Possible bankiing support

[George Berzsenyi]

In the book my reference to the commitment by the MAA Committee on the American Mathematics Competitions (CAMC) to help with the problem section of the proposed journal was dated.  It was made in 1981 when Walter Mientka was its Executive Director, Steve Maurer was its Chairman, I was a member, and the various subcommittees were not overburdened with the preparation of two (A and B), rather than one examination.  Both Walter and Steve are dead, and my membership ended in 1987 after 12 years.  In any case, I wouldn’t want the present MAA or its CAMC in charge of the new journal.

The AMS may be a better fit, that’s why I wrote my opinion piece (referenced in the book) in the Notices of the AMS but got no response to it.  Alternately, COMAP should be considered and maybe even SIAM, though I think SIAM is too far from the high school scene.  Hence, my preference for an independent start-up.

The Australian Mathematics Competition, started by Peter O’Halloran totally independently from schools and mathematical and teacher organizations, is an excellent success-story.  In spite of the fact that the population of the USA is 13 times that of Australia, the popularity of their competition surpassed ours in recent years.  (in 1980, we had over 41,600 students in it; now we have 139,000, while the Australians went from a modest, but promising start with 1200 entries in 1976 to 600,000 in 2020. Their original support came from the Westpac Banking Corporation, which continues its support as far as I know.  (Learning from them, maybe we should consider banking support too!)

Please also recall that the commentaries of the book (Historical Reflections, Dedication, Kudos to Proposers, Epilogue, Aftermath, Final Remarks and most of the sidebars) were written by me, and hence the opinions expressed there are mine alone.  Let’s not blame Gabi and István for them.

[David Ash]

Thanks for this George! As I've tried to make clear, I'm not opposed to the idea of funding from giant corporations--indeed given the funding ask it will probably be essential at some point--but want to be cautious about how we approach it to ensure that the interests of everyone else involved are well protected. And I think we have a duty to the young kids--no matter how intelligent they might be and how well equipped they might be to look out for their interests--to be good role models and do our best to make sure their interests are protected. The fact that the kids are presumably very intelligent doesn't obviate our duties as mentors--also presumably very intelligent--to use our own intelligence to help advance the kids' interests.

All things being equal (and they may not end up being equal) I'd be more comfortable with funding from an established giant corporation like Westpac or Westinghouse. George Westinghouse had been dead for almost 30 years when STS was established. I still see the tech giants, no matter how much money they may have, as upstarts and I will have that view as long as the original founders are still around. The tech giants and some of the possible Wall Street sponsors still have too much of the original founders' egos involved--that can lead to undesirable unpredictability when we are trying to establish something lasting. If we get big corporate sponsors, I'd be more comfortable with a company that has been around for generations like Westpac's predecessor company was in 1976 and Westinghouse was in 1942. We need stability and the tech giants in my view aren't quite there yet. But a big established American bank might work well similar to how Westpac has worked out well in Australia.

With regard to your other point, George, yes I did get the sense that the actual writing of the Epilogue and Aftermath was more in your words than that of Gabi and István. At the same time, however, the names of Gabi and István are on the book as equal co-authors. I simply don't see a path forward if Gabi and István aren't able to take full and equal ownership of all the material in the book.

Right now the message you are essentially asking us to take to others is essentially this: "there is this really inspiring idea for a student mathematics journal that George, Gabi and István wrote about in this recent book they published. I'm really excited by the idea and want to help move the project forward. But, hey, George is trying to retire and Gabi and István don't necessarily believe the material in their own book." That's the message that, so far, you are leaving us with and I think that is going to be a really tough message to sell. "The Competition Corner in the Mathematics Student" is a published book that Gabi and István have put their names behind professionally.

Beyond that, I will note that I received--as I assume many of you did as well--George's email of earlier today saying it would be final circular. I do agree strongly that this effort is going to take more people involved than just myself. Walter Effross has also been actively posting. I've sometimes disagreed with Walter, but--perhaps actually because of this and the need to explore as many points of view as possible--I believe Walter will be an important voice going forward. I believe I will be an important voice going forward. I believe Gabi and István can also be important voices too, but am definitely confused and need clarification on George's apparent admonition that Gabi and István may not support the material in the book.

George has given a great deal to the mathematical community over the years and I definitely would support George if his goal is, indeed, to finally retire at 83. It is time for the next generation to carry it forward. That next generation includes Walter, Gabi, István and myself--but I believe George is right that we need many more active and enthusiastic participants to move forward. 

[George Berzsenyi]

Dear David,

It is clearly stated in the book that with the exception of the Co-editors' Preface, the other explanatory materials were written by me.  In 1981, István and Gabi were 15 and 14, respectively, living in Hungary, and not even dreaming about coming to America..  I suspect that the first time they learned about the Competition Corner was when I told them about it -- about 3 years ago.  Hence, they cannot be held responsible for the personal account given by me in the other explanatory pieces purposefully written in first person and identified on pages xvii to xxii of the book.  Though I put my signature only to the Historical Reflections and the Final Remarks, I clearly state that those other parts, as well as the sidebars with one exception were mine.  Therefore, even though they put their names to the book, they should not be held responsible for the often critical writings of mine in it.  Please, understand this and explain to others if the need comes about.  I offer their services, with their agreement, only as knowledgeable experts on the HUngarian scene and as capable moderators of the Discussion group.  I referred to them as my mathematical heirs as far as the book is concerned.  Thus, by leaving the scene, I certainly don't leave it vacuous.  There are at least 100 of you there, along with the book, my recent commentaries and Gabi and István.

Yours in problem solving,

George

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[David Ash]

George, got it!

Yes I may have been assuming that because their names are on the book Gabi and István mostly shared your views. I now realize that with the exception of the Co-editors' Preface that assumption may have been incorrect--or at least not an assumption I should make without confirmation. I won't make the same assumption again going forward.

At this point I plan to step back a bit myself and wait for guidance from István and Gabi on how we want to move forward. I hope I've successfully conveyed to all three of you, as well as the larger group on here, of my enthusiasm for the idea of a student math journal. I'm ready to support everyone in moving this forward as soon as you are ready. I'm looking forward to any ideas István and Gabi have on this, and I won't assume that their ideas necessarily match those of George unless they confirm so. As George noted in his last circular email, we need to get the ideas of many other group participants out there too.

If Gabi and István need to take their time in responding due to other day to day demands on their time, I understand and can be patient. I will be ready when you are.