Fire Harris and sell at the deadline!

[Shawn Parker]

We might as well get what we can for Skubal. We are cooked for this season. I don't like to be a Debbie Downer but this ain't happening this year.

[Roger King]

Obviously, they will be sellers at this point. This home stand was the last chance to get back into it but going 5-5 isn’t going to cut it. 

I’m definitely going to keep my expectations low on what they can get in a Skubal trade. The deadline is a touch later this year in early August so we’re talking a little less than a two month rental. And of course, there is still the uncertainty of whether Skubal will truly return to Cy Young form or just be “pretty good”. That will obviously determine what the Tigers get for him.

But they will have other obvious trade chips like Torres & Jansen. And Mize could be moved too, in addition to Skubal.  And hey, if Flaherty has a couple more starts like today, they might get something for him too. 

I would look to unload some of the bench as well like McKinstry, whose skill set might help a contending team for a couple of months. But obviously they won’t get a lot for guys like him.

Roger King
El Presidente
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On Sun, Jun 28, 2026 at 4:57 PM Shawn Parker <sdpark...@gmail.com> wrote:

We might as well get what we can for Skubal. We are cooked for this season. I don't like to be a Debbie Downer but this ain't happening this year.

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[Peter Welch]

Yep,  it ain't happening.  I've pretty much lost what little optimism I had left.

Tigers have lost 15 games this year when they led in the 7^th inning.  They are 11-30 in games decided by 1 or 2 runs.  

Bad bullpen, bad hitting, bad fielding, bad managing and bad front office.  Time to roll some heads and burn some s--t down.  

The Skubal era is ending with a whimper.  Pathetic waste of talent.

Peter

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From: detroit...@googlegroups.com <detroit...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Shawn Parker <sdpark...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, 28 June 2026 16:56:54
To: Detroit Tigers <detroit...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Fire Harris and sell at the deadline!

 

We might as well get what we can for Skubal. We are cooked for this season. I don't like to be a Debbie Downer but this ain't happening this year.

--

[Michael W]

I agree we won’t see the same kind of haul for Skubal that was mentioned in the offseason.  We’ll have to see the final result, but at this point it looks like Harris flunked his most important test: navigating Skubal’s free agency.  When you look back on some of the (reputed) off-season offers, it may be a spectacular failing.   We’ll see.

Michael 

[Michael W]

Would you trade Greene?  He’s the most valuable commodity on the team besides McGonigle. Of course, it always depends on what you can get in return.  But would you shop him?

Michael

On Sunday, June 28, 2026 at 4:39:41 PM UTC-5 Roger King wrote:

[Peter Welch]

Yes.

Peter

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[Roger King]

No, I’d build back up around Greene-McGonigle-Dingler-Carpenter.  With the still young pitching staff (plus Valdez already signed), there is still a good core here.  

I feel like this can be more of a regroup for 2027 than a complete roster overhaul. 

Roger King
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[Peter Welch]

Carpenter seems like he could be a trade chip at the deadline for a team looking for a lefty bat down the stretch.  I wouldn't be shocked to see him traded at the deadline.

Greene will be a free agent in 2029 so we have him for 2 more seasons.  Greene is a bit of a chameleon as a hitter.  He's still looking for a balance between the 2025 and 2024 Greene.  He's having a good season but he's only on pace to hit less than 20 homers after hitting 36 last year and 24 in 2024.   His decline in power is disappointing. He also seems to be getting slower and his fielding is getting worse.  I would listen to offers for Greene.

Tork should no longer be considered part of the core.  He should be shopped around, but his value won't be much.  I could see him as a thrown-in as part of a multi-player trade.  Tork is a big disappointment. I think he needs to move to another organization.   I could still see Tork becoming a better hitter with another team, but it won't be with Detroit.

I'd still consider Keith part of the core but time is running out for him.  He might be better off away from Hinch in another organization.

Obviously, Skubal and Mize are major trade candidates.  Flaherty is a possibility as well.  Jansen probably has no trade value at this point as he looks cooked, and Finnegan's value isn't much either.  Dark horse trade candidate is Holton.

Peter

From: detroit...@googlegroups.com <detroit...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Roger King <pnag...@pnagency.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2026 8:21 PM
To: Michael W <miw...@gmail.com>
Cc: Detroit Tigers e-mail list <detroit...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Fire Harris and sell at the deadline!

 

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[Michael W]

I’m starting to think the window is closed for Greene.  He’s got two seasons (and this half) left before he’s a free agent.  He needed to win with Tork, Mize, Skubal and Carp.  That didn’t happen.  The next wave is McGonigle, Melton, Clark, and Rainer (Anderson, Briceño, Jobe) who will be hitting their prime when the current rookie leaguers arrive.  

