SSSD CDOS 2.58 boot disk image needed

[Amardeep Chana]

Could someone who has working hardware create a 5.25" single sided single density CDOS 2.58 boot disk IMD image, please?

There is a fellow in VCF forums who is trying to bring up an IMSAI with a 4FDC.  I tried to use z80pack but it doesn't seem to support small drives and init doesn't run anyway since it gets the index pules too fast under emulation.

My real hardware is not running right now so I can't use that, unfortunately.  If all the utilities don't fit on one disk, it might need a second disk image as well.

Thanks,

Amardeep

[Mike Arnold]

Amardeep, I run real hardware so can do that. However, I am in the UK and I believe you and your colleague are in the US. So, it will take some time for the post to deliver the disk. If no-one else can do it then I will send it. Let me know.

Mike

[Amardeep Chana]

Hi Mike!  Thanks for offering to help.  But physical disks are not needed.  Would you be able to read the created disk(s) using IMD and upload the image(s)?  I know everyone doesn't have an FM capable FDC laying around so that is part of the challenge.

Kind regards,

Amardeep

[Peter Higgins]

A related question... is is possible to recreate a boot disk image from the files provide in the Cromemco repository on Github.

For example, from the data provided in the folder m/cromemco/code/disks/017 CDOS 00.20

... is is possible to recreate an image file (and then an actual boot disk) for CDOS v00.20 ? At first glance it seems to me all the files that were on the disk are there, but there is no way to recreate the original disk format including the boot track.

[Damian Wildie]

https://github.com/cromemcos/m/blob/main/cromemco/code/disks/IMD/017C0020.IMD

---- On Fri, 08 Dec 2023 09:08:56 +1000 Peter Higgins <higgin...@gmail.com> wrote ---

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[Peter Higgins]

Thank you Damian!

Now that you have pointed it out this was of course obvious... I just needed to keep scrolling down to the end of the very long list of files in the "disks" folder till I got to the IMD folder.

[Amardeep Chana]

I think it is technically possible to recreate the boot disk.  From what I remember (and I might be recalling it incorrectly) the contents of the boot track are just the boot sector + CDOS.COM so theoretically we could steal a boot sector from another bootable CDOS diskette to recreate one from files.  It's nice to know the full images are available also.

[Damian Wildie]

According to catalog.txt, the 017 IMD image is bootable:

017     20140401 _SMSSSDST      CDOS 00.20  earliest ever known CDOS, now .IMD bootable, .DSK format works under ZEMU

---- On Fri, 08 Dec 2023 10:06:43 +1000 Amardeep Chana <asc...@gmail.com> wrote ---

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[Mike Stein]

Of course there's also Dave Dunfields's RT program to create a CDOS
boot disk over the serial port:

http://dunfield.classiccmp.org/img/

m

> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cromemco/18c46ca0c5b.cb40a9ea1529641.14112983274753226%40wildie.com.

[Amardeep Chana]

Oh, that's a good possible source of details for that.  I'll take a look just for academic reasons.  There's always something to be learned from clever solutions like that.  Thanks, Mike.

[Mike Stein]

Well, back in the day aside from mailing a diskette that was the only
way for some folks to get their Cromemco system up and running, since
not everyone had a system capable of writing Cromemco's dual density
floppy format; the Goteks have made things a lot easier.

I actually started to write a similar system at the same time but as
usual Dave was smarter and more motivated, i.e. he actually finished
his and his actually worked ;-)

m

> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cromemco/106e275d-943b-4a12-8805-7de2a3e508b5n%40googlegroups.com.

[Roger Hanscom]

Hi All,

I can (and would be happy to) supply a physical boot disk via snail mail to anybody who needs one.  I can do CDOS, ITC CP/M 2.2, and Z80 CROMIX.  Thing is I only have 5.25" HD drives, so boot floppies would have to be that footprint.

I'm in Washington State, so mailing outside of the U.S. might be a problem?  Why has mailing things gotten so expensive?

Roger

[Amardeep Chana]

Very kind of you to offer, Roger!  Peter found the single density images in the archive that the fellow on vcf needed so he's all set for now.  We have a great community of kind and helpful people in the Cromemco realm, for sure.

Thanks,

Amardeep

[Walt Perko]

Hi,

 

Is it possible for you to make .zip files of each of those four flavors and send them to me filename.piz so they go through mail scans? 

