Are there tools for creating disk image ?

Jay Cotton

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Jun 30, 2022, 3:31:41 PM6/30/22

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Are there s/w tools that can be used to create disk images on a host

system ? Like cpmtools.

Can the program that creates the *.IMG file read from a flat file ?

tnx

jc

Udo Munk

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Jun 30, 2022, 4:12:21 PM6/30/22

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The z80pack Cromemco systems emulation can. If you run CDOS/Cromix init and format an empty disk drive

a disk image will be created in the format resulting answering init's questions.

norwestrzh

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Jul 2, 2022, 11:26:05 AM7/2/22

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>> Are there s/w tools that can be used to create disk images on a host system ?

I'm not entirely sure about what you are trying to do, Jay .... BUT the Sydex application called ANADISK can produce a flat file of the contents of a diskette. It is a DOS application. Not sure if it will work with DOSBOX. I run it on a "native" DOS system.

Maybe I'm not reading your intent properly?

Roger

randy482

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Jul 2, 2022, 11:55:50 AM7/2/22

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The term disk image is misleading.

It can mean a raw image of sectors data in either logical or physical order, or it can mean a data file that includes formatting data.

Creating a disk image can mean taking a physical disk and creating one of the above images or it can mean creating out of whole cloth as in a Z80 emulator.

Randy

Jay Cotton

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Jul 2, 2022, 12:13:04 PM7/2/22

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My intent is to create a floppy disk that is formatted as a .IMD file.

Damian has code that almost works for what I need. Still some problems however.

The reason for .IMD format is that the hxc2001 floppy disk emulator has a requirement to run with .hfe format files.

It also has a converter to take .IMD files to .hfe.

All of this is aimed at getting code onto my computer.

tnx

jc

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randy482

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Jul 2, 2022, 12:39:18 PM7/2/22

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If you have a working floppy drive you can just set it up as drive A and your emulator as B then you can create a blank image and disk copy it to the emulator.

Randy

Jay Cotton

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Jul 2, 2022, 2:30:12 PM7/2/22

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Don't have a 'working' drive just now. Maybe next month.

jc

randy482

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Jul 2, 2022, 2:40:48 PM7/2/22

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Remember Cromemco is happy with many different drives from 3.5" to 8". Dou you have or can get and old PC with a floppy drive?

If it works on a PC it works on a Cromemco in addition to 8" drives.

Getting CDOS on a PC drive is easy using Dave's xfer program.

DAVES OLD COMPUTERS - Disk/Software Image Archive (classiccmp.org)

Randy

MikeS

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Jul 2, 2022, 6:38:16 PM7/2/22

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Am I blind? I don't see any xfer program; is that link correct?

There are programs to read/write PC format diskettes on a Cromemco system but AFAIK they expect 5.25 DS/DD media; those drives and PCs that can use them are getting a little rare.

There's always the serial port...

m

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randy482

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Jul 2, 2022, 8:03:46 PM7/2/22

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I don't know why it took me this long to see "the easy way".

First of all lets talk Cromemco floppies.

The Cromemco FDC has 34 & 50 pin drive connectors. The 50 pin can go to 1.2MB standard configuration this is your best choice to connect to the floppy emulator, the problem is it takes a custom cable. The 34 pin connector will plug directly into the emulator. The 34 pin connector can be configured as 80 track double sided (like the 3.5" dsdd).

For ease 34 pin would be best place to start (you can go 50 pin later).

Connect the emulator to the Cromemco FDC with a DOS 5.25" DSDD image selected.

Use Dave's "Cromemco RDOS" xfer via serial port to create a bootable CDOS disk image.

Now you should have a bootable Cromemco system ready to start playing with.

The bootable system will be a 5.25" SSSD (40 tracks single sided about 180K of storage) system ready to go. From there you can make more 5.25" disk images with up to 80 tracks double sided (over 700K of storage each).

Randy

MikeS

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Jul 2, 2022, 11:01:09 PM7/2/22

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At the very bottom of the code/disks section of the repository there are blank disk images of various formats; does that help?

m

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randy482

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Jul 2, 2022, 11:10:02 PM7/2/22

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In truth it would help if there were bootable hfe images in the Cromemco archive.

Both 5.25" 80 track double sided with useful utilities as well as 8" DSSD (500k) so anything from 4FDC up could have a working system with a floppy emulator. I would make them but my 64FDC isn't working.

Randy

MikeS

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Jul 2, 2022, 11:47:03 PM7/2/22

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I'm a little confused:

Why is the 50 pin connector your best choice? Why would you use it for anything other than a 'real' 8" drive?

I think Jay has a running 30.79 system, so I don't think he has to go through the CDOS/CRT business.

Finally, where are you getting 80 tracks/700K storage? Isn't it 77 tracks and 1.2MB?

Sounds like we're not on the same wavelength here; am I missing something?