I don’t think you can use last year’s strategy of have it both ways, keep everyone / trade nobody.  If you are all-in with the current core, you trade the rookie leaguers for some immediate help.  Or, you trade the arbitration-eligible (and older) guys for quality young players.

If you get caught “waiting one more year”, that’s when you get these Skubal-blunders.

i don’t think the current core plan will work, and it could set us back ten years.

Maybe it’s time to call it quits on the Avila strategy and start the next cycle.

 Michael 

[David Panian]

Carpenter is 28. He's not part of the Tigers' future. I would trade him. I just don't know that there's much of a market for an OF/DH type who's probably past his prime.

Greene probably could get a pretty good return, but I'd rather hang on to him and Keith. I wouldn't consider either untouchable, though. Since both have affordable contracts, even teams like Pittsburgh, Cincy and Miami might be interested, so there may be a possibility for a bidding war for them. I just don't think Harris is up to the task of getting a good return for anyone.

The Tigers should trade Tork, too, but his trade value is very low. Maybe he could be a throw-in with Skubal or Mize to help with the finances or to help the other team justify how many prospects they would be giving up. It seems like some team might think they can fix Tork.

I'm in favor of firing Hinch and Harris. I'd hire Joe Maddon as manager. If Maddon were willing to come on now and work with the rest of the coaches, I'd fire Hinch now. I just don't know if Maddon would do that. He'd probably rather start a season fresh with his own coaches.

David

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[Roger King]

Of course, we could all go back-and-forth about what we would do or what the Tigers “should” do…but what is Harris likely to do?  

I think there’s almost zero chance he “throws in the towel” on this current group. Obviously he wants to keep his job and trying to sell Ilitch on waiting at least another couple of years until this next batch of players hit their prime would be testing everyone’s patience. 

Basically, his pitch to ownership, and to fans, the last two years was…the talent is here, we don’t need to do more than tweak the roster as we’ve already got a contending core. And he also has the excuse of all the injuries this year which I think will be his main explanation for the poor team performance.  

I expect he’ll move the obvious pieces at the deadline: Torres, Flaherty, Jansen…maybe Mize. I’m not even sure about Skubal based on those comments last month where it was noted that Harris is hard to deal with. Will he actually find a deal to his liking and pull the trigger?

I think Harris is just going to go for a reset in 2027 and make the case that if healthy, this team can compete.  How much of that will be true belief vs ego vs wanting to save this job…there is no way to know.  

I’d love to know whether Hinch & Harris are at this point just a touch delusional about certain players. Like, do they think Tork is still going to have that truly great season? Do they think Keith is going to bust out and justify that big contract? Do they still think Vierling can be a key part of a winning team? I know it’s unlikely they would ever single any of these players out publicly, but I do wonder what they’re thinking now. I get the sense there’s a little bit of delusion which probably doesn’t bode well for the team in the short term.

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[Michael Borshuk]

I am with David: I would so welcome Maddon as our manager. Failing that, I would also be good with giving Lombard the opportunity. 

I am so sick of Hinch's contradictory mix of tinkering and stasis. And his self-important philosophisizing in interviews. 

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[Peter Welch]

Right, listen to offers for Greene.  Don't treat him as "untouchable". 

Hell, I'd even listen to offers for Dingler.  (I'm actually worried Dingler might wear down because he plays a lot).

We should have traded Skubal 2 years ago (or extended him 3 years ago), but the surprise 2^nd half run into the playoffs in 2024 and the hot start in 2025 changed everything.  This team pretended it was a contender after surprisingly making the playoffs in 2024 and squeaking into the playoffs in 2025, but Harris never really added the pieces to make them a legitimate contender.  We wasted Skubal's peak years.

Peter

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[Peter Welch]

I used to like Hinch but he's jumped the shark.

Peter

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Subject: Re: Fire Harris and sell at the deadline!

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[Peter Welch]

Torres probably won't be healthy enough at the deadline to receive anything decent in return.  Another team might trade for him while he's still on the IL, but the return will likely be some lottery ticket.

Peter

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Subject: Re: Fire Harris and sell at the deadline!

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[Peter Welch]

I think somebody looking for a lefty power hitter down the stretch could be interested in Carpenter.  

I could see him going to some other team and then next year he plays full-time against lefties and righties and does fine.  Hinch turning Carpenter into a platoon player is mismanagement on his part.  He's ruining Keith's development as a hitter as well.   Hinch will probably not let Max Clark hit against lefties next.

