The big question

[Roger King]

I’m phrasing this in the category of what should happen… Not what is likely to happen…

Assuming the collapse continues to the point where the Tigers are the odd team out in the postseason entirely…If you were Chris Ilitch would you fire Hinch and/or Harris?  

I’m sure we all have a lot to say about this over the coming day/weeks… But my initial feeling is even though I’ve found more to criticize about Hinch these last few years, I think there’s probably more of a case to fire Harris. 

When it comes to Hinch, I will say this is where I miss Jim Leyland.  Is anyone getting yelled at in that locker room? Is there any attempt to put the heat on people?  Whether it’s theatre or not, it might be cathartic for some Tiger fans to see Hinch actually angry/frustrated in front of the post game microphones for a change :-)

Roger King
El Presidente
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[Paul Meloche]

I’ve thought about this recently too. My gut says give both another year. They both looked like geniuses for about 12 months and I don’t want to get rid of one or the other over five of frustration.

I think it’s clear this is a fringe playoff team in its current state. Give Hinch some collateral for getting the most out of roster that has some question marks and while Harris largely constructed that roster I think his drafting and some of his FA signings also warrant him some more time. 

If we’re having this conversation at this time next year I’ll probably think differently. 

Paul M.

On Sep 24, 2025, at 4:27 AM, Roger King <pnag...@pnagency.com> wrote:



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[Peter Welch]

Was Harris aware of the sexual harassment and other awful behavior of others in the Tigers' organization in the past few years?

I was wondering if that might be an excuse to fire him, in addition to the collapse this year.

(I'm not saying Harris should be fired, but just wondering if that might be used against him).

Peter

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From: detroit...@googlegroups.com <detroit...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Paul Meloche <meloc...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2025 9:18 AM
To: Roger King <pnag...@pnagency.com>
Cc: Tigers List <detroit...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: The big question

 

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[Peter Welch]

I think Hinch annoys a lot of fans with his generally calm demeanor and calm response to adversity.   They want someone to rant and rave like a lunatic, which is kind of silly.

Hinch pushed a lot of right buttons last year (especially with the pitching staff) and was very lucky.  It seemed like almost every reliever they called up last year was effective.  This year not so much.  

Peter

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From: detroit...@googlegroups.com <detroit...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Roger King <pnag...@pnagency.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2025 7:27 AM
To: Tigers List <detroit...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: The big question

 

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[Roger King]

Yes, the sexual harassment allegations are another part of this that I actually didn’t consider when making this initial post.  

The baseball only case against Harris would obviously boil down to his weak trade deadline moves, which arguably go back to the first full season he was in charge with the E-Rod debacle and a few other things. But I think also you’d have to make a bigger case for roster management in general and his cautious philosophy/lack of risk taking.

Certainly it would appear Harris has improved the minor league systems in general, the scouting and all of that… But he already inherited good young talent and even some of the scouting and player development people, if memory serves. Hinch & Fetter were already in place as well.  So it’s not like he inherited a disastrous situation on that front. But I have no doubt he has improved it. 

So letting him go would be more of a philosophical thing I think. His argument for his cautious approach would no doubt be about building a team that will be competitive multiple years in a row but at some point, all competitive teams still have to make at least some bold moves or acquire some impact free agents, etc. If you’re a cautious personality now, it may be difficult to switch gears and be bold when you need to be.  Sort of like people who penny pinch before they’re wealthy but when they finally get to a point of having real money, they still find it difficult to spend (no, this is not meant to be a dig at Chris Ilitch :-)

And there’s the whole Skubal situation lurking in the background as well. Arguably there should’ve been some pressure on to win now while he’s still a Tiger.  Certainly, it would be hard for Harris to make the argument that he pulled out all the stops to try to make that happen.  Maybe Skubal does ultimately sign with the Tigers again but I doubt it happens before he at least sees what other free agent offers are out there at the end of next season.

So I do worry about Harris not being able to shake his cautious mindset and always thinking he needs to hang onto every young talent “for the future”. When he should recognize that not every prospect pans out and if you’ve got a chance to improve a potential playoff team now, you need to make those moves, even if it means giving up a good player/prospect.

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[Paul Meloche]

I didn’t consider the harassment allegations when I gave my earlier reply. If Harris was aware and ignored it or fostered the culture then he should (IMO) obviously be gone. 

Paul M.

On Sep 24, 2025, at 7:09 AM, Roger King <pnag...@pnagency.com> wrote:



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[David Panian]

That harassment situation won't affect whether the Tigers keep Harris. The guys accused of harassment were almost entirely on the business side of the organization — Ilitch Sports and Entertainment — or at Bally/FanDuel Sports. Harris is president of baseball operations, or POBO as podcasters and talk radio hosts like to call him and others with that title. He probably doesn't even know most of the people on the business side of things.

To summarize the harassment allegations: There was the assistant general manager who quit earlier this year before the Tigers could fire him. That led to revelations that were in The Athletic's story a couple of weeks ago, all of whom were hired by someone other than Harris. That someone is probably Ilitch Sports and Entertainment CEO Ryan Gustafson or someone who works for him at IS&E, which oversees the business operations of the Tigers, Red Wings, Little Caesars Arena, the Fox Theater, Pine Knob and other venues.