On the other hand, I don't quite understand some of Jay's issues either...

m

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Jay Cotton

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Jul 2, 2022, 11:56:10 PM7/2/22

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Randy there are bootable hfe formats.

m/cromemco/code/disks/HxC

Of course you will need the hxc2001 to boot these.

jc

MikeS

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Jul 2, 2022, 11:57:15 PM7/2/22

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Are you sure none of them are bootable?

For instance, the catalog says that disk 167 is the bootable disk1 of 30.79, so could 167C3079.imd.hfe not also be bootable?

Has anyone tried it? I would, but I haven't needed or wanted a floppy emulator yet.

m

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Jay Cotton

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Jul 2, 2022, 11:58:53 PM7/2/22

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Mike:

My original plan was to load a patched copy of screen.bin on to one of my .hfe disk images and use that

for editing.

As you can image the 'stock' screen program is really unusable on an ansi display.

I have been working with Damian to wring out what I am doing wrong with his code.

Still no joy there.

jc

Jay Cotton

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Jul 2, 2022, 11:59:58 PM7/2/22

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I have booted image 167 in .hfe format on my machine.

randy482

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Jul 3, 2022, 2:51:47 AM7/3/22

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I hadn't seen the hfe files. Those should be enough to do most anything.

As far as 50 pin vs 34 it's the data rate. 50 pin is twice the rate. With a 16FDC the largest capacity disk is 1.2mb (77 tracks, two sided, 500mb/s), largest 34 pin (5.25") is over 700k (80 tracks, two sided, 250mb/s), 4FDC has 1/2 the capacity so l would skip the 34 pin 4FDC images since they would be so small @ 360k would be limited in space for utilities while the 50 pin would be almost twice the space.

So as far as minimal boot images for everyone I chose those two formats that are strange the 4FDC compatible 8" that would able to store plenty of utilities including xmodem as well as disk utilities, even space for an assembler. The 5.25" images might not have enough space on FM but by going MFM (16FDC) 5.25" should have plenty of space.

I was just thinking about minimal boot images to get anyone started.

Once you have a minimal boot image everything else is doable on your own.

All this was just musings to help not just here but in future help. Give anyone a starting point.

This gives people the answer to this thread and anyone else with an emulator the ability to bring up a complete Cromemco system.

Why just solve the current problem when you can solve future problems as well. Instead of this long rambling post a simple folder saying start here if you have an hxc2001 to have a working system on the archive.

So to answer the original question is there a way ... yes download hfe file from the archive.

Randy

MikeS

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Jul 3, 2022, 5:05:43 PM7/3/22

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Hi again, Randy

Yeah, bringing up a Cromemco system when you don't have any bootable disks can be a real PITA; the non-technical solution is to have someone mail you one ;-)

But I think you'll find that the 34-pin and 50-pin interfaces are wired almost completely in parallel and logically equivalent, albeit with separate drivers and irrelevant difference in /ready, side select and motor control; I don't think the controller knows what kind of drive it's connected to and any format or data rate differences would have to depend on which driver is used, not the connection.

People have been using 5.25 HD drives and 360RPM 3.5 HD drives connected to the 34 pin interface as 8" drives for years.

Do Cromix and/or CDOS actually recognize that 700KB quad density 80 track format?

m

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Mike Arnold

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Jul 4, 2022, 3:41:09 AM7/4/22

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I agree with Mike S about the 50 and 34 way connectors. The only thing to remember when connecting a 3.5in simulating an 8in to the 34 way connector is the ready line. It's not there on the 34 pin interface. I jumpered the ready line to a spare pin on the 34 way and then put in a bit of logic on the 3.5in drive to assert ready when the drive was up to speed. Some people just ground it permanently.

As for double tracked 5.25in drives, Cromemco were clearly thinking about it because I patched the disk header back in the 80s and for a laugh added DT (I think it was DT) to what appeared to be a reserved area. I then got the error message: "CDOS cannot read double tracked disks". Think that is also true for Cromix.

MikeS

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Jul 4, 2022, 4:57:39 PM7/4/22

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My HD drives (3.5 and 8") can be jumpered to provide /READY on pin 34, so I jumpered 5" pin 34 to 8" pin 22, but apparently just grounding pin 22 does indeed also work, especially for drives that are permanently set to provide Disk Change on pin 34 instead of /READY.

m

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cro memcos

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Jul 4, 2022, 7:33:50 PM7/4/22

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So Jay and others ...

The best and still to me quite revolutionary program is still cromixfs, now at release 2.4

And why? Because it can without any special hardware crea a Dave Dunfield IMD imagedisk image

and then the HxC disk emulator can ten take that image and convert it to a .HFE. There is also a batch command so you could convert all the .IMD you have at once

So now you have a .HFE file that can be a bootable Cromix image , for example, and a way to boot from a image file without actually making a physical diskette, which in 2022 is a bit error prone. The HxC can be configured to have 2 drives so without any other emulators you can now have a 2 x 8" drive system with a single boot disk and a second other disk e.g. applications or for transfer.