 

I can post them on my website to share and I’m sure other websites will rapidly grab’em for sharing too. 

 

I’m slowly trying to build an IMSAI-ZPU which will be a Cromemco Z-1 or similar, but I do want to eventually be able to BOOT to CP/M, CDOS and CROMIX.  I don’t know what ITC is. 

 

 

 

 

==============================================================================================
C U L8r,  °|°  Walt Perko  °|°        "Kids ... teach them the good stuff, and they still learn the bad stuff on their own."

http://www.R2Pv1.com/  RoboGuts™ Intelligent content for 3D printing making S.T.E.A.M. education better, easier and more affordable 

 

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                         "The World Needs a New Economic Model"
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[Peter Higgins]

Walt - boot disk image files for all versions of Cromemco's operating systems are available for anyone to download at deramp.com:

For CDOS:

https://deramp.com/downloads/mfe_archive/010-S100%20Computers%20and%20Boards/00-Cromemco/40-Cromemco%20Software/CDOS/Disk%20Images/

For CP/M:

https://deramp.com/downloads/mfe_archive/010-S100%20Computers%20and%20Boards/00-Cromemco/40-Cromemco%20Software/CPM/CPM%20Operating%20System/

If you have access to the Cromemco archive on Github, there are all posted there at well.

ITC refers to "Intelligent Terminals Corporation" - a third-party provider of hardware and software for use with Cromemco systems.

[Walt Perko]

Hi,

 

I’m thinking that IF somebody has a blank or near blank BOOT disk of the OSes, then the other files that are needed could be uploaded via PCPUT etc. onto those floppies, thumb drives etc. 

 

I’m not looking for the .imd files, but the files that are inside the .imd to put into .zip files. 

 

At some point there should be .zip files of every public program to share online … some might even be translated to other computers, while people also translate from other computers to the CDOS, CROMIX etc. systems. 

 

I’ve been learning more about MBASIC by translating other BASIC programs and getting some to work in CP/M 2.2 and MBASIC on my computer, then I post them on my website to share. 

 

 

 

==============================================================================================
C U L8r,  °|°  Walt Perko  °|°        "Kids ... teach them the good stuff, and they still learn the bad stuff on their own."

http://www.R2Pv1.com/  RoboGuts™ Intelligent content for 3D printing making S.T.E.A.M. education better, easier and more affordable 

 

Experiments to learn how to use various Electronic Components, Structured Computer Programming, Phonemes for Speech &Song in any language, and Art.

                         "The World Needs a New Economic Model"
==============================================================================================

            Sent from the Cyber7

 

 

From: crom...@googlegroups.com On Behalf Of Peter Higgins
Sent: Friday, December 8, 2023 10:09 AM
To: Cromemco <crom...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: SSSD CDOS 2.58 boot disk image needed

 

Walt - boot disk image files for all versions of Cromemco's operating systems are available for anyone to download at deramp.com:

For CDOS:

https://deramp.com/downloads/mfe_archive/010-S100%20Computers%20and%20Boards/00-Cromemco/40-Cromemco%20Software/CDOS/Disk%20Images/

For CP/M:

https://deramp.com/downloads/mfe_archive/010-S100%20Computers%20and%20Boards/00-Cromemco/40-Cromemco%20Software/CPM/CPM%20Operating%20System/

 

If you have access to the Cromemco archive on Github, there are all posted there at well.

 

ITC refers to "Intelligent Terminals Corporation" - a third-party provider of hardware and software for use with Cromemco systems.

On Friday, December 8, 2023 at 8:36:08 AM UTC-8 Walt Perko wrote:

Hi,

 

Is it possible for you to make .zip files of each of those four flavors and send them to me filename.piz so they go through mail scans? 

 

I can post them on my website to share and I’m sure other websites will rapidly grab’em for sharing too. 

 

I’m slowly trying to build an IMSAI-ZPU which will be a Cromemco Z-1 or similar, but I do want to eventually be able to BOOT to CP/M, CDOS and CROMIX.  I don’t know what ITC is. 

 

 

 

 

==============================================================================================
C U L8r,  °|°  Walt Perko  °|°        "Kids ... teach them the good stuff, and they still learn the bad stuff on their own."

http://www.R2Pv1.com/  RoboGuts™ Intelligent content for 3D printing making S.T.E.A.M. education better, easier and more affordable 

 

Experiments to learn how to use various Electronic Components, Structured Computer Programming, Phonemes for Speech &Song in any language, and Art.