There is some overlap, like positions that oversee how things work at the stadium on game days, but just a look at the titles show that these are not baseball operations people:

- Ilitch Sports and Entertainment VP of premium sales and private events (fired)

- Director of video content production (in charge of the videos that play on the scoreboard during games; fired)

- VP of business operations in Lakeland (fired)

- VP of game presentation and fan experience (suspended)

- VP in charge of public relations and broadcasting (promoted; Tigers say a concern about him was not related to sexual harassment or similar misconduct, it was investigated and no wrongdoing was found)

- Craig Monroe (fired over allegations of sexual assault of a minor from when he was a minor leaguer, but no criminal charges have been filed)

- Cameron Maybin (accused of inappropriate comments or conduct; did not return to the TV broadcasts this year)

As to whether Harris and/or Hinch might be fired for what's happened since early July, I don't think so. While Harris hasn't given any target dates for when he thought the Tigers could be contenders, we've speculated here that the target year might have been 2026 because that was the earliest we thought guys like Max Clark and Kevin McGonigle would get to the majors and when Jackson Jobe might be rounding into a top-of-the-rotation starter. 

If that's what Harris has been telling Chris Ilitch privately, then I'm guessing the Tigers have just been taking last season and this season as positive signs that the plan is working, perhaps even better than expected. It explains why he's held on to Clark, McGonigle and whichever other prospects the Tigers think can be contributors to the Tigers in the near future and beyond rather than trade them for veterans this season.

I expect the Tigers will stick with Harris and Hinch for at least another year to see how McGonigle and Clark develop at Toledo and evaluate whatever roster moves Harris makes to keep the Tigers in contention. If he keeps whiffing on acquisitions, like with Alex Cobb and Kenta Maeda, then I could see the Tigers making a change.

David

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[Peter Welch]

The Menzin resignation because of his record of sleazy behavior toward women over a few years is the one that concerns me about Harris.  He had to be fairly close to Harris as an assistant GM.

Peter

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[Peter Welch]

Kind of a rough year for Harris.  Some criticism is deserved for some of his moves, but it's not his fault that some things just didn't work out as most people would have expected.

Acquiring Charlie Morton, who had been pitching ok, and Morton completely imploding.  (At least the relief pitching prospect we gave up for Morton, lefty Micah Ashman, isn't that good of a prospect).  

Signing John Brebbia (who didn't have a great track record to begin with) for bullpen help and Brebbia doing nothing.

Signing  "Creaky Hips" Cobb as a FA and getting nothing from him...woof!

Trading arguably our best catching prospect (Jimenez) for Paddack ...woof!

Not bringing up Andrew Chafin before he had the right to leave and sign elsewhere.

Not giving Matt Gage a longer look or giving PJ Poulin a chance.

Can't blame Harris for Flaherty's consistency issues.  I liked re-signing Flaherty because he was very good for us last year before he was traded.

The Torres signing was a good 1-year stopgap move (pretty sure Torres will be signing elsewhere).  Torres was deservedly an All-Star and was our most consistent hitting threat for a while, although he's tanked in the 2^nd half like many of his teammates (.684 OPS since the AS Break).

Getting Finnegan at the deadline for not much was a good pickup.  Finnegan was great until he got hurt (he came back without a rehab assignment and probably needed one).  Not Harris's fault that Finnegan got hurt.

Can't blame Harris for trying to sign Bregman.  He tried.  But with our luck, Bregman would have gotten hurt and turned into Jonathan Schoop.  Actually Bregman has missed 40+ games with Boston this year with injury.  In retrospect, if we had given Bregman a long-term deal we might have regretted it.  He's in his 30s and now getting injured.  That's not a good sign for an infielder.

We don't know what other teams were asking for at the deadline for the more "big name" pitchers or hitters.

If they were asking for McGonigle, Clark, Briceno, etc. then I'm glad Harris didn't trade them.  I wouldn't have traded any of those guys for, say, Merrill Kelly or Jhoan Duran.  The only pitcher worth trading any of those guys for was Paul Skenes, but Skenes wasn't on the market. 

I wouldn't have traded any of those guys for Eugenio Suarez as much as I would have liked to have Suarez (although he's been pretty bad with Seattle).  There actually were few star hitters available at the deadline for trade.

Peter

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From: Roger King <pnag...@pnagency.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2025 10:09 AM
To: Peter Welch <pw...@hotmail.com>

[Roger King]

I agree Harris is unlikely to lose his job, especially if the Tigers can still squeak into the playoffs.

And Harris would no doubt argue that at the trade deadline, the Tigers were in a very good position and he was undoubtedly thinking we’ve got a lot of young talent and we’re already making the playoffs… This isn’t a veteran team where we’ve got to win now or else.

Again, I’m of the mindset you do have to try and win when you can no matter the situation, but in context, Harris could certainly make the case that the Tigers didn’t appear to need tons of urgent help, at least not to the point to warrant unloading a bunch of young talent, etc.

He took a gamble that just getting a few stopgap pitchers might be all that was needed, given the Tigers position in the standings at the time.  

Roger King
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