On the Github there is a directory with a lot of pre converted .hfe images .....

and more!

regards marcus

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Jay Cotton

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Jul 4, 2022, 7:46:50 PM7/4/22

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Hi Marcus:

I have been experimenting with Damian's Cromxfs code and I don't seem to be able to mount a drive created

with the code. I think Damian sent you a copy of a .IMD and .HFE disk that I created. Where you able to

do anything with that image ?. I set it up to be the second drive (c) on my machine and got some timeout

errors. You should find 2 copies of screen on that disk image.

tnx

jc

cro memcos

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Jul 4, 2022, 7:50:39 PM7/4/22

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Jay,

I am working with Damian on any issue with the cromix small disk image. Meanwhile the large i.e. 8" image works absolutely fine and has the advantage that is is about 4 times larger capacity at 1.2 MB not that tiny < 400KB 5.25" diskette image. It's for that reason that I always use 8" disks when making digital images ... capacity.

marcus

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Jay Cotton

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Jul 4, 2022, 8:18:23 PM7/4/22

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I shall attempt to do the 8" drive tonight.

tnx

jc

Jay Cotton

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Jul 4, 2022, 8:35:46 PM7/4/22

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Well that's interesting.

Seems to be working now with the 8" format. I did try that before but I guess

I did a bone head and made a mistake. This time it works.

So I am happy with this, and I think for the short term its going to work o.k.

I guess Damian has 1 bug on the small format to fix, there is also a problem with

adding files to an existing disk (small format I think).

tnx

jc

Damian Wildie

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Jul 4, 2022, 8:40:03 PM7/4/22

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Hello Jay

I found an issue with the IMD format used for small disks which may be impacting the IMD - HFE conversion. Could you test the attached small image?

Damian

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4s.IMD

Jay Cotton

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Jul 4, 2022, 9:26:40 PM7/4/22

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Hi Damian:

I find that this works. I can't run the screen programs, but that seems to be a different problem. See the log

Here is the file as downloaded.

$ ./fls 4s.IMD
cromix-fs version 2.4, Damian Wildie

Reading IMD file 4s.IMD
IMD header: IMD 1.17: 4/06/2010 13:59:22

Read 80 tracks

No sector errors

Disk format: CSDSDD

Version: 4161
9984 F 1 r-wa r--- r--- 32767 32767 2022-07-05 10:31:54 2 /scvt100.com
10240 F 1 r-wa r--- r--- 32767 32767 2022-07-05 10:31:54 3 /svt52.bin

I converted the file to hfe format and mounted it on the second disk drive.

Here is the boot log.

Cromemco RDOS 02.52
;
;b
Preparing to boot, ESC to abort

Standby
Address: Memory test by 16K blocks
000000h: ++++++++++++++++----------------

Floppy = 1, STDC = 6
Enter major root device number: 1
fda = 0, fdb = 1, fdc = 2, fdd = 3
sfda = 4, sfdb = 5, sfdc = 6, sfdd = 7
dfda = 16, dfdb = 17, dfdc = 18, dfdd = 19
Enter minor root device number: 4

System initialization complete

Cromix-Plus Operating System version 30.79
Copyright (c) 1985 Cromemco, Inc.
Distribution Version

PID = 6
Tuesday, November 25, 1997 11:33:48
DATE (mm/dd/yy):
TIME (hh:mm:ss):
Tuesday, November 25, 1997 11:33:48

If the message:

"Incorrect version of STDC firmware (1.20 or higher required)"

was displayed during boot procedure, please log in as "system" and
enter the command "boot" to reboot Cromix-Plus. Please see SUDS note
Cromix-Plus-1 for details.

Type "system", "user1", or "user2" to log in initially.

For information about this version of Cromix, log in as "newuser".
Any user may access this same information by typing "help newuser"
once logged in.

If you have reset the computer, immediately execute "check -s".

Cromix-Plus Operating System version 30.79
Copyright (c) 1985 Cromemco, Inc.
Distribution Version

Login: system

Logged in system Nov-25-1997 11:34:09 on tty1

Message of the day: Welcome to the Cromix-Plus Operating System
# create c
# mount sfdc c

^^^^^^^ this is the 4s.hfe image.

# ls c

Directory: c
scvt100.com svt52.bin
# /c/svt52
Channel access error
# /c/scvt100.com
Command not found: "/c/scvt100.com"
#

I think its working now.

tnx

jc

Damian Wildie

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Jul 5, 2022, 6:09:51 AM7/5/22

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Thanks Jay

cromix-fs version 2.5 can be downloaded from github

Damian

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MikeS

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Jul 11, 2022, 1:54:06 PM7/11/22

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Al Kossow at the CHM has some 8" Cromemco disks that appear to be UNIX TAR images; is there anyone nearby that could maybe archive those diskettes?

m

MikeS

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Jul 11, 2022, 1:54:06 PM7/11/22

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An excellent tool for working with IMD images to be sure!

I don't know if it's common knowledge but if you just want to extract or copy some individual file(s) or folders from a .TA or .TAR archive 7-Zip does that quite well.

mike

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Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2022 6:09 AM

Subject: Re: Are there tools for creating disk image ?

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