                         "The World Needs a New Economic Model"
==============================================================================================

            Sent from the Cyber7

 

 

From: crom...@googlegroups.com On Behalf Of Roger Hanscom
Sent: Friday, December 8, 2023 7:46 AM
To: crom...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: SSSD CDOS 2.58 boot disk image needed

 

Hi All,

 

I can (and would be happy to) supply a physical boot disk via snail mail to anybody who needs one.  I can do CDOS, ITC CP/M 2.2, and Z80 CROMIX.  Thing is I only have 5.25" HD drives, so boot floppies would have to be that footprint.

 

I'm in Washington State, so mailing outside of the U.S. might be a problem?  Why has mailing things gotten so expensive?

 

Roger

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[Roger Hanscom]

Hi Walt,

>> Is it possible for you to make .zip files of each of those four flavors and send them to me

>> filename.piz so they go through mail scans?

How would I do that without going through the whole IMD thing (i.e. lots of work for me)?  If you want boot diskettes of those "four flavors", I would be happy to send them to you via snail mail if you give me an address.  Then you can do the IMD (or whatever) work on them?

>> I can post them on my website to share and I’m sure other websites will rapidly grab’em for sharing too.

That would be nice, but I think what I'm reading (from others) that those sorts of things already exist?

>> I’m slowly trying to build an IMSAI-ZPU which will be a Cromemco Z-1 or similar, but I do want to

 >> eventually be able to BOOT to CP/M, CDOS and CROMIX.  I don’t know what ITC is. 

Understood.  ITC is Intelligent Terminal Corporation (I think).  It is the nicest CPM implementation that I have found for the Cromemco (and maybe others?) when combined with the latest, greatest CCP replacement.

Roger

[Peter Higgins]

So far we have only been discussing ways to obtain a copy of original Cromemco boot disks, and the links I provided above are just for boot disks. You need to be careful when separating a bootable disk from the individual files that were originally provided on that bootable disk. Sometimes the boot loader on a disk will only launch a specific OS version provided on that disk. Also, sometimes the utility software provided on that disk will only work with the OS version provided on that disk, or a limited range of OS versions. Unless you want access to the individual files provided on boot disks for research purposes, I recommend you always supply manufacturer's boot disks as complete file images rather than a ZIP of the individual files found on that disk - else things will become very confused.

As a separate issue, if you want to discuss distribution of non-bootable disks containing commercial or shareware software utilities and applications, yes your proposal makes sense. If you have access to the Cromemco file repository on Github, folders for application software originally sold by Cromemco are provided with the individual files that were supplied on each disk - which I believe is what you are looking for. I should mention the curator of the Github collection has requested individuals interested in this software be asked to sign up for their own access, rather than having other web sites host copies of files taken from that repository.

[Mike Stein]

Where is the master Github catalogue located, where all those images
are listed? I'll make a note this time; every time I look for a disk I
spend 15 minutes looking for a number.

Thanks!

BTW, if you're not one of the anointed with access to the repo there's
an old version on Wayback.


m

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[Peter Higgins]

Is this the catalog you were looking for:

https://github.com/cromemcos/m/blob/main/cromemco/code/disks/catalog.txt

[Walt Perko]

Hi,

 

I gave up trying to get access to the GitHub … I could never get a response to my requests.

 

 

 

==============================================================================================
C U L8r,  °|°  Walt Perko  °|°        "Kids ... teach them the good stuff, and they still learn the bad stuff on their own."

http://www.R2Pv1.com/  RoboGuts™ Intelligent content for 3D printing making S.T.E.A.M. education better, easier and more affordable 

 

Experiments to learn how to use various Electronic Components, Structured Computer Programming, Phonemes for Speech &Song in any language, and Art.

                         "The World Needs a New Economic Model"
==============================================================================================

            Sent from the Cyber7

 

 

From: crom...@googlegroups.com On Behalf Of Peter Higgins
Sent: Friday, December 8, 2023 4:01 PM
To: Cromemco <crom...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: SSSD CDOS 2.58 boot disk image needed

 

Is this the catalog you were looking for:

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cromemco/35140c76-11a8-4c75-9d07-97dfcb8684d7n%40googlegroups.com.

