wishing-well, hoping that all beings will be happy, compassion, etc.. Truly. Not wishing one wished other people (and all beings) well, whether one likes/approves, is attracted, whatever, but actually the doing of it. It can be seen in its reverse as not wishing others ill (etc) despite disapproval, dislike, repulsion, etc. It can be approached in that way, I have found.

Could say more but I'd ramble.

Janet

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[Rob MacDonald]

Rani,

Definitely helpful!  That's why I dig this group.  I appreciate the sharings of videos and articles and what not, but what I am really interested in is these instances of "Have you ever noticed this?" or "Have you ever considered this?" when it comes from a place of personal perspective.

I guess for me, most of my first 18 years of life were traumatic.  Being relentlessly bullied at school because of my visual impairment during the day, and coming home to an emotionally alcoholic at night.  Also, being visually impaired it is very hard to pick up on social queues and that always made me seem awkward in social situations, until someone got to know me.  Unfortunately most people never got past that initial awkwardness.  I say all that to say I have always had a defensive default mode with experience, that is conditioning that complicates this conversation for me, I think.  (This vessel is a work in progress, clearly)

One VERY clear experience, though, was how I met my wife.  We met at college, and even though my vision is not great, whenever I would see her somewhere on campus something deep inside would scream, "You really need to get to know that girl".  It was so different from being simply attracted to another.  It isn't quite an awakening or realization story, and this voice inside me saying this was not a voice at all.  It's why I can understand when we talk about grokking something, because in spite of my fears and bashfulness with ANYTHING social, something undefinable from the depths of the core of 'me' drove me to get over all that conditioning to make sure I found a way to talk to her.  Fast forward a few decades and we DO NOT have a storybook marriage, but the ways she challenges me, no doubt, has helped me be right here, right now (as if it could be any other way 😂).

All I am left with is what you said, "There's no logic in it".  And as I have heard Paul say few times, "The lotus continuously blooms" ❤️

-Rob M.

On Fri, May 30, 2025 at 11:58 AM Rani Madhavapeddi <rmadha...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Dan Kilpatrick]

Rani,

Like Rob M, I really appreciated your story. Perhaps love was involved somehow in the falling away, who knows..... And to your last statement about not being helpful, maybe yes and no at the same time! Who knows!  -Dan

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[Rani Madhavapeddi]

😂🥳💜

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