ID help requested - Spatula hybrid - Cottonwood Hollow (Larimer)

[John Shenot]

This morning at 10:30 there was a hybrid duck in the big NW pond at Cottonwood Hollow, the pond with the bench and interpretive sign overlooking it. I added photos to my eBird checklist: https://ebird.org/view/checklist/S54174768.

This is probably a common hybrid but I know next to nothing about hybrids. It seems to me that we (birders) just assume that if a bird has familiar traits of two species, it must be a hybrid of those two species. But this individual has traits (I think) of Northern Shoveler, Cinnamon Teal, and Blue-winged Teal. I'd be very appreciative if somebody could explain, offline if necessary, why it is in fact an AxB and not an AxC or BxC. Or perhaps it is unidentifiable. If I knew the answer I wouldn't be asking...

John Shenot

Fort Collins, CO

[Matt Rodgers]

John, that is an interesting duck as I’ve never seen such a hybrid; to me, it looks to be a cross between a Northern Shoveler and Blue-winged Teal as the white crescent is a giveaway that BWT is in the recipe and the bill and mention of the green iridescence speak to traits one would see only in a Northern Shoveler. If the white crescent wasn’t present, I’d be more apt to consider th influence of a cinnamon teal but...Thanks for sharing!

Matt Rodgers - Centennial, CO

[Michael Lester]

Given the deep brownish-red flanks apparently without spotting, I'd go with Northern Shoveler x Cinnamon Teal. Both Cinnamon and Blue-winged Teal X Northern Shoveler hybrids typically show a white crescent and it's my understanding that hybridization with a Cinnamon Teal actually produces a larger crescent than Blue-winged.

Michael Lester

Littleton

On Sun, Mar 24, 2019 at 4:35 PM Matt Rodgers <mattro...@gmail.com> wrote:

John, that is an interesting duck as I’ve never seen such a hybrid; to me, it looks to be a cross between a Northern Shoveler and Blue-winged Teal as the white crescent is a giveaway that BWT is in the recipe and the bill and mention of the green iridescence speak to traits one would see only in a Northern Shoveler. If the white crescent wasn’t present, I’d be more apt to consider th influence of a cinnamon teal but...Thanks for sharing!

Matt Rodgers - Centennial, CO

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[joe.ki...@gmail.com]

I agree with Michael...

The red eye also leads me to think that Cinnamon Teal is in the mix somewhere. Shovelers have yellow eyes and Blue Winged Teal have black eyes, so I don't see where else the red eye could come from. Also, Blue-winged Teal x Shoveler hybrids normally don't have rusty flanks. I would call it a Cinnamon Teal x Northern Shoveler hybrid, but that's just my opinion. I have no idea whether it's possible for all three species to be a part of this birds background.

I love hybrids - thanks for the photo!

Joe Kipper

Fort Collins

[Deborah Carstensen]

I’ve never seen a cinnamon teal with a crescent on its face. I would go towards blue winged teal. 

Sent from my iPhone

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[Nicholas Komar]

Blue-winged Teal can have bright red eyes (see photos on Birds-eye App). Looks good for BWTE x northern shoveler. 

Nick Komar

Fort Collins CO

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[Dave Silverman]

Yep--I agree. B-w TealxShoveler hybrid.

Dave Silverman

 Rye CO

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From: cob...@googlegroups.com <cob...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Nicholas Komar <quet...@comcast.net>
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2019 9:22 AM
To: fiddl...@aol.com
Cc: joe.ki...@gmail.com; Colorado Birds
Subject: Re: [cobirds] Re: ID help requested - Spatula hybrid - Cottonwood Hollow (Larimer)

 

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[David Tønnessen]

I'm curious, are there any good sources or studies saying that CITE x NOSH combo can show a white crescent identical to that of BWTE and what causes that gene expression? If not, I'm not sure what leads away from a BWTE x NOSH ID.

Just my thoughts.

David Tonnessen
Colorado Springs

[Sean Walters]

A little "Googling" came up with a few interesting leads.

https://www.flickr.com/groups/444365@N25/discuss/72157629157445778/

http://www.10000birds.com/hybrid-teals.htm

http://birdhybrids.blogspot.com/2014/04/cinnamon-teal-x-northern-shoveler.html

A nicely done paper that includes photos of a known-parentage, captive Northern Shoveler x Cinnamon Teal.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/324330231_Hybrid_Northern_Shoveler_x_Blue-winged_Teal_on_Schiermonnikoog_Netherlands_in_May_2014_and_identification_and_WP_occurrence

Perhaps others can provide more data, but all of these would suggest John's bird is a Northern Shoveler x Cinnamon Teal. Great bird John!

Sean Walters

Fort Collins, CO

[David Tønnessen]

Intriguing, nice investigation Sean.

A search on eBird's Macaulay Library also shows nearly all male Northern Shoveler x Cinnamon Teal hybrids with a white crescent and rufous breast area (a more understandable trait) like this bird. 

https://ebird.org/media/catalog?taxonCode=x00630&q=Cinnamon%20Teal%20x%20Northern%20Shoveler%20(hybrid)%20-%20Spatula%20cyanoptera%20x%20clypeata

I suppose this could mean one of the two parent species (Northern Shoveler or Cinnamon Teal) has a repressed version (unexpressed gene) of a Blue-winged Teal's white crescent somewhere in its genome, while the other parent species contribute's some transcription factor that initiates that gene's expression. Fascinating.

David Tonnessen

Colorado Springs

[Sean Walters]

Well, taking that idea a step further, I have seen a few male Northern Shovelers with limited "white-face-crescents" (they were barely present in the birds I can recall). Birds of North America states (for Alternate I, male NOSH)

Head and neck black with iridescent green medially. Some birds show a partial white crescent on face similar in shape and location to that found on adult male Blue-winged Teal.

Here are a few examples of birds displaying varying amounts of this

https://ebird.org/view/checklist/S53783523

https://ebird.org/view/checklist/S50151354

https://ebird.org/view/checklist/S43315377

https://ebird.org/view/checklist/S15844033

https://ebird.org/view/checklist/S26835905

Maybe there is a white-face-crescent gene hiding in Northern Shoveler.

[Nicholas Komar]

Check out photos online for Australasian Shoveler. Adult male has a white facial crescent. 

Nick Komar

Fort Collins CO

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