[Aron Hoekstra]

I don't know if this is a taboo subject or what the deal is.. but maybe a good opportunity to ask.. what's the deal with private github, anyways?? like I understand wanting to have a single source for all things Cromemco.. but if the entire Cromemco repository ended up on Archive.org tomorrow (as it stands today), would that really be a bad thing?

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cromemco/03c801da2a33%244bd17d90%24e37478b0%24%40brainless.org.

[Roger Hanscom]

I agree 100%, Aron.  What good is an archive if it can't be accessed?  I used to go on the archive all the time to look at the Cromemco portion.  Now that it is locked up in github, I am not able to use it.  What is really ironic is that some of my work (mostly with RDOS) is in the archive.  I had it on-line on my Web site, and it was incorporated into the archive -- without even asking.  Sort of like a Bill Gates trick if you ask me.

Roger

[Mike Stein]

I assume you followed the instructions on Github?

https://github.com/cromemcos/public

Here's the archive; it hasn't changed much:

https://web.archive.org/web/20170903195632/https://amaus.org/static/S100/cromemco/

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cromemco/03c801da2a33%244bd17d90%24e37478b0%24%40brainless.org.

[Aron Hoekstra]

I'm pretty sure Walt has mentioned (here) numerous times that he's tried to gain access to the repo with no luck.. Nothing against the people/person running it.. I'm sure there are legal reasons why things were set up the way they were...but I think it's time to consider opening the repo up to the public. I genuinely doubt there's anything that anyone has to worry about personally, litigiously...

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cromemco/CAHHfo1voBaZ05N4b0HxNh_hBB%3DSt5eziRhA4VY2qZamz_AsO7A%40mail.gmail.com.

[Mike Stein]

I agree that it's a PITA, but after the thousands of hours he's
probably spent scanning all those documents and archiving many
hundreds of disks, I guess Marcus is entitled to try to keep some
control over who accesses them.

Roger says he doesn't have time to archive 4 disks; imagine doing a
thousand, some more than once, and scanning almost every manual
Cromemco ever printed...

Wish I could help, but I can only add new members to the group; keep
trying, unless there's a problem Marcus usually shows up sooner or
later. Meanwhile, you'll probably find what you need in the Wayback
archive.

BTW, what happened to the non-Cromemco stuff from his old web site?

m

On Fri, Dec 8, 2023 at 8:42 PM Roger Hanscom <norwe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I agree 100%, Aron. What good is an archive if it can't be accessed? I used to go on the archive all the time to look at the Cromemco portion. Now that it is locked up in github, I am not able to use it. What is really ironic is that some of my work (mostly with RDOS) is in the archive. I had it on-line on my Web site, and it was incorporated into the archive -- without even asking. Sort of like a Bill Gates trick if you ask me.
>
> Roger
>

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[Mike Stein]

Looks a little different from what I remember but yes, I think that's
the one; thanks very much!

Code/disks... of course, should have remembered.

> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cromemco/35140c76-11a8-4c75-9d07-97dfcb8684d7n%40googlegroups.com.

[norwestrzh]

>> Is it possible for you to make .zip files of each of those four flavors and

>> send them to me filename.piz so they go through mail scans? 

I dropped the boot diskettes in the snail mail today (Monday) for you Walt.  ETA is next Monday (12/18).  BTW, there are only 3:  CP/M, CDOS, and Z80 Cromix.  Not sure where the "four" came from!

Sorry to repeat, but this is important:

1.  These are 5.25" HD diskettes (1.2 MB capacity).

2.  Use a "straight" 34 conductor cable (as opposed to one with a "twist").  Most HD drives that I've ever come across have a jumper block on them to set drive select.

3.  Any time Cromemco asks what kind of a disk they are, say 8" or /dev/fd{a,b,c, or d}.  I'm told that the 5.25" HD drive is electrically equivalent to an 8" drive (but I'm a floppy drive dummy, so who knows?).  Cromemco shouldn't know the difference.

4.  The only hardware mod. that you'll have to make is the 5.25" drive wants to see READY* grounded.  I just put a shorting block across the 50-pin connector on the 16FDC.  I believe it is the 11th position over from the cable stripe (pin 1)?  If you need the 50-pin connector for anything else (can't imagine what), you'll just have to add a bodge wire to the 16FDC.  BUT, I'm pretty sure that *real* 8" drives won't tolerate READY* being continually grounded!