Tork needs to go somewhere else.  I could see him hitting 40+ homers for another team, but he won't be doing that with Detroit. 

Peter

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[Roger King]

Hinch probably should’ve been fired the moment he put Wenceel Perez at clean-up in a playoff game :-)

[Dave]

No worse that Ausmus sending Hernan Perez to PH in the bottom of the ninth in a 2-1 playoff game against the Orioles in 2014.

Runner on first, one out and Ausmus sends Perez up to the plate.  Perez had six plate appearances all season.  He, of course, grounds into a DP.

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[Dave]

I forgot to add that it ended the season for the Tigers.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/detroit-tigers/2091214537.476766.1782731362728%40mail.yahoo.com.

[Peter Welch]

Ausmus had righty Hernan Perez pinch hit for switch-hitter Andrew Romine against O's lefty closer Zack Britton in the bottom of the 9^th with runners at 1^st and 2^nd and 1 out after the Tigers had scored a run against Britton.  V-Mart and JD Martinez hit back-to-back doubles to start the inning to cut the lead to 2-1.  Bryan Holaday (another weak-hitting scrub who had replaced Alex Avila earlier in the game for some reason) then struck out with JD Martinez at 2nd and nobody out.  I can't remember if Holaday tried to bunt Martinez over, but he struck out on a 1-2 pitch. 

The O's then intentionally walked Nick Castellanos to face Romine with 1 out with Castellanos at 1^st and JD at 2nd, but Ausmus sent Perez up to bat for Romine and Perez hit into 5-4-3 DP to end the game and end the season for the Tigers.  Romine was a weak hitter but he was at least a veteran and not an untested raw rookie like Perez.

The Tigers had a really weak bench in that series.  Their best bench player, Rajai Davis, had been used as a pinch-hitter earlier in the game.  The player on-deck after Perez was backup CF Ezequiel Carrerra, who had come in to play CF after Davis pinch-hit for the starting CF Don Kelly (LOL!) in the bottom of the 7th.  Davis lined out against lefty Andrew Miller with a runner at 1st to end the 7th.  Instead of leaving Davis in the game to play CF, Ausmus brought in Carrera to play CF to start the 8th with the Tigers down 2-0.

If Perez had struck out or popped out instead of hitting into a game-ending double play, Carrera would have come to the plate instead of Rajai Davis with the tying run in scoring position and 2 outs.  So the Tigers' chances of tying or winning were pretty weak.  The bottom part of their lineup was awful.

I'm not sure why Holaday replaced Alex Avila at catcher in the middle of the game.  Did Avila get injured?  Avila had hit a double earlier in the game.

David Price started that game for the Tigers and allowed 2 runs in 8 IP.   Workhorse performance to keep us in the game.  Joe Nathan (LOL!) pitched a scoreless top of the 9th.

The Tigers couldn't do anything against future Hall of Famer righty Bud Norris, who pitched 6.1 shutout innings.  Ex-Tiger Andrew Miller pitched 1.2 shutout innings and Britton got the lucky save.

Peter

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Subject: Re: Fire Harris and sell at the deadline!

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[Tapu Shaikh]

On 6/29/26 02:21, Roger King wrote:
> No, I’d build back up around Greene-McGonigle-Dingler-Carpenter.  With
> the still young pitching staff (plus Valdez already signed), there is
> still a good core here.
>
> I feel like this can be more of a regroup for 2027 than a complete
> roster overhaul.

I disagree.  Without Skubal, we're cooked.  We're not going to lose him
and somehow get better.

[Roger King]

It needs to be a complete roster overhaul because the team loses one starter? Obviously no debate Skubal is a huge loss, but that seems a bit of a stretch.

I mean as good as he is, he only helps 1 out of every 5 days.   

I’m open to the argument that a roster overhaul is needed, but not just because of the loss of Skubal. 

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[Peter Welch]

The Tigers went 6-22 in May, which wrecked their season, but in the majority of their May games they had decent starting pitching, certainly decent enough to have gone .500 if they had any kind of hitting, fielding and bullpen support.  I don't think missing Skubal hurt the team that much.

The problem in May was horrible hitting, bad fielding, bad managing decisions, and poor bullpen performances.

The Tigers have continued to get mostly decent starting pitching in June but haven't been able to make any inroads in the standings, again because of poor hitting, poor fielding, bad managing, and a poor bullpen.  Even if Skubal had pitched more like the pre-surgery Skubal in his starts after coming off the IL recently, there's no guarantee the Tigers win those games due to their other issues.