Good luck.

Roger

[Walt Perko]

Hi,

 

Thanks, I’ll keep an eye open for them … I really appreciate this help. 

 

 

 

==============================================================================================
C U L8r,  °|°  Walt Perko  °|°        "Kids ... teach them the good stuff, and they still learn the bad stuff on their own."

http://www.R2Pv1.com/  RoboGuts™ Intelligent content for 3D printing making S.T.E.A.M. education better, easier and more affordable 

 

Experiments to learn how to use various Electronic Components, Structured Computer Programming, Phonemes for Speech &Song in any language, and Art.

                         "The World Needs a New Economic Model"
==============================================================================================

            Sent from the Cyber7

 

 

From: crom...@googlegroups.com On Behalf Of norwestrzh
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2023 5:09 PM
To: Cromemco <crom...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: SSSD CDOS 2.58 boot disk image needed

 

>> Is it possible for you to make .zip files of each of those four flavors and

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[Roger Hanscom]

Hi Mike,

>> what format do you use for your disk images?

They are regular Cromemco 1.2 MB format (just like a DS/DD 8").  I use CDOS (or Z80 Cromix) "INIT" to format them.  As I said, Cromemco shouldn't be able to tell the difference between them and an 8".

I don't have a "WRTSYS" program for CP/M (too lazy to write one *grin*), so I use RDOS (2.52) to set up the boot tracks.  I can provide the recipe for that if you'd like?

>> I wouldn't mind a CP/M disk image if it's not too much trouble...

Sure, no problem.  I don't believe I still have your snail mail address, so please remind me?  In addition to being a boot diskette for ITC CP/M 2.2, for Walt's diskette I added all the software that came with the original that I copied from 8" to 5.25" HD many, many years ago.  Do you want me to do that for yours too?

>> Thanks,

Easy day!!

Roger

[Mike Stein]

Ah, no Roger, I don't want you to go to that much trouble. I thought
maybe you had a bootable image file for a Gotek or even a PC that you
could just email. I'm mainly interested in Cromemco hardware and
Cromix/CDOS, but one of these days I'd like to play with a later CP/M
version.

Yeah, I've been using 5" HD disks almost since the day they became
available; as a matter of fact I told Marcus about it and later the
3.5" HD drives as well, and he put up excellent descriptions of both.
I've always jumpered the 8" ready signal to the 34pin header, but it
sounds like just grounding it works just as well (and is simpler;-) )

I still use a 'real' 8" drive to read the piles of original 8" disks
that I keep meaning to archive one day.

But I really appreciate the offer! Thank you!

And an easy day for you as well! ;-)

m

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[Roger Hanscom]

>> Ah, no Roger, I don't want you to go to that much trouble.

No trouble, Mike.  I made a boot diskette for you already, if you want it.

>> I thought maybe you had a bootable image file for a Gotek

I have that too, if you want it.  I have found that I can boot up my System One into CP/M 2.2, CDOS, and Z80 Cromix via a GoTek as the A: drive.  I just have the three O.S.es on 3 different thumb drives.  I could probably put all three on a single thumb drive, but well ... I just haven't taken the time.  What I find really curious is the way 68k Cromix interacts with the GoTek.  I can make a bootable thumb drive for it, and it boots just fine .... the first time.  BUT, it will not boot after that.  Maybe 68k Cromix alters the thumb drive content in some way during boot up?  Don't know.  So, I continue to boot 68k Cromix from diskette.

Even if I e-mail the bootable CP/M thumb drive content, you may still want this *real* diskette.  ITC CP/M came configured for 4 drives (8"), but there are some files on the original ITC distribution that seem (I think) to be for configuring CP/M differently -- even to run from a hard drive?  There is a CPMGEN program and a bunch of .SPR files that are probably used with it.  I've just never played with it because I have no hard drive, and the 4 floppy drive config. is great for me.  There are also a couple of utilities that seem to be for running CDOS programs under CP/M.  I haven't tried a lot of that.  The original ITC distribution also has a bunch of 1980's vintage utilities that would probably not be of much interest to you.  All the files take up about half of the 1.2 MB floppy!

I can fix you up with the GoTek stuff, or a *real* floppy.  Just let me know.

Roger