I'm not saying Melton is the next Skubal, but if Melton keeps pitching well and stays healthy, he'll be an adequate replacement for Skubal next year.

The Tigers also should get Jobe and Olson back at full strength next year (we hope), and they have a chance to be decent starters.  Montero is showing he can be a solid mid-rotation starter, plus we'll have Valdez back (likely).  Valdez isn't really an ace anymore but he's still a decent mid-rotation starter.  I think the Tigers should try to re-sign Mize, but I'd say it's less than a 50% chance he re-signs.

The Tigers also have a couple of starter prospects in the upper minors who might be able to help next year (Andrew Sears, Jake Miller).

It's also possible the Tigers could acquire a couple of near-ready younger starters if they trade Skubal, Mize, Flaherty, and other trade chips at the deadline.  They also could sign a decent starter as a free agent if Mize signs elsewhere.   There are some decent free agent starters available after this season.

So I think losing Skubal next year won't be the biggest hole to fill on this team.  Starting pitching will still be a strength. 

We need much more massive upgrades in hitting and the bullpen.

Peter

---

From: detroit...@googlegroups.com <detroit...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Roger King <pnag...@pnagency.com>
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2026 1:57 PM
To: Tapu Shaikh <taput...@gmail.com>
Cc: detroit...@googlegroups.com <detroit...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: Fire Harris and sell at the deadline!

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[Michael W]

>I'm not saying Melton is the next Skubal, but if Melton keeps pitching well and stays healthy, 

>he'll be an adequate replacement for Skubal next year.

>The Tigers also should get Jobe and Olson back at full strength next year (we hope), and they have a chance 

>to be decent starters.  Montero is showing he can be a solid mid-rotation starter, plus we'll have Valdez 

>back (likely).  Valdez isn't really an ace anymore but he's still a decent mid-rotation starter.

I think the assessment that Valdez, Melton, Montero, Olson and Jobe could be a solid rotation is fair.  We should add that Jobe has clearly not proved himself yet, and Olson has to prove that the injuries haven't set him back.

The bigger problem is that this assumes they are all healthy.  We've seen the last several years that we not only need our 6th and 7th starters, but often our 8th and 9th.  There really isn't much behind these guys in the minors.  Peter mentioned Sears and Miller, but both have been injured this year, and neither one has ever had a good full season as a starter above (low) A ball.

You could say, "well let's sign a couple of good free-agent starters".  But good starters aren't cheap, and the "stick with the core" strategy requires us to add some hitting talent (as everyone on this thread has mentioned).   And who will be the closer?  I don't think we can reasonably expect to sign four or five high quality free-agents - it's just too expensive.  

As we have talked about over the years, adding free-agents to complete a championship team only works when you have a small number of holes to fill.  You have to build a core from the farm. The current team has too many holes and the core isn't strong enough.  

I think it's got to be a teardown, and it has to be this year while the older players still have some value. 

Michael

[Roger King]

A tear down is when you only have a couple of players who could legitimately be part of the future.  What are we talking about here?

Greene-Dingler-Carpenter-McGonigle-Keith-Jobe-Olson-Valdez-Melton-Montero...plus Clark next season (if not sooner).  That's 11 guys - all under 30, except Valdez.  It's well over half the roster not including the pen (which I think clearly does need a teardown).

Plenty there to build on. 

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[Michael W]

> Greene-Dingler-Carpenter-McGonigle-Keith-Jobe-Olson-Valdez-Melton-Montero...plus Clark next season (if not sooner).  

>  Plenty there to build on.   [...] 

I knew you were really a Keith fan at heart   ;-)

Michael

[Roger King]

Well I'm throwing Keith in there because he is signed for 3 more years! :-)

On that note, don't forget that Javy Baez still has 1 more year.  I assume, though, that the Tigers would be willing to eat that and send him on his way.  

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[Peter Welch]

“Good starters aren’t cheap” but re-signing Mize should cost a lot less than re-signing Skubal.  It won’t even be close.  I’d feel better about the potential rotation next year if we can re-sign Mize.

However, I think Mize will probably sign elsewhere.

While it’s true that Olson and Jobe are question marks next year and we can count on some of the pitchers to get injured (remember Melton and Montero haven’t had Tommy John surgery yet), I think if the Tigers can acquire a couple of near-ready younger starters for Skubal it will help with the starting pitching depth.   For example, if the Tigers could get an Emmett Sheehan and River Ryan from the Dodgers for Skubal that would be a good deal.

The Tigers will have some money to spend next year.

I will look at the list of free agent starters available after this season and see if there are any guys who might be within the Tigers' price range.

Of course, with the uncertain status of the CBS negotiations, it's hard to predict anything next year.

Peter 

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[Peter Welch]

Sorry, “uncertain status of CBA negotiations” not “CBS negotiations”.  

Peter

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[Roger King]

Mize is dealing again tonight.  He has shut out the Yankees through 6, with only one hit allowed and 8 K’s.  Tigers up 7-0!  

Mize is now 6th in the AL in ERA.  Tigers are hopefully preparing to try to keep him.

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[Peter Welch]

Hao-Yu Lee 2-4 with a double and 2 RBIs tonight so far.  OPS up to .687. He's on fire!

Peter

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[Peter Welch]

I want the Tigers to re-sign Mize, but his performance tonight vs. the Yankees might make them interested in trading for him.

The Yankees' top prospect overall is 21-year-old SS George Lombard, Jr. but I doubt they'd trade him for Mize (or Skubal).  

It would be amazing to get Lombard, Jr. for Mize or Skubal.  Lombard, Jr. at SS and McGonigle at 3B would be a great building block.  I don't see it happening, though.

Do the Yankees have any good near-ready pitching prospects?

They recently called up their top pitching prospect, 22-year-old righty Elmer Rodriguez, from AAA.  He has 4.76 ERA in his first 4 major league starts.

Rodriguez had a 2.78 ERA in AAA this year in 11 starts.  He can throw 99-100 mph.

Their next best pitching prospect is 23-year-old righty Carlos Lagrange, who is currently in AAA with a 4.55 ERA in 18 games (11 starts).

Peter

---

From: Roger King <pnag...@pnagency.com>
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2026 8:59 PM
To: Peter Welch <pw...@hotmail.com>
Cc: Detroit Tigers e-mail list <detroit...@googlegroups.com>

[Peter Welch]

Sommers gave up a 3-run homer to the annoying ex-Guardian Amed Rosario in the 8th, but no drama in the 9^th and the Tigers win 7-3.

Mize was dominant tonight.  Maybe his best career start.  I've been impressed with Mize.  Before this season, I thought he's been a bit of a disappointment after being a #1 overall pick, but he's coming into his own now as a top-of-the-rotation starter.  Injuries kind of knocked him back for a few years so he's a bit of a late bloomer at age 29.  I hope the Tigers re-sign him.

Peter

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From: Roger King <pnag...@pnagency.com>
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2026 8:59 PM
To: Peter Welch <pw...@hotmail.com>

Cc: Detroit Tigers e-mail list <detroit...@googlegroups.com>

[Peter Welch]

Here's the list of free agent starters after this season.  Some of them have club or player options so they won't necessarily be free agents if the option is picked up.

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/free-agents/available/_/year/2027/position/sp/level/mlb

Besides trying to re-sign Mize, I'd like to see the Tigers try to sign somebody like Kris Bubic, Cade Cavalli, Robbie Ray or Michael Soroka.  I don't think any of those guys would cost a ton of money and they aren't fossils like Maeda, Cobb and Verlander.

Peter

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From: detroit...@googlegroups.com <detroit...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Peter Welch <pw...@hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2026 7:54 PM

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[Mark Pattison]

Avila suffered a concussion  in that game and had to be replaced. As the Tigers were swept in the series, Avila didn't miss any games, so the concussion was a bit of a moot suspect. Avila brought it up when he spoke to the Mayo Smith Society June 20. (While I don't remember this particular play, I recall seeing one Tigers game on TV which is a foul ball off Avila's mask set off sparks.) Avila credited Brad Ausmus with  extended his career after having video shot of Avila's own bullpen sessions and recommending a hockey-style mask and a change in catching position behind the plate. 

Mark Pattison

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[Peter Welch]

Got it.  Poor Avila, he was plagued with concussions.  Avila struggled against lefties so Ausmus might have pinch hit for him anyway in that game in the later innings when the O's brought in lefty Andrew Miller.

That was such a horrible series.  In game 2 the Tigers blew a 6-3 lead in the 8^th after Joba Chamberlain and Joakim Soria couldn't hold the lead.

I remember Ausmus kept bringing in Chamberlain in high-leverage situations even though he was terrible in the 2^nd half of the season.

Peter

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From: Mark Pattison <pattis...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2026 8:46 AM
To: Peter Welch <pw...@hotmail.com>

Cc: Detroit Tigers e-mail list <detroit...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Holaday for Avila (was: Fire Harris and sell at the deadline!)

 

[Michael Borshuk]

From the list of FA starters that Peter posted, I predict that Harris--should he still have a job--will sign Matthew Boyd